Dodgy MH Dealership (any legals out there please?) (1 Viewer)

[82125]

O.k so the place I bought my MH from less than 10 days ago sent me away in a vehicle that was in an illegal condition for the road and potentially dangerous.

In addition they've apparently done zero checks/work during the 3 weeks they made me wait to collect it (like the promised MOT, hab check, gas safety, service, valet e.t.c). Theyve obviously just ticked the boxes on the pre-purchase inspection sheet without even being in the vehicle. They have for sure knowingly not fixed things the previous private owner told them it needed when they bought it from him (ive had numerous conversations with the previous private owner as id tried to buy it from him in the first place before this MH dealership beat me to it). The Oyster dish needs a new £900 main board and doesnt even move (yet its also ticked off as working).
The list of faults, that should all of been spotted, (if theyd actually done any checks) and rectified before selling the vehicle is long and will probably cost around £3000. Given they stuck £14,000 on top of the price they actually paid for the MH from the private seller, I think they are more taking the mickey. Ironically they refused to move on their asking price too because they reeled off that they had to take in to account the cost of servicing, pre-purchase checks, mot, warranty costs e.t.c. (non of which theyve even done).

They make all the right "noises", in terms of promising to order me this and that, have someone fix things, get it MOT'd, send me the so far non-extent warranty paperwork e.t.c. but I am almost entirely certain they're just trying to keep the clock ticking to delay until my right to return it for a full refund within 30 days expires.

Its all extremely polite at the moment, and I'd like to keep it that way for now for the SLIM chance they might actually honour something or fix something.

Its a fantastic van, I have no desire to return it. All the faults are just things that any dealer with a conscience would easily and quickly put right. But having already paid £14k over the odds its a bit much to have to spend another £3k+ to put everything right myself.

This is a large, well presented MH business and not some small back street garage. They actually sell a number of MH brands from new (who I assume would be interested to hear how this seller conducts themselves representing their brand name?)

So far ive kept all conversations about my issues with the MH documented via email, (which when i asked one of their agents for they said they dont give out?! A business that doesnt give out its email address? Probably to ensure there's no written record of complaints I assume).
I've listed all the faults and taken photos of the most serious ones (mainly the tyres which are all over 10 years old, cracked sidewalls and not one of them had anywhere near enough air in. One had 20psi when i checked it the next day! N/S main and dip HID bulb is also blown and was black taped in place).

Before i end up reporting them to trading standards? What are my best options please? I just want them to honour their warranty and legal obligation so I can get on with enjoying my MH.
The dealership is 300 miles away and its unsafe and illegal to drive it back to them currently. They knew I was driving it 300 miles back to Scotland once I'd collected it and still sent me off with it in this condition. They couldnt even be bothered to top the coolant up, which was 2" below the minimum and the screenwash was completely empty too.
So far, out of the £14k mark up they put on this MH, their only outlay has been to spray blackner on the tyres and silicon on the dash to make them look shiny.

Thanks.
(and yes, I'm up at 3am because i cant sleep worrying about it!)

 

[Clipgate]

I note your remarks about the company image, have you carried out a company search and accessed the accounts.
Quite often this type of business is all flash no cash.
So before wasting good currency, may I suggest you carry out a few background checks
I believe you know the two obvious options available to you well, no need for me to point them out.
In all situations knowledge is power.

 

[Robert Clark]

O.k so the place I bought my MH from less than 10 days ago sent me away in a vehicle that was in an illegal condition for the road and potentially dangerous.

In addition they've apparently done zero checks/work during the 3 weeks they made me wait to collect it (like the promised MOT, hab check, gas safety, service, valet e.t.c). Theyve obviously just ticked the boxes on the pre-purchase inspection sheet without even being in the vehicle. They have for sure knowingly not fixed things the previous private owner told them it needed when they bought it from him (ive had numerous conversations with the previous private owner as id tried to buy it from him in the first place before this MH dealership beat me to it). The Oyster dish needs a new £900 main board and doesnt even move (yet its also ticked off as working).
The list of faults, that should all of been spotted, (if theyd actually done any checks) and rectified before selling the vehicle is long and will probably cost around £3000. Given they stuck £14,000 on top of the price they actually paid for the MH from the private seller, I think they are more taking the mickey. Ironically they refused to move on their asking price too because they reeled off that they had to take in to account the cost of servicing, pre-purchase checks, mot, warranty costs e.t.c. (non of which theyve even done).

They make all the right "noises", in terms of promising to order me this and that, have someone fix things, get it MOT'd, send me the so far non-extent warranty paperwork e.t.c. but I am almost entirely certain they're just trying to keep the clock ticking to delay until my right to return it for a full refund within 30 days expires.

Its all extremely polite at the moment, and I'd like to keep it that way for now for the SLIM chance they might actually honour something or fix something.

Its a fantastic van, I have no desire to return it. All the faults are just things that any dealer with a conscience would easily and quickly put right. But having already paid £14k over the odds its a bit much to have to spend another £3k+ to put everything right myself.

This is a large, well presented MH business and not some small back street garage. They actually sell a number of MH brands from new (who I assume would be interested to hear how this seller conducts themselves representing their brand name?)

So far ive kept all conversations about my issues with the MH documented via email, (which when i asked one of their agents for they said they dont give out?! A business that doesnt give out its email address? Probably to ensure there's no written record of complaints I assume).
I've listed all the faults and taken photos of the most serious ones (mainly the tyres which are all over 10 years old, cracked sidewalls and not one of them had anywhere near enough air in. One had 20psi when i checked it the next day! N/S main and dip HID bulb is also blown and was black taped in place).

Before i end up reporting them to trading standards? What are my best options please? I just want them to honour their warranty and legal obligation so I can get on with enjoying my MH.
The dealership is 300 miles away and its unsafe and illegal to drive it back to them currently. They knew I was driving it 300 miles back to Scotland once I'd collected it and still sent me off with it in this condition. They couldnt even be bothered to top the coolant up, which was 2" below the minimum and the screenwash was completely empty too.
So far, out of the £14k mark up they put on this MH, their only outlay has been to spray blackner on the tyres and silicon on the dash to make them look shiny.

Thanks.
(and yes, I'm up at 3am because i cant sleep worrying about it!)

I’d suggest seeing a solicitor and getting a letter sent to the dealer as this will carry more weight and be more likely to get a response

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[138go]

We have experience of this sort of service. Trading Standards won’t want to know, I think you need to reject this motorhome.

 

[Clipgate]

Might I humbly suggest, if the dealer is savvy in the world of lawyers, they can play the game called, let's reply and it's costs!

Each time a potential defendant replies to a letter it costs the potential plaintiff dearly.

I feel sure your able to reach your own decision, you have laid out the options here.

My only advice is detach yourself from emotions, and make a decision based on your own best interests.

Depending on the decision you make, legal assistance may be required, in that case choose a lawyer wisely, one with vast experience in the field, never be afraid of asking difficult questions of the lawyer, in effect do you know what your doing in this matter.

 

[chaser]

I think a bit of buyers remorse is happening here, thinking of the 14 grand over the top.
Why didn't you look for these things BEFORE driving away, driving 300 miles then deciding the tyres aren't up to it should have been in the drivers inspection before any journey and rejected there and then.
And surely you would check the satilite dish if they were supposed to be mending it to see if it worked.

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[Lenny HB]

Having been in contact with the previous owner and knowing the dealer was putting 14k on top would be enough to make me walk away.

 

[Two on Tour]

Having been in contact with the previous owner and knowing the dealer was putting 14k on top would be enough to make me walk away.

Did the previous owner sell it to the dealer for peanut and the dealer sold it at market or under market price so the dealer had the leeway for that profit margin ?

I buy at the price I'm prepared pay if it's what I want.

 

[DumfriesDik]

Come on guys, I think the OP knows what they should have done and probably is beating themselves up over this. Support and compassion.

I would ignore advice on a forum and seek real legal advice, I would return the vehicle if possible as these are the faults you have found, it makes me wander what else is to come.

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[BillM]

I would get some new tyres on it, replace the dodgy bulbs, get the sat dish fixed and then go on to enjoy your new motorhome. Ask the dealer for a contribution… if they refuse, just move on and enjoy your ownership. The stress and worry of a rejection / legal action is just not worth it for £3k.. Put it down to experience, review the dealer on here, and you’ll know better how to buy a second had motorhome in the future. If the dealer is as bad as you say, their business will fail in the long run…. meanwhile enjoy your holidays!

 

[Podney]

Unfortunately you made the age old mistake of parting with your hard earned cash before you were satisfied with its condition. It’s easily done when ones mind is set on getting something one really likes. I feel your pain.

If it is unroadworthy how can you drive it to the dealer even if they do agree to rectify the faults? If it’s just the tyres you could get them fitted locally but I doubt you dealer would agree to pay if you do that.

I suggest you go to a solicitor immediately.

 

[eddie]

The legal defence would be simple, the levels were checked prior to the vehicle leaving, the tyres are legal, one may have developed a slow puncture after it left our workshops, and similarly, a bulb has blown.

