common issue - motorhome weights

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tomsgrandpa

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CI Riviera 181
Hi
I am new to this Forum and also motor homes. I have recently bought a 2004 CI Riviera 181 and was aware of the problem re weights and driving licence.

The vehicle has a single plate on the front slam panel stating it's plated weight is 3500kg together with the other details - max all up weight and axle weights.

This information is duplicated on the side of the drivers seat.

The V5 has the 'Revenue weight' as 3800kg. I have just taxed the vehicle online and paid the required fee for 3800kg revenue weight.

I have the original documentation that gives a weighbridge weight of 2922kg and an 'empty weight declared for registration' at 3005kg

I am 73 yrs old ( wife is 75 ) and neither of us has carried forward the C1 entitlement - the others insured to drive the vehicle took their driving test too late to also have the C1 entitlement.

If I leave things as they are on the V5 but always keep the weight below 3500kg do we commit an offence - we are complying with the Driving Licence Regs as the weight is below the 3500kg - and the vehicle is plated for 3500kg. We pay the lower amount of VEL because of the stated 'Revenue weight'

I thought I would ask 'the Forum' before possibly DVLA as without a doubt they will go for the 3500kg change to gain more VEL fees.

The strange thing is the actual plate - why if the 'Revenue weight' is 3800kg then surely there should be a plate on the slam panel beside the 3500kg plate. Also if someone legally drove the vehicle using the 3800kg and was stopped & weighed the plate is showing 3500kg and not 3800kg

Hope someone can help with this - be most grateful

Cheers
Stewart
 
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As you don't now have C1 entitlement you aren't licenced to drive it.
As DVLA have it at 3800kg and you paid £165 Road tax you must have C1.
Somewhere, not neccesarilly under the bonnet, on the van there will be a converters plate with the new weight on it.... Maybe in a cupboard or wardrobe. They aren't restricted where it can go.
Driving it under 3500kg will make no difference.
 
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You might just get lucky, send V5 back with photo of the actual plates and suggest there is a mistake on the V5, weight should read 3500kg

otherwise as above , illegal to drive as is and probably would invalidate any insurance 😳🤔

Edit - it is a fairly simple process to officially reduce the weight to 3500kg 👍
 
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But he could have it downplayed couldn't he?

(Assuming there is enough cargo capacity to lose)

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DavidG58 said:
You might just get lucky, send V5 back with photo of the actual plates and suggest there is a mistake on the V5, weight should read 3500kg

otherwise as above , illegal to drive as is and probably would invalidate any insurance 😳🤔

Edit - it is a fairly simple process to officially reduce the weight to 3500kg 👍
Click to expand...
A massive risk without knowing the actual weight.
It may now weigh more than 3500kg empty so anything put onboard will throw it well over 3500kg so overweight before you start.
First step, load it as you would if going away then go to a weighbridge.
 
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If you have no medical issues it should be straightforward to reinstate your c1 entitlements. If you do have issues you may have to undergo some physical tests.
 
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It is likely that a previous owner uprated it to 3800kg which was accepted by the DVLA thus the higher weight on their records, there should therefore be a third plate on it somewhere with the higher weight on it. What appears to have happened is that no-one has informed the DVLA that the weight should be reduced to 3500kg, eg the previous owners who appear to have been driving it 'illegally' also, probably in order to get away with paying less road tax.

The upshot is that it is illegal for you to use at present as you do not have a licence for 3800kg so could get fined if stopped, you may also have issues with your insurer if you have need to make a claim if you were driving it as you do not have a valid licence for the registered weight.

Don't be tempted to use it at all and if you can take it off the road then cancel the road tax (no point in paying for it if you can't use it!), importantly you need to apply to downrate it with the DVLA immediately, that way you'll get a new V5C and be able to use it again once you've paid the correct road tax amount, however how long it will take is anyone's guess I'm afraid.

www.gov.uk

Change vehicle details on a V5C registration certificate (log book)

Updating your V5C registration certificate (log book) if you make changes to your vehicle
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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pappajohn said:
A massive risk without knowing the actual weight.
It may now weigh more than 3500kg empty so anything put onboard will throw it well over 3500kg so overweight before you start.
First step, load it as you would if going away then go to a weighbridge.
Click to expand...
I agree but the only problem with that is they can't legally drive it.
 
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:welco:
As others have said you can't drive it on your licence and I know my insurance says you must have a licence to drive the insured vehicle.
Fairly simple do down plate you just need a weighbridge ticket to send to DVLA with the correct form.
Not sure how you get it to a weghbridge if you can't drive may have to call on a mate.
If you have no health issues the best option would be to renew your C1 as you may find at 3500kg it will be too tight on payload to run legally anyway.
If you decide to keep it at 3800 you need to find the plate or get another plate, you can buy show plates on eBay they are no different from legal ones.
 
