Is it really necessary for motorhome electrics to be so complicated? (1 Viewer)

[life in the slow lane]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated? I don't need to know what the voltage of my battery is or what current I'm drawing and why do I need to operate 3 switches to turn on a light and need to reset everything after the engine has been running. What would be wrong with having everything permanently connected with maybe the provision of a master switch for periods of none use.

 

[jonandshell]

You do actually need to know your battery voltage.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated? I don't need to know what the voltage of my battery is or what current I'm drawing and why do I need to operate 3 switches to turn on a light and need to reset everything after the engine has been running. What would be wrong with having everything permanently connected with maybe the provision of a master switch for periods of none use.

I think it depends on the particular motorhome as to whether it's perceived to be complicated or not.

I do basically have one master switch (the 12v one) which makes everything work once switched on and I don't need to reset anything after the engine has been running, it all works the same. The only thing I do need to do is switch the fridge from 12v to gas, and those with auto fridges won't even need to do this.

With regard to voltage/current meters, these are handy for those of us who predominately use the vans off grid so that we can see the state of charge of the batteries and whether they need properly charging up.

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[Ivory55]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated? I don't need to know what the voltage of my battery is or what current I'm drawing and why do I need to operate 3 switches to turn on a light and need to reset everything after the engine has been running. What would be wrong with having everything permanently connected with maybe the provision of a master switch for periods of none use.

12volt black magic, I feel your pain. Haha

 

[Richard n Ann]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated? I don't need to know what the voltage of my battery is or what current I'm drawing and why do I need to operate 3 switches to turn on a light and need to reset everything after the engine has been running. What would be wrong with having everything permanently connected with maybe the provision of a master switch for periods of none use.

You don't have to look at the meters if you don't want to ours pretty much looks after its self anyway.

 

[Lenny HB]

The habitation electrics are dead simple compared to the electronics on the engine.
I leave my control panel turned on all the time unless we are away and leaving the van at home for a few weeks.
Absolutely essential to know battery volts and current used, monitor mine all the time.

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[life in the slow lane]

Thank you for your replies, I will try to answer each of you from my perspective.
Jonandshell: I know that a volt meter will tell me the state of charge of my battery but if I'm wild camping I am not in a position to react to the information. If the lights go dim I know the battery is low and I'll go to bed early, by the time I get up the solar panel will have put in enough power to flush the loo (fist priority), and run the pump to make a cup of coffee ( second priority), knowledge of the voltage is surplus information.
Stoppybird: The simpler a system is the less there is to go wrong and if it does malfunction diagnosis is much quicker (ask anyone who has watched an auto electrician struggling with modern electronics).

Ivory55: Not exactly magic as I have workmen in a very high tech business but I've seen the light (no pun intended)

Richard and Ann; Exactly my point if you don't need to look at it why have the extra complication of having it there in the fist place and of course the extra cost.

 

[life in the slow lane]

Lenny HB: Does monitoring the voltage and current give you anymore power or just stop you using it when you want to.

 

[Podney]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated? I don't need to know what the voltage of my battery is or what current I'm drawing and why do I need to operate 3 switches to turn on a light and need to reset everything after the engine has been running. What would be wrong with having everything permanently connected with maybe the provision of a master switch for periods of none use.

Sadly,I can't answer your question,but,like you I find electrics confusing. There is some consolation in the fact that others on here who are quite "techie" also get in a pickle.
When I have mastered the art,I shall write a guide.....The simple mans guide to Moho electrics......and maybe make my fortune...or maybe not.
Or has it already been written??????????????????

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[Richard n Ann]

Thank you for your replies, I will try to answer each of you from my perspective.
Jonandshell: I know that a volt meter will tell me the state of charge of my battery but if I'm wild camping I am not in a position to react to the information. If the lights go dim I know the battery is low and I'll go to bed early, by the time I get up the solar panel will have put in enough power to flush the loo (fist priority), and run the pump to make a cup of coffee ( second priority), knowledge of the voltage is surplus information.
Stoppybird: The simpler a system is the less there is to go wrong and if it does malfunction diagnosis is much quicker (ask anyone who has watched an auto electrician struggling with modern electronics).

Ivory55: Not exactly magic as I have workmen in a very high tech business but I've seen the light (no pun intended)

Richard and Ann; Exactly my point if you don't need to look at it why have the extra complication of having it there in the fist place and of course the extra cost.