These thing happen in a second hand vehicle, we offered to fix all these things under warranty, but the owner refused to bring it back to us

The Oyster spare is on order

Mi’ Lud!

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[82125]

Might I humbly suggest, if the dealer is savvy in the world of lawyers, they can play the game called, let's reply and it's costs!

Each time a potential defendant replies to a letter it costs the potential plaintiff dearly.

I feel sure your able to reach your own decision, you have laid out the options here.

My only advice is detach yourself from emotions, and make a decision based on your own best interests.

Depending on the decision you make, legal assistance may be required, in that case choose a lawyer wisely, one with vast experience in the field, never be afraid of asking difficult questions of the lawyer, in effect do you know what your doing in this matter.

Agree, I know how that "game" works, and even once you get a court judgement at great expense, this sort of company will like ignore it anyway.

 

[82125]

I think a bit of buyers remorse is happening here, thinking of the 14 grand over the top.
Why didn't you look for these things BEFORE driving away, driving 300 miles then deciding the tyres aren't up to it should have been in the drivers inspection before any journey and rejected there and then.
And surely you would check the satilite dish if they were supposed to be mending it to see if it worked.

there are damn good circumstances behind that, which im not prepared to post on a public forum (privately yes).

After an 8hr train journey down to collect it, and having had to wait 3 weeks for them to get the van "ready", late in the afternoon with another 300mile journey back to Scotland ahead of me, you'll have to forgive me for having not done a full service and inspection of the vehicle having just paid them £80k to do it.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick? I didnt know about the sat dish until i tried to use it a few days ago, so i rang the previous owner who told me he had booked it in for repair last month, but this dealer who bought it wouldnt wait, and said he would sort it instead (and then sold to me having ticked the pre-inspection list that it works).

 

[Ninjabob]

Can you not get it all fixed then take out a small claim in the courts against them yourself?

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[Lenny HB]

eddievanbitz has hit the nail on the head.

These thing happen in a second hand vehicle, we offered to fix all these things under warranty, but the owner refused to bring it back to us

 

[82125]

Having been in contact with the previous owner and knowing the dealer was putting 14k on top would be enough to make me walk away.

I had to buy a van quickly, i tried to buy it when it was listed privately for sale but wasnt beaten to it.
I really dont advice on coulda should woulda guys. As I say the circumstances behind them are unknown to you.

If its not related to my original question I'm really not interested thank you all the same though.

 

[simbadog]

there are damn good circumstances behind that, which im not prepared to post on a public forum (privately yes).

After an 8hr train journey down to collect it, and having had to wait 3 weeks for them to get the van "ready", late in the afternoon with another 300mile journey back to Scotland ahead of me, you'll have to forgive me for having not done a full service and inspection of the vehicle having just paid them £80k to do it.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick? I didnt know about the sat dish until i tried to use it a few days ago, so i rang the previous owner who told me he had booked it in for repair last month, but this dealer who bought it wouldnt wait, and said he would sort it instead (and then sold to me having ticked the pre-inspection list that it works).

80K for a s/h van with 10 year old tyres!

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[82125]

I would get some new tyres on it, replace the dodgy bulbs, get the sat dish fixed and then go on to enjoy your new motorhome. Ask the dealer for a contribution… if they refuse, just move on and enjoy your ownership. The stress and worry of a rejection / legal action is just not worth it for £3k.. Put it down to experience, review the dealer on here, and you’ll know better how to buy a second had motorhome in the future. If the dealer is as bad as you say, their business will fail in the long run…. meanwhile enjoy your holidays!

thank you, thats what im thinking as well.
Fix it myself, invoice the dealer anyway afterwards and just get on with enjoying it. Then leave appropriate reviews and reports where ever possible on the dealer.
But thats why i thought id ask the question here first in case there was a better course of action some one could suggest.

 

[82125]

80K for a s/h van with 10 year old tyres!

again, helpful thanks.
(its top end of its market value yes)

 

[Lenny HB]

80K for a s/h van with 10 year old tyres!

200k van that's not done many miles?
I think I'd be worried that it's spent most of its life sitting around, not good.

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[Manic]

If I had bought a van that far from home I think I would have stayed local to the dealer for a night or two just to make sure everything was as it should be.

 

[Minxy]

Firstly try to stop fretting, its annoying when something like this happens but it certainly isn't worth causing yourself stress over ... trust me, been there, got numerous t-shirts. Now for my thoughts ... not intended to offend etc but just trying to understand the full picture.

