Help needed! Broken down in 35C France... Turbocharger maybe?? (3 Viewers)

[Peter and Julie]

***UPDATE: THE SAGA CONTINUES***

Good morning FUNsters. Hope you're all well and had a good night.

Posting an update as to how we've got on from last night until now. The skinny is that the problem is not resolved, so if anyone has any further ideas following the below they would again be really appreciated.

1. Decent night's kip in the garage forecourt
2. Got seen by the mechanic at 08:10 - pleasantly surprised
3. Conveyed that perhaps the missing hose was the reniflad de carter - crankcase breather - attaching to "the black box", showing the mechanic pictures of same/similar engines kindly shared by Ninjabob and Just smiffy
4. Van goes up on the ramp - the mechanics re-attach the loose hose to the black box, €87 and some paperwork later - off I merrily go.

When I get to the first 8% incline - of which there are many, I, unfortunately, find the same problem is persisting.

After speaking to RAC European Assistance, they currently expect it will be hard to find a mechanic to reassess the problem due to the holidays, this may take some days. At present we are not sure. The garage that completed the failed repair also cannot fit us in for 15 days to run further diagnostics.

As such, this may have to be a case of find a way to repair myself come hell or high water. Hence this post.

Firstly, to have another go at describing the problem when driving:

- On the flat I can gain speed, moderately less effectively than usual, with my typical gear changes on the nose of 20/30/40 mph to conserve fuel.
- Uphill - I gradually lose speed, ultimately managing 20mph/30kph on an 8% incline in 3rd gear without losing speed.
- Sound - typically when giving the accelerator some welly, a reassuring roar comes out (I think from the turbo). Instead, I the sound is like a gentle hiss.

In relation to a previous comment it definitely does has a turbo. Helpfully I have found one of the same engines that is in the van on ebay -<Broken link removed>.

As a recap, yesterday we got these pictures of similar engines. The crankcase breather needed to reattach to the bottom left of "The Black Box". After looking around and having a good feel, I couldn't find any connection in that location to reattach the hose to.

The garage, seemingly also couldn't as they attached the hose to another piece of hose, and attached that to a separate point on the black box. To clearly describe this, I have sketched out what they did.

View attachment 411425 What they did

The red hose is the loose hose. We think this should've connected to Point B. Point B is really obscured/inaccessible - assuming it in fact does exist! What they noticed (they showed me) was that point C was missing a hose. Explained that a piece was missing, and proceed to make and fit a further piece of hose connecting the first hose, via a new hose, to Point C.

Point C is clearly visible (also missing a hose) on the Engine pic from eBay below.

View attachment 411424 Engine pic from eBay

In Engine pic 2 below, a hose is present - connected to Point C - going somewhere out of shot.

View attachment 411423 Engine pic 2

Now sat here in the shade of an abandoned shop, my best diagnosis is that:

1.The Black Box blew hoses of BOTH Point B and Point C in my diagram when the problem occurred yesterday
2. I now have a hose that should be connected to Point B, incorrectly connected via another hose to Point C

Given this, what I now need to work out (assuming this issue is the full extent of my driveability problem), is:

3. Where Point B is. Perhaps I lost a component on the road, but for love nor now money can I find the place where that hose should attach.
4. Where the hose that should be connected to Point C is - and where it connects to

I'll keep you all abreast of updates as I continue to try to solve the problem - just writing this down has helped actually - but once again any and all suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks FUNsters and all the best,
YoungDave

I would be taking the offer of parking, with another funster!

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Check out where royw is and take up his offer of a pit. Another pair of eyes might help you. Certainly can't make it worse.

 

[old-mo]

Just grasping at straws on this one ... but...

Some one mentioned that the black box was a sort of filter contraption...

Could it be that this box is so full of gunge and shite that when the pipe is fitted on and whatever goes through the pipe to the black box cannot get through or into the box ... so keeps blowing the pipe off..

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[PeteH]

RAC assist did offer to relay my R-V from Spain, when I "lost" a cylinder. But they could not get to it for over a week, as it was running on 7 with one Injector blanked off. I elected to take it gently to Bilbao , when we arrived in UK It was low loaded to West Midland For Repair.

 

[YoungDave]

royw thanks so much. It really sounds like a perfect solution but yes we are 200kms away, we were headed towards Switzerland (but we also had an engine that works!). Let me have a think and see if there is some way we could get to you.

Peter and Julie - I think you're right - there is AC/DC 's offer of friends 40 kms away to consider too

 

[yodeli]

YoungDave Heck , I thought you were sorted for good this morning. Why didn't you call me back?
Unfortunatly you are far away from my place! The worst thing is everything is going to be closed in August , but if you tell us where you are now I can make a search and call garages to see if one will stay open.
Let me know.... you know how to do it!

EDIT : Just seen where you are heading to

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[jockaneezer]

That "black box" looks like a "catch can", crankcase fumes come from the rocker cover breather pipe on the top left and enter the box, there will be a baffle system inside the box that will allow any suspended oil to coalesce and run back to the crank via the bottom pipe and the top right hand pipe should connect to the air intake system to take care of any fumes that will feed back through the engine ?
Without seeing it, I don't understand why the box's bottom pipe fitting is missing, as it's clearly there on the photos of other engines ?
I'm wondering if the lack of power could be something to do with a leak from the turbo pipework and looking at the condition of those other pipes (oily and non standard jubilee clips) it's not inconceivable for an elderly, oily rubber pipe to split or blow off ? I'd be taking a look at the intake system from the turbo/intercooler/manifold. I think the loose pipe you have found needs adressing, but could also be a red herring as I can't see it causing a power loss as such ?

 

[WJACC]

As an alternative we are due west of you, perhaps 150 kms. We have a local English fully trained mechanic who works on our car & van when required. No pit but concrete hard standing. I'll contact him if you wish to see if he is available.

 

[gus-lopez]

Instead, I the sound is like a gentle hiss.

It sounds like you have a leak on a turbo pipe somewhere.
I'd take up one of these offers .

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[YoungDave]

Okay so I think I found the problem. Part of the turbo system coming out of the engine had come loose - reattached and now I have drive again! Thanks jockaneezer your mention of the red herring, and your and gus-lopez 's mention of other connections was right on.

So I am very happy about this and can move freely, my next question is how much do I need to worry about the pipes around the catch can - how much of a worry is this - particularly with the pipes now in the wrong place?

Thanks all,
YoungDave

 

[WJACC]

If you're mobile again and heading east, when we had a problem a couple of years ago we found a small fiat garage at Dunieres, 43220. Mother sits in the office, son is the mechanic. Very helpful. 0471668202, if you feel you might want to have someone check things over. Glad you are making progress.

 

[YoungDave]

Thank you very much WJACC that's a very helpful suggestion!

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[gus-lopez]

Could it be that the small pipe was already hanging loose? & that the plastic fitting on the box had broken off a long while back? I

 

[YoungDave]

YoungDave Heck , I thought you were sorted for good this morning. Why didn't you call me back?
Unfortunatly you are far away from my place! The worst thing is everything is going to be closed in August , but if you tell us where you are now I can make a search and call garages to see if one will stay open.
Let me know.... you know how to do it!

EDIT : Just seen where you are heading to

I thought I was sorted for good too yodeli - at least until we started climbing the first hills out of Ussel!

We have taken a steady 20 min drive towards the mountains to escape (some) of the heat, and until some opinions come through as to the extent of the problem with the catch can

 

[YoungDave]

Could it be that the small pipe was already hanging loose? & that the plastic fitting on the box had broken off a long while back? I

I had thought about this gus-lopez and maybe - they could be seperate issues at seperate times. I am now wondering if I should be disconnecting the pipes as connected by the garage because it sounds like fumes need to escape, and now they will not be able to. Unless this is a different type of catch can - for some reason - and so the garage have actually done it right in reconnecting

Unless anyone tells me it's a really bad idea to keep driving, I think I will keep heading east and try WJACC 's Fiat garage for a once over en route. It's c.200kms away.