You don't need to look at or even use lots of things, but they are good to have because the majority of people probably do want them.

 

[funflair]

Lenny HB: Does monitoring the voltage and current give you anymore power or just stop you using it when you want to.

It might stop you using too much and killing your batteries, I know I would be lost without the information, and yes based on the information given I can decide wether or not to run something like do I run the inverter to charge XYZ and do I leave the fridge on Auto so it runs of batteries for half a day while the Dyson charges etc etc.

Martin

 

[Theonlysue]

As I'm rarely on electric I need to know how my leisure batteries are doing before they run too low to do anything lol

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[Lenny HB]

Lenny HB: Does monitoring the voltage and current give you anymore power or just stop you using it when you want to.

Allows me to monitor my use relative to the state of the batteries i.e. I won't use my inverter if the batteries aren't fully charged and not enough sunshine to recharge them. Particularly important in the winter.

Also can help when batteries are failing like the crap Banner AGM's in the last van, both failed at 18 months old. We were in Greece at the time and batteries were only giving me a total of 20 a/h I was able to nurse them until we got home 4 weeks later.

 

[DBK]

Lenny HB: Does monitoring the voltage and current give you anymore power or just stop you using it when you want to.

It stops you ruining your batteries by letting the voltage go down too far. For example, anything under 12 volts and I start to fidget and if it got close to 11.5 volts I would start the engine if turning things off wasn't an option.
I suspect your lights won't dim until a much lower voltage is reached, assuming they aren't leds which will just go off I think. Regularly discharging your batteries below 50% will significantly reduce their life.

 

[Stealaway]

If the lights go dim I know the battery is low and I'll go to bed early

By that time your batteries are far to far drained to expect any kind of service life from them
I only drain my batteries to 50% discharge ( according to the voltmeter) consequently my batteries last a good number of years.
Electrics don't have to be complicated but to be able to monitor situations and spot problems early can be handy.
The most complicated bit is the power auto change over's and auto charging and I would want to be without either

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[Wissel]

Must admit I have a complicated system - but I built it to make everything simple

I have regulated power going where it needs to go, different regulated voltages for a monitor etc, every cable the correct width for the amps and lengths, 3 x smart chargers (engine, solar and EHU - all multi-stage), battery monitor, probably loads I can't remember off the top of my head.

But it was designed to be really simple. Lights are on an always on circuit and can be switched from front or back of van and I built a control panel that isolates each appliance or socket separately with a master switch.

When I want to use the van I park, then flick the master switch on. When leaving the van for a while I flick the master off. Everything is behind a door so no annoying lights at night, apart from the battery monitor. It's worked flawlessly for 4 years.

It also has an isolater in the cab that can be switched to jump-start the vehicle in case it goes flat and the outdoor light is remote control for when parked in the dark

 

[scotjimland]

Is it really necessary for the electrical circuits on a motorhome to be so complicated?

short answer.. No

first van I ever owned had little in the way of 'complicated' .. just very basic electrics.. 12v for lights and water pump.. nowt else.. no TV, no fridge , no hot water ..not even a habitation battery.. no charger, no solar, no EHU.. and it never gave a problem.. travelled far and wide, simple to maintain and look after.

my present van , and elderly 2001 Hymer has very basic electrics, but far more advanced than my first.. it has analogue meters for voltage and amps, that are also used for tank levels. It also has solar power, all very useful.. and reliable..

Modern vans are far more complex and complicated , control panels with touch screens, full of information that many don't need or understand, sometimes I think they have someone dream up how to make things more complicated.. that can only mean more problems.. and more expensive repairs when it goes wrong.. so there is some logic.. more breakdowns means more money for repair shops. Other examples, Truma heaters with remote controls.. and timers.. fridges with auto power selection.. who needs that, i's just more to go wrong.

My maxim has always been KISS . for me, modern motorhomes are far too complicated and if I were travelling out of the EU wouldn't want a 'modern' van that needs a computer expert to fault find when it goes wrong.

So yes, IMO they are far too complex and complicated , I'll stick with 'old tech' .. the older the better... I was brought up with 'old tech' and it has served us well.

 

[tonyidle]

The complexity built into modern motorhomes is there because most owners appear to want (or have forced upon them) simple touch buttons and graphics to indicate what is going on. Behind the facade of sophistication the decades old mechanisms are still there and just as reliable (or not) as they always were. The bit that goes wrong and costs a bomb is the control panel. These can never be reliable given the small market for them. Probably the best example is the AES fridge. The same rusting, badly installed device it always was with a shiny new control panel so we don't have to think about what supply it's using. Until it goes wrong.