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Backing up what others have said.. You are not licensed to drive it as it stands.
It's not a case of keeping the running weight down but what it is registered for as its max / gross weight, that is stated on the V5 as 3800 and i would suspect that there is another plate somewhere on the van. That could be inside the rear of the van or even outside somewhere.
 
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Hello Tomsgrandpa. First off Welcome to the FUN. With regards to you predicament, I would check the door pillars for the correct converters weight plate. You then have 2 options; take a medical and apply for your C1, or Have the MH weighed and as long as its below 3500kgs apply to DVLA and have it down plated to 3500kgs.
 
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I thank you all for your information & comments - I went into the purchase with eyes wide open and I knew that there was always the option to downplate. The vehicle has had no additions to it, weightwise since it's first weighbridge ticket in 2004. the vehicle has only done 7000 miles in that time - very little use and only used for local trips down here in Cornwall. One would presume I can keep the original 3500kg plate - have looked everywhere for a 3800kg plate on the vehicle with no success, but as Pappajohn says that they use DVLA records at roadside there is no option. I can get the entitlement easily enough but my daughter cannot - will have to teat etc.
I think I will take the route that DavidG58 has suggested and use the evidence that I have and see where that takes me.

I thank you all for your time & help
Cheers
Stewart
 
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Alberto said:
Hello Tomsgrandpa. First off Welcome to the FUN. With regards to you predicament, I would check the door pillars for the correct converters weight plate. You then have 2 options; take a medical and apply for your C1, or Have the MH weighed and as long as its below 3500kgs apply to DVLA and have it down plated to 3500kgs.
Click to expand...
DVLA won't downplate to 3500kg if there isn't an acceptable remaining payload whether its a car, van, pickup or motorhome.
They won't allow 3500kg on something which actually does weigh 3500kg Unladen.

If this van has been uprated to 3800kg by the converter there's a reason for that uprate..... Its too heavy for 3500kg.

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Just give theses guys a call, they will downplate it in the blink of an eye and you can enjoy your new motorhome, legally.

www.svtech.co.uk

Downplating

As well as replating a vehicle to legally carry heavier loads, owners can also reduce the legal maximum weight their vehicle can carry. This is called downplating and it normally occurs for one of two reasons; either licence restrictions applying to drivers turning 70 and those not
www.svtech.co.uk
 
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pappajohn said:
DVLA won't downplate to 3500kg if there isn't an acceptable remaining payload whether its a car, van, pickup or motorhome.
They won't allow 3500kg on something which actually does weigh 3500kg Unladen.

If this van has been uprated to 3800kg by the converter there's a reason for that uprate..... Its too heavy for 3500kg.
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"I have the original documentation that gives a weighbridge weight of 2922kg and an 'empty weight declared for registration' at 3005kg"

Further, "The vehicle has had no additions to it, weightwise since it's first weighbridge ticket in 2004. the vehicle has only done 7000 miles in that time."

I think the OP has been very Frank about the weights of his new van.
 
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The 2006 model CI riviera 181 weighs in at 3850kg on the heavy chassis..

Downplate that to 3500kg and see how much payload it has.
 
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pappajohn said:
DVLA won't downplate to 3500kg if there isn't an acceptable remaining payload whether its a car, van, pickup or motorhome.
They won't allow 3500kg on something which actually does weigh 3500kg Unladen.

If this van has been uprated to 3800kg by the converter there's a reason for that uprate..... Its too heavy for 3500kg.
Click to expand...

My van was 3850 kg on the V5 and DVLA vehicle check
The plate on the Ducato reads 3500 kg
The converters plate (Mobilvetta) has no weights - axle weights are blank
I sent the V5 to Swansea filling in the section for class change with a photo of the van's data plate
I was told (on the telephone) to cancel my DD for the road fund and re-tax the van PLG by postal order or cheque.
I was not asked to weigh the van and a new V5 was issued - PLG
It took 6 months though and maybe Jim's suggestion of using SVtech must be quicker !

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This is the weighbridge ticket I shall be sending to DVLA - many thanks now to Barclaybasher for his info - exactly what I was after
1618952422544.png
1618952422544.png
 
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As BB has said, you should be able to do it yourself. Just send an explanatory letter saying you want it down-plating listing the documents you have included (V5C, Trigano doc etc) and confirm the weight when it was produced and that no additional items have been added as this will be an important factor.

There is no need to get a company involved (which will cost you anyway), but if you do feel the need there are 2 that are know to do this:

SVTech (as mentioned by Jