Angle Mort again (1 Viewer)

[Barclaybasher]

So how does not having stickers help?. To me it's straightforward if we go to France and drive in their country we respect their laws. The same on here complaining would soon pipe up if people from other countries came here and ignored our laws.

The question should be - Do stickers help? - so far only the French (authorities) think so

Better surely to encourage cyclists to protect themselves and avoid putting themselves in danger

When I learned to drive almost 60 years ago I was taught 'defensive driving' - the habit stuck - education not stickers

 

[nicholsong]

I agree, the term passenger carrying usually refers to the commercial carriage i.e. buses and coaches; however UK legislation also describes cars etc as passenger carrying so it is easy to see the ambiguity that is created by poorly drafted legislation. Unfortunately the French legislature have a bit of history around hurriedly drafted, ill-thoughtout stuff so this bit comes as no great surprise.It raises the question as to why specify and describe two particular vehicles (freight and public transport) if the legislation is meant to apply to everything over 3500kgs.

Sorry the pdf did not open as per your earlier post, do you have a pdf reader installed (acrobat or similar)?

Firstly, sorry about the the link. I have recently switched from Firefox to Chrome and had not appreciated that downloads appear at the bottom of the screen, not the top-right as in Firefox.

I agree with you analysis. Even UK drafting has become slacker, possibly for too much haste, but also maybe the office of Parliamentary Draughtsmen has been become less attractive to good lawyers, as they are not paid much heed to now . The Politicians rule sway and not enough of them are lawyers, even though as a group they think they have the right to make the law.

Geoff

 

[rosalan]

I did not realise that there were so many wealthy people about, who are willing to test French laws out of curiosity to see if they get fined. More power to your collective elbows.
I shall watch from a distance, hiding behind my several purchased stickers.

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[The Wino]

The question should be - Do stickers help? - so far only the French (authorities) think so

Better surely to encourage cyclists to protect themselves and avoid putting themselves in danger

When I learned to drive almost 60 years ago I was taught 'defensive driving' - the habit stuck - education not stickers

Why not do both but meanwhile be polite and respectful of the laws in other countries?

 

[Barclaybasher]

Why not do both but meanwhile be polite and respectful of the laws in other countries?

Did you read the article and watch the video clip? The cyclist went through a red light at speed killing the pedestrian

Should we put yellow stickers on traffic lights "Cyclists - Stop at Red Light !" - absurd? - but would probably save more lives than stickers on vehicles........

 

[nicholsong]

I did not realise that there were so many wealthy people about, who are willing to test French laws out of curiosity to see if they get fined. More power to your collective elbows.
I shall watch from a distance, hiding behind my several purchased stickers.

What is the fine - and do I get a receipt?

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[Lenny HB]

So how does not having stickers help?. To me it's straightforward if we go to France and drive in their country we respect their laws. The same on here complaining would soon pipe up if people from other countries came here and ignored our laws.

Thousands come here every week breaking our laws, show me a foreign lorry with their headlamps adjusted correctly. Also they break speed limits knowing we don't bother following it up.

 

[jongood]

I did not realise that there were so many wealthy people about, who are willing to test French laws out of curiosity to see if they get fined. More power to your collective elbows.
I shall watch from a distance, hiding behind my several purchased stickers.

I wonder what you will think when you ve been in France a few days and realise that you are one of very few with stickers fitted?

The French are well known for ignoring poorly thought out laws, time will tell but the gendarmes certainly don't seem that concerned about stickers at present.

 

[sallylillian]

I wonder what you will think when you ve been in France a few days and realise that you are one of very few with stickers fitted?

The French are well known for ignoring poorly thought out laws, time will tell but the gendarmes certainly don't seem that concerned about stickers at present.

I think that might be because there is some kind of moratorium period on prosecution Jon, I seem to remember reading that somewhere, maybe I am wrong, someone will jump in with chapter and verse!

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[The Wino]

Thousands come here every week breaking our laws, show me a foreign lorry with their headlamps adjusted correctly. Also they break speed limits knowing we don't bother following it up.

And do you see them as good people because of that?. (By the way I think we ought to police that better).

 

[jongood]

I think that might be because there is some kind of moratorium period on prosecution Jon, I seem to remember reading that somewhere, maybe I am wrong, someone will jump in with chapter and verse!

Im not sure they will while they have the 3500kgs limit, The camping caristes vigourously defend the right of their car to be under the limit - whatever it weighs

 

[rosalan]

I wi

I wonder what you will think when you ve been in France a few days and realise that you are one of very few with stickers fitted?

