Angle Mort again (1 Viewer)

[Coastal Cruiser.]

IMHO Marine Le Pen will sort it out next year

Any ideas if she likes us?

Chris excluded of course

 

[Barclaybasher]

Anything that may help save a life has got to be good. We’ve had quite a lot of cyclists killed by HGV lorries in recent years locally and from the news reports none seemed to be the fault of the cyclist. I accept I personally would not have liked to have displayed them on our old van but the law is the law, we choose to disregard it and have to suffer any consequence. Spain have introduced new laws for similar reasons & here in the UK the coming new laws will be the larger the size indicates whose responsible, unless proven otherwise, so we’re all going down similar routes it seems.

From the Ministry of Transport:

Pedal cyclists There were 100 pedal cyclist fatalities on the roads in 2019, very similar to the level seen since 2009. Any changes since that point are most likely a result of natural variation and cannot be attributed to underlying causes.

The number of pedal cyclists killed or seriously injured in Great Britain has increased by 8% between 2009 (4,098) to 2019 (4,433) (using the series adjusted for changes in severity reporting). This is partly explained by an increase in pedal cyclist traffic in Great Britain of 16% from 2009 to 2019 (3.0 to 3.5 billion vehicle miles). Overall pedal cyclist casualties decreased by 4% between 2018 and 2019.


How many lives or injuries would have been prevented by stickers on vehicles?

Would make more sense to prosecute (if that were possible) cyclists that place themselves alongside vehicles at lights and junctions.
.....or insist that cyclists wear hi-viz vests and helmets, stop using the roads as 'training' - going flat out regardless of conditions, putting themselves and others in danger...................just slow down !

 

[Brains]

From the Ministry of Transport:

Pedal cyclists There were 100 pedal cyclist fatalities on the roads in 2019, very similar to the level seen since 2009. Any changes since that point are most likely a result of natural variation and cannot be attributed to underlying causes.

The number of pedal cyclists killed or seriously injured in Great Britain has increased by 8% between 2009 (4,098) to 2019 (4,433) (using the series adjusted for changes in severity reporting). This is partly explained by an increase in pedal cyclist traffic in Great Britain of 16% from 2009 to 2019 (3.0 to 3.5 billion vehicle miles). Overall pedal cyclist casualties decreased by 4% between 2018 and 2019.


How many lives or injuries would have been prevented by stickers on vehicles?

Would make more sense to prosecute (if that were possible) cyclists that place themselves alongside vehicles at lights and junctions.
.....or insist that cyclists wear hi-viz vests and helmets, stop using the roads as 'training' - going flat out regardless of conditions, putting themselves and others in danger...................just slow down !

Or educate the drivers.

Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and France all have miles cycled per head of population way ahead of the UK.
Yet, with the exception of Germany (at under 400), all have others have cycle fatalities in double figures per year.

Even if you account for greater population, more crowded roads, cycling provision that is 30 years behind neighbouring countries and because of that there are less cyclists in the UK, the UK figures are embarrassingly high.

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[EuroTrotters]

Some websites say visitors need then others say they don't. But what is common is they are only required in urban areas.
The French tend to assume all Motorhomes are 3500kg so I'm not too worried I won't be fitting them to my 4500kg van.

So very french

 

[EuroTrotters]

I was overtaken by some Spanish ciclistas today, 34c . I had full a/c on my car. I don’t know how they do it.

 

[jongood]

Or educate the drivers.

Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and France all have miles cycled per head of population way ahead of the UK.
Yet, with the exception of Germany (at under 400), all have others have cycle fatalities in double figures per year.

Even if you account for greater population, more crowded roads, cycling provision that is 30 years behind neighbouring countries and because of that there are less cyclists in the UK, the UK figures are embarrassingly high.

Better cyclepaths would definitely help, as would requiring registration plates for bicycles and banning earphones for all road users including pedestrians.

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[Poutie57]

I’ve been in France for 9wks and have seen lots of Motorhome’s with the stickers on, I have actually bought magnetised ones but the rear I’ve had to stick on with double sided tape. I do agree that they look ugly and cyclists will over a period of time become blind to them but why should you stick your finger up to the law and what would your opinion be if Britain made it law and foreign Motorhome’s flouted it!

 

[Paul Wilkins]

If you have a warning sign and whoever ignores that warning sign, then you're off the hook if they mash themselves while undertaking you. They had been warned.

Same goes for any other warning sign.