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[rangi]

We have 2 switches, and a pushy knob thingee.

Water pump and 12volt are the 2 switches, pushy knob is to see how much water we have.

1992 Auto Sleeper

 

[mitzimad]

Flashy digital displays help to sell vans none of it is necessary. on the van I built we had a fuses box and switches and a volt meter that plugged into a lighter socket

 

[two]

I agree that the control panels are unnecessarily complex but guess that it’s done to suggest that you’re getting your money’s worth. Modern displays may be flashy but are woefully inaccurate. Much better not to bother at all and let the owner add what they feel is necessary.

My water gauge, for example, bears no resemblance to the actual quantity left in the tank. With modern electronics you’d think they could calibrate them to be of some use but it seems that they cannot be bothered.

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[tonyidle]

I agree that the control panels are unnecessarily complex but guess that it’s done to suggest that you’re getting your money’s worth. Modern displays may be flashy but are woefully inaccurate. Much better not to bother at all and let the owner add what they feel is necessary.

My water gauge, for example, bears no resemblance to the actual quantity left in the tank. With modern electronics you’d think they could calibrate them to be of some use but it seems that they cannot be bothered.

That's the point really. Nothing, or very little, has changed where it really matters. There's just new gloss in front. I'd rather see a common interface developed for all van systems that could be used by all manufacturers. If that then connected to a tablet or smartphone using Bluetooth then each manufacturer could differentiate his product by means of the app provided to connect. Upmarket manufacturers could even mount a tablet within the vehicle. That way at least the front end would be reliable and cheaply replaceable and the interface should improve by being commonly used. I wouldn't want to go back to a row of brown switches but there are better ways forward than current offerings.

 

[Yorick]

Electrickery is the work of the devil. It's Voodoo I tell you. Voodoo.

 

[funflair]

I think it's only too complicated when 1/ you can't work it and 2/ it goes wrong and you can't fix it, up to that point it's all really useful.

Martin

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[peterc10]

I have a 2015 Hymer A class and really do not understand how anybody would call the electrics as complicated. Especially when compared with electrics in the Fiat base vehicle.

My panel has one switch which switches all the electrics on or off. I always leave it on. And it had one knob that I twist to check the voltages of the batteries and the levels of the tanks. These all seem to be accurate.

Oh and there is a switch for the water pump which I switch off in the winter and on in the spring. And an AES fridge which I switch on to Auto when i am using the motorhome and off when I am not.

What's difficult about that?

 

[Ivory55]

I think it's only too complicated when 1/ you can't work it and 2/ it goes wrong and you can't fix it, up to that point it's all really useful.

Martin

I guess as electronic and computers have raced forward if you're not working/living with this type of thing many get left behind. I admit I struggle with this type of thing.

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a 2015 Hymer A class and really do not understand how anybody would call the electrics as complicated. Especially when compared with electrics in the Fiat base vehicle.

My panel has one switch which switches all the electrics on or off. I always leave it on. And it had one knob that I twist to check the voltages of the batteries and the levels of the tanks. These all seem to be accurate.

Oh and there is a switch for the water pump which I switch off in the winter and on in the spring. And an AES fridge which I switch on to Auto when i am using the motorhome and off when I am not.

What's difficult about that?

Hymer panels are too simple these days and we have to spend a fortune fitting a battery monitor so we know what's going on, they used to fit decent panels that gave you all the info.

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[SIFTA SAM]

If people are married how can they possibly find motorhome systems complicated??

 

[DL42846]

I have a Fiat base Moncayo van where the electrics look quiet simple. That was until I wanted to fit an exterior habitation light and started looking behind the panel. I always thought of the Italians as being disorganised. I have never seen so many dead wires doing nothing. The switch on the panel for the outside light was dead. I ended up connecting to the interior lights with a separate switch. Hand fulls of dead wires.

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a Fiat base Moncayo van where the electrics look quiet simple. That was until I wanted to fit an exterior habitation light and started looking behind the panel. I always thought of the Italians as being disorganised. I have never seen so many dead wires doing nothing. The switch on the panel for the outside light was dead. I ended up connecting to the interior lights with a separate switch. Hand fulls of dead wires.

Same with all manufacturers they fit a standard loom that can cope with every accessory.

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