The French are well known for ignoring poorly thought out laws, time will tell but the gendarmes certainly don't seem that concerned about stickers at present.

l will be an invited visitor with poor understanding of French but as a simple matter of economics, the cost of the stickers will be well below even a minimal fine should I be singled out for such treatment. The same goes for Critaire. London has anti pollution zones, so why not France.

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[jongood]

I wi

l will be an invited visitor with poor understanding of French but as a simple matter of economics, the cost of the stickers will be well below even a minimal fine should I be singled out for such treatment. The same goes for Critaire. London has anti pollution zones, so why not France.

I'm not suggesting that we trample all over their laws, but it does seem a bit odd that we're observing laws that our hosts are choosing to ignore. But if you're that keen and not worried about the economics then will you be paying classe 3 tolls?

 

[gus-lopez]

Will this type of cyclist take any notice anyway?............

Cyclist jailed after Tower Hamlets hit-and-run death

Peter McCombie died eight days after the crash from traumatic head injuries.

www.bbc.co.uk

Cyclists have to slow down and ride according to conditions - for their own safety and the safety of others

when will he be deported though?

 

[gus-lopez]

London has anti pollution zones, so why not France.

True but France ,like Germany & other EU states, requires ALL drivers to register for the emission zones whereas the lazy UK .gov use anpr linked to the dvla database for locals whilst the foreigners are expected to know they need to actually register , then if they attempt to do so are met with an abortion of a website that changes from one page to another &, for those who are english as a 1st language are still unintelligible gibberish.
Additionally when you ring you are answered by "placaters" who then have to themselves ring faceless half -wits to obtain answers & who have no knowledge of each individual countries registration documents & when faced with facsimiles showing what needs to be entered for different types of vehicle, think that Everyting for every vehicle has to be on it.

Or they then de-register your accont even though you are legitimately registered. They then want you to re-register , even though you have a legal & open account which you can access even though they state it does not exist?
When legally challenged suddely reinstate the account complete with all 4 different vehicle details , that previously had " been cleared & destroyed" . Without even an acknowledgement or apology.
They really are scum & useless ones.

Also when first introduced it was totally illegal by discriminating against foreigners. UnFortunately the Uk chose to leave whilst I was in the process of submitting a complaint to the UK & EU over the discriminatory system.

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[jongood]

Does anyone else agree that Angles Mortes sticker is not a particularly good design? At a glance its not at all obvious what its for, it just a lot of yellow with quite a small truck/ bus on it and the legend. Imo it would be a lot more effective if it was landscape not portrait and it was more symbolic, maybe a squashed cyclist or pedestrian and a pool of blood, or a gravestone or why. Any of you feeling artistic?

 

[Scotch mist]

Aussies know how to make you understand regardless of language

 

[rosalan]

Does anyone else agree that Angles Mortes sticker is not a particularly good design? At a glance its not at all obvious what its for, it just a lot of yellow with quite a small truck/ bus on it and the legend.

My stickers have a smart looking Motorhome image. When all three are applied they enhance the decals making the whole look a little like a wall covered in graffiti: Nice!

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[busby]

Does anyone else agree that Angles Mortes sticker is not a particularly good design? At a glance its not at all obvious what its for, it just a lot of yellow with quite a small truck/ bus on it and the legend. Imo it would be a lot more effective if it was landscape not portrait and it was more symbolic, maybe a squashed cyclist or pedestrian and a pool of blood, or a gravestone or why. Any of you feeling artistic?

Heaven forbid,,it may upset someone...not as much as being killed though.But honestly you must be absolutely brain dead or just stupid to cycle down the side of a vehicle bigger than you with obvious limited visibility. BUSBY.

 

[The Wino]

Just thinking if theres this much angst about a couple of stickers what the reaction would be if instead they required extra mirrors and cameras to reduce blind spots!

 

[jongood]

Just thinking if theres this much angst about a couple of stickers what the reaction would be if instead they required extra mirrors and cameras to reduce blind spots!

This is what the idiot Khan is doing

Transport for London DVS and PSS

dvs2020.org

As there is nothing available OE and its notoriously difficult to get aftermarket systems registered - provincial firms are taking the decision whether to run 12 tonners just for London or just stop going there - quite a few are picking the second option, I was in a food factory yesterday with 100 ( mostly new) trucks, I didnt see one with a DVS camera.

The other obvious point is that however many cameras and mirrors you put on a vehicle the driver can only look at one at a time.

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[AJM2]

Just thinking if theres this much angst about a couple of stickers what the reaction would be if instead they required extra mirrors and cameras to reduce blind spots!

Personally I could understand the logic for that, although in my MH I don’t have any blind spots because of the mirrors/cameras I have. I do have a problem complying with this law (but I will) when it still depends on the mental capacity of the cyclist (who if he/she has put themselves in a position to see some of those stickers is clearly stupid anyway). Just don’t know where all of this will end.