 

[Nanniemate]

The original ones were truck or bus - of which the bus one was to be used on motorhomes. Some joker on eBay seems to have produced his own version with a motorhome on it.

<Broken link removed>

this joker has turned over in the region of £2000 I am not sure he is as daft as you portray (wish I'd thought of it )

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[Paul Wilkins]

this joker has turned over in the region of £2000 I am not sure he is as daft as you portray (wish I'd thought of it )

He also put his price up the 6th July.

 

[jongood]

If you have a warning sign and whoever ignores that warning sign, then you're off the hook if they mash themselves while undertaking you. They had been warned.

Same goes for any other warning sign.

So If you're in a French town with your stickers in the correct place, turn right and mash a cyclist, you would expect to be exonerated?

 

[Dave n Marisa]

I had a discussion with my friend, a motorhomer, ex HGV driver, from the UK who has lived in France for 30 years. He says that they don't now and haven't had a C1 type licence, all have to pass a test to drive over 3500kgs, which is another reason most French owned motorhomes don't have the stickers. His view is don't bother as you will stick out more to be stopped, higher toll fees and some places have 3500kg weight limits.

I also hate the way the stickers look, but have them fitted at the moment. Over the years in various vehicles I have been stopped quite a few times. On my trip to the Dordogne and back I think there is a good possibility of being stopped especially after brexit. Don't fancy a large fine slapped on me. Don't care much about additional tolls, as we will be avoiding them anyway.

Still considering taking them back off after reading consensus of opinion on here .

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[Paul Wilkins]

So If you're in a French town with your stickers in the correct place, turn right and mash a cyclist, you would expect to be exonerated?

If you see a sign that says 'Warning Uneven Surface' and fall over, would you expect to be able to get any compensation?
Of course I don't THINK ITS OK to mash a cyclist - however, if you go around ignoring warning signs then you should be prepared for bad things to happen to you.

 

[Paulypaul]

We were advised by the RHA that there has been a new directive introduced in the highway code which basically states that if a cyclist or pedestrian are involved in an accident with a hgv the automatic conclusion should be that it is the hgv drivers fault as he should be more aware of the hazards posed by cyclists and pedestrians, as he is a professional driver? And they wonder why there is a driver shortage?

I can't find the RHA memo but the press reported on it too:

"Car and lorry drivers will automatically face the blame for accidents with cyclists due to sweeping changes planned for the Highway Code, campaigners have claimed.

The Government is rewriting the official guide to give cyclists more protection on the road"

What a load of.......

 

[jongood]

If you see a sign that says 'Warning Uneven Surface' and fall over, would you expect to be able to get any compensation?
Of course I don't THINK ITS OK to mash a cyclist - however, if you go around ignoring warning signs then you should be prepared for bad things to happen to you.

So given my scenario, do you think that having the sticker fitted would make any difference to what would happen next?

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[Paul Wilkins]

We were advised by the RHA that there has been a new directive introduced in the highway code which basically states that if a cyclist or pedestrian are involved in an accident with a hgv the automatic conclusion should be that it is the hgv drivers fault as he should be more aware of the hazards posed by cyclists and pedestrians, as he is a professional driver? And they wonder why there is a driver shortage?

I can't find the RHA memo but the press reported on it too:

"Car and lorry drivers will automatically face the blame for accidents with cyclists due to sweeping changes planned for the Highway Code, campaigners have claimed.

The Government is rewriting the official guide to give cyclists more protection on the road"

What a load of.......

How could you be 'more aware' of something you can't see? Do you now always assume there is some pillock sitting in your blind spot and never turn left or right ?

 

[Paul Wilkins]

So given my scenario, do you think that having the sticker fitted would make any difference to what would happen next?

I'm not even going to bother...

 

[AJM2]

If you want to see how stupid cyclists can be, try Richmond Park on a Sunday. Luckily for motorists they tend to have accidents with each other now. You’ll realise that no amount of stickers will make a difference to certain members of the Lycra brigade.

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[Nanniemate]

If the sticker makes a cyclist aware that they are in the danger area so they can reposition themselves surely it has to be a good thing

Hanson’s distribution manager Ray Govier said: “Around 15 per cent of cyclist fatalities in the UK – and 10 per cent of pedestrian ones – involve a heavy goods vehicle and a disproportionate number of these are construction vehicles

Improving road user safety at London Bike Show

Visitors to the London Bike Show at Excel in London were able to see the huge strides being made by the construction industry to improve vulnerable road user safety.Hanson supported the CLOCS (Construction Logistics and Cyclist Safety) stand at the show, which featured a number of construction...

www.hanson.co.uk

 

[jongood]

I'm not even going to bother...