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[jockaneezer]

Going back over your pictures, I'd say, by the amount of oil that's coating the engine, that the return pipe from the sump has been off for a little while, have you checked your oil level recently as if the breather isn't set up right, you could have been "forcing" oil out of the sump ?
I would still be keen to get it to a garage or at least to someone with a mechanic's eye just to suss out the box setup and get it tidied up. I don't think the way the box is piped up now is a good idea as the crankcase pressure has nowhere to go if there definitely isn't an outlet at the bottom of the box (but I reckon there will be !) it'll be hiding behind the black cylindrical thing in front of the box which is the starter motor. To the right of that, you can just glimpse the rust coloured engine's ring gear, as there is a crescent shaped guard missing from the bell housing that might be worth having replaced too at some point.
I'd say it should be ok to drive, so long as you keep an eye on your oil level.
Bon chance !

 

[gus-lopez]

have you checked your oil level recently as if the breather isn't set up right, you could have been "forcing" oil out of the sump ?

On the smaller 1900cc& the 1900T/D there is a stepped outlet on the pipe from the sump with a felt filter inside to ensure only fumes are going up that tube to the air filter. That engine obviously has an inbetween box that drops out oil somehow?

 

[tacr2man]

Due to emissions regs quite a lot of engines have a closed loop breather system now , this requires a oil separator (the box mentioned in this case) somewhere in system . If a pipe comes loose in can affect the mixture on petrol vehicles but on diesels just means messy engine.

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[YoungDave]

Thanks jockaneezer - really appreciate the advice. I'll the hoses disconnected right away.

I agree it is most likely behind there - just really can't even feel it... don't suppose demounting and remounting the starter motor is a feasible undertaking ?

I've had a slow oil leak from the engine for some time (one bottle of oil still going after 6 months regularly checking/topping up). I took it to a mechanic and he said for the rate it's losing oil it's not worth paying him - just to keep an eye on the level. I have no idea where the 'top right' hose is or is supposed to go. But I guess if that's just gases it's not too much of a worry and I can get the fiat place to sort.

 

[YoungDave]

gus-lopez & tacr2man thanks for the further info - good & useful to know.

 

[WJACC]

Best check the one I mentioned is open, it's an old fashioned garage so likely to have old fashioned holidays, ie August... All of it!!!

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Can Wildbill throw any light on the problem, thought he had a Talbot that he works on a bit.

 

[YoungDave]

WJACC - okay thank you - good to know I will certainly check!

 

[tonyidle]

Here's a picture of how they work. All Diesel engine breather systems from that era are very similar:

It might help you decide which hose goes where.

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[yodeli]

Best check the one I mentioned is open, it's an old fashioned garage so likely to have old fashioned holidays, ie August... All of it!!!

Give me the number of the garage (or its name and town) I will check for Dave and will also tell them if open in August (hummm!!!)they are going to have a client soon.

 

[The Dotties]

This thread goes to show why belonging to fun is a god send in situations like this.
Funster has big problem.
A large number of other funsters get involved with good, solid advice including several offers of work areas.
Top notch translation services offered.
And Young Dave thanked everybody involved rather than just disappearing.
Long live MHF

 

[Raul]

Tonyidle beat me to it. The box sometimes we call it oil scrubber and is a tree way. If the hoses are in wrong order Attached, it will pump gases into crank case. This will push the dipstic up if pressure rises. The one that directs the cleaned gasses to the intake, is the culprit for blow off hoses. It gums up to the point that is enough pressure for a week point to fail. I had dealt with this breeder on transit and trafic.

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[Jake Royd]

Yes, MHF forever!
If I ever have problem whilst out and about I can rely on MHF members to help.

 

[yodeli]

And Young Dave thanked everybody involved rather than just disappearing.

YESSSS !