I think, reading between the lines, the real issue is that you are smarting having paid £14,000 more than you could've bought it for from the private seller in the same condition it is now (albeit it should have a warranty). Obviously you and the previous owner are the only ones who know the reason for that, if you made offers lower than the dealer then maybe the seller wanted, or needed, to get shot of it at the time. The prices of MHs have gone up a lot this year due to high demand and low stock so a lot of the price difference may be down to if they have had it sitting around a long time since the bought it, only you know that, however there's nothing wrong with them charging the 'market price' for it, they didn't make you buy it but I know it can be difficult sometimes if you want it badly and there's not really an alternative.

If we buy from a distance we always get the dealer to agree to us getting smaller stuff sorted locally which they'll pay for, either sending replacement parts for me to swap out or getting a local company to do it, have you asked them? I wouldn't go down the 'legal' route just yet as I think all you'll get is a lot of hassle with no gain as you need to give them time to sort issues, 10 days seems more like 2 months to you, but to them its a few minutes.

 

[AndyPK]

thank you, thats what im thinking as well.
Fix it myself, invoice the dealer anyway afterwards and just get on with enjoying it. Then leave appropriate reviews and reports where ever possible on the dealer.
But thats why i thought id ask the question here first in case there was a better course of action some one could suggest.

That is probably the best course of action….if only for your own peace of mind! Don’t beat yourself up about the situation….it won’t help.

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[chaser]

I had to buy a van quickly, i tried to buy it when it was listed privately for sale but wasnt beaten to it.
I really dont advice on coulda should woulda guys. As I say the circumstances behind them are unknown to you.

If its not related to my original question I'm really not interested thank you all the same though.

Ok then, if you want it that way, get on to your lawyer, spend another 3 grand,, you will get your dealers back up and will still end up with the van and they won't be willing to put it right, so is that what you want to hear?

 

[Jim]

Make a list of what the dealer should put right and give them a reasonable deadline. Don’t threaten them with forums or facebook that will just solidify positions and you’ll both lose.

Forget about the sat dish get it removed it’s worthless, it will free up payload. Hardly anyone bothers with a dish these days.

Forget what deal they did with their buyer, it has nothing to do with you. You were happy to deal at the price you paid, that is all that matters. You cannot reject, just because you discover the dealer made a good profit.

Don't cut your nose to spite your face. protracted wranglings will ruin your life, make the best deal you can, then live with it. Get the vehicle safe and get out and and enjoy it.

 

[Minxy]

there are damn good circumstances behind that, which im not prepared to post on a public forum (privately yes).

After an 8hr train journey down to collect it, and having had to wait 3 weeks for them to get the van "ready", late in the afternoon with another 300mile journey back to Scotland ahead of me, you'll have to forgive me for having not done a full service and inspection of the vehicle having just paid them £80k to do it.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick? I didnt know about the sat dish until i tried to use it a few days ago, so i rang the previous owner who told me he had booked it in for repair last month, but this dealer who bought it wouldnt wait, and said he would sort it instead (and then sold to me having ticked the pre-inspection list that it works).

Some dealers will promise the earth when selling but then once they have you on the end of the 'hook' do nowt.

If you knew of the faults which I assume you did from your previous attempts to buy it, I can't understand why you didn't check they'd been sorted before you paid in full, regardless of the travel hassle on the day you didn't do this which I can partly understand, however if you had then you wouldn't be in the pickle you appear to believe you are now. I've travelled distances for MHs before and had it not been for us having dogs would likely have stayed in a travel lodge or the like to ensure I had timed to check the vehicle before driving it.

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[chaser]

Make a list of what the dealer should put right and give them a reasonable deadline. Don’t threaten them with forums or facebook that will just solidify positions and you’ll both lose.

Forget about the sat dish get it removed it’s worthless, it will free up payload. Hardly anyone bothers with a dish these days.

Forget what deal they did with their buyer, it has nothing to do with you. You were happy to deal at the price you paid, that is all that matters. You cannot reject, just because you discover the dealer made a good profit.

Don't cut your nose to spite your face. protracted wranglings will ruin your life, make the best deal you can, then live with it. Get the vehicle safe and get out and and enjoy it.

In a nutshell

 

[U.Toadifact]

Rather than leap to the local solicitor, it could be worth taking out a subscription to Which? Legal. I think it is £38 for the first month but that is one heck of a lot less than Rippitoff and Soddem solicitors.

Once you have the legal side clear in your mind you should have a clearer view of how to progress.

 

[Barclaybasher]

If you spend £4k on the van it's just 5% of it's value. Try and get something back but not legal action - waste of time and money - and stress !