I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to explore the angle of what difference having a sticker fitted would make?
I regularly drive trucks, and ride bicycles, so can appreciate it from both angles and there are sure are bad apples in both barrels . I would agree wholeheartedly that there are too many collisions involving cyclists and its usually the cyclist that comes off worse but it doesnt seem to stop the reckless element among them from ignoring the basic rules of the road.

So do you think they would take any notice of the sticker? and if you were making a legal turn and something happened would having the sticker fitted make any difference to your liability?

 

[huck999]

A question: Angles Mortes stickers are to notify pedestrians and cyclists of a vehicles blind spot. I have a 360 camera system and so, in effect, no blind spots. Will I still need these useless stickers?

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

Would it not be better to have stickers saying “if you can read this your ed “

 

[Nanniemate]

I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to explore the angle of what difference having a sticker fitted would make?
I regularly drive trucks, and ride bicycles, so can appreciate it from both angles and there are sure are bad apples in both barrels . I would agree wholeheartedly that there are too many collisions involving cyclists and its usually the cyclist that comes off worse but it doesnt seem to stop the reckless element among them from ignoring the basic rules of the road.

So do you think they would take any notice of the sticker? and if you were making a legal turn and something happened would having the sticker fitted make any difference to your liability?

If a sticker reduces the risk of having to attend an inquest, I'd choose a sticker every time Its all about reducing the risk not illuminating it, as there is no remedy for stupid, and if the sticker is there you have given the naïve the opportunity to react and stupid the opportunity to ignore
It just another aid to reduce risks much like a reversing camera and lots of drivers seem happy to attach these

 

[SpeedyDux]

Never mind reckless cyclists, I see an increasing number of e-scooterists mingling with the traffic (probably illegally and with no helmets either).

No rules seem to apply to them at all. More roadkill waiting to happen.

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[Clarky]

A question: Angles Mortes stickers are to notify pedestrians and cyclists of a vehicles blind spot. I have a 360 camera system and so, in effect, no blind spots. Will I still need these useless stickers?

According to the French regulations that I’ve seen 360° cameras make no difference. You still need the stickers.

Richard.

 

[jongood]

If a sticker reduces the risk of having to attend an inquest, I'd choose a sticker every time Its all about reducing the risk not illuminating it, as there is no remedy for stupid, and if the sticker is there you have given the naïve the opportunity to react and stupid the opportunity to ignore
It just another aid to reduce risks much like a reversing camera and lots of drivers seem happy to attach these

But the question remains, will those who ignore the presence of a hulking great truck gain anything from a sticker? Will it even save one life? Me I doubt it but I will be watching the cycling casualty figures for France and London with great interest.

 

[nicholsong]

Maybe there are 2 threads running, but I posted asking if anyone knows of the definition of 'urban' in this law.

Does it mean anywhere that town/village 50/30kph limits apply?

If not, what is the definition?

Maybe France Residents can explain.

Geoff

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[Brains]

We were advised by the RHA that there has been a new directive introduced in the highway code which basically states that if a cyclist or pedestrian are involved in an accident with a hgv the automatic conclusion should be that it is the hgv drivers fault as he should be more aware of the hazards posed by cyclists and pedestrians, as he is a professional driver? And they wonder why there is a driver shortage?

I can't find the RHA memo but the press reported on it too:

"Car and lorry drivers will automatically face the blame for accidents with cyclists due to sweeping changes planned for the Highway Code, campaigners have claimed.

The Government is rewriting the official guide to give cyclists more protection on the road"

What a load of.......

This has been true in many countries for years.

In Holland it it almost impossible for a cyclist to be at fault with a vehicle collision.
The result is the number of cyclists killed per year is in double figures.
In the UK the number has a comma in it

Who do you think is correct ?

 

[phase3begins]

Perhaps we should have another thread on the need for stupid number plates or ugly vehicle lights

 

[Clarky]

Maybe there are 2 threads running, but I posted asking if anyone knows of the definition of 'urban' in this law.

Does it mean anywhere that town/village 50/30kph limits apply?

If not, what is the definition?

Maybe France Residents can explain.

Geoff

I thought the same as you so had a look at Wikipedia :-

Urban area (France) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It would appear that only very large towns/cities are classed as 'Urban' but it’s really not that clear to me.

Richard.

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