 

[nicholsong]

True but France ,like Germany & other EU states, requires ALL drivers to register for the emission zones whereas the lazy UK .gov use anpr linked to the dvla database for locals whilst the foreigners are expected to know they need to actually register , then if they attempt to do so are met with an abortion of a website that changes from one page to another &, for those who are english as a 1st language are still unintelligible gibberish.
Additionally when you ring you are answered by "placaters" who then have to themselves ring faceless half -wits to obtain answers & who have no knowledge of each individual countries registration documents & when faced with facsimiles showing what needs to be entered for different types of vehicle, think that Everyting for every vehicle has to be on it.

Or they then de-register your accont even though you are legitimately registered. They then want you to re-register , even though you have a legal & open account which you can access even though they state it does not exist?
When legally challenged suddely reinstate the account complete with all 4 different vehicle details , that previously had " been cleared & destroyed" . Without even an acknowledgement or apology.
They really are scum & useless ones.

Also when first introduced it was totally illegal by discriminating against foreigners. UnFortunately the Uk chose to leave whilst I was in the process of submitting a complaint to the UK & EU over the discriminatory system.

Are the ANPRcameras linked now to foreign registration databases? I.E if you do not register can LEZ find you?

Even if they find the 'Registered Owner/Keeper' will they be able to enforce a fine in that jurisdiction, without proving who was deriving?

Seems it could be a nightmare, so I wonder whether they would bother?

Geoff

 

[Gill and steve]

I wonder what you will think when you ve been in France a few days and realise that you are one of very few with stickers fitted?

The French are well known for ignoring poorly thought out laws, time will tell but the gendarmes certainly don't seem that concerned about stickers at present.

We are here in France now we have our stickers on and last night the 2 other vans here both clearly over 3.5t also had stickers on. One was French the other Belgian.

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[Speve]

This is taken from Reflecto web site and it appears to say only use them when needed in cities not on motorways

Truck Sign Blind Spot „Angles Morts“ France

When entering a city centre in France , lorries and their trailers are required to show a sign that make other road users aware of the driver‘s blind spot (in French: angles morts ). Especially when turning right, the...

www.reflecto.shop

Product information "Truck Sign Blind Spot „Angles Morts“ France"
When entering a city centre in France, lorries and their trailers are required to show a sign that make other road users aware of the driver‘s blind spot (in French: angles morts). Especially when turning right, the driver’s view is considerably impaired and many accidents have occurred because of this blind angle.
This new rule applies from January 1st, 2021 and is based on the French traffic act (Code de la route) R.313-32-1. Our truck signs conform to the new French law regarding design and colour scheme.
If you need to equip your camper van, caravan or motorhome with angles morts signs, the bus version is the right choice for you, according to the French regulation.
Please note our application and care instructions under the tab Datasheets. They contain vital information, especially for the reusable adhesive or magnetic signs.

Important notes on the reusable signs with microsuction structure on the rear​

The adhesive reusable film does not adhere to the substrate as strongly as the magnetic film. Therefore, it is very important to make sure the surface is completely clean and smooth before the application of the slightly adhesive sign. Otherwise, there is the risk of losing the sign on the road. It is also recommended to use the sign only when needed and to avoid any trips with the signs attached when they actually are not required (e. g. on motorways

 

[Fulham Dave]

We are here in France now we have our stickers on and last night the 2 other vans here both clearly over 3.5t also had stickers on. One was French the other Belgian.

Same here Gill and Steve, there have been 3 MH on this site displaying them, 2 French and a large Belgian Carthago which is still here

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

extra mirrors and cameras to reduce blind spots!

Already got them

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[Larby]

On the site I am on, 2 German vehicles and the compliant Englishman (me).
The French don’t bother.

 

[Landy Andy]

We noticed a few French vans with them, but they were clearly above the 3500. BIG boys, so no surprise. Plenty of German vans with them, and no GB with them. Us being the only GB van we saw.

 

[gus-lopez]

(By the way I think we ought to police that better).

Steady on !!

Does anyone else agree that Angles Mortes sticker is not a particularly good design? At a glance its not at all obvious what its for, it just a lot of yellow with quite a small truck/ bus on it and the legend. Imo it would be a lot more effective if it was landscape not portrait and it was more symbolic, maybe a squashed cyclist or pedestrian and a pool of blood, or a gravestone or why. Any of you feeling artistic?

If I didn't know from here what they were actually meant to be for I would honestly have no idea. Why would a cyclist? If a cyclist has got himself in to a position where he is reading them why would they even think it applied to them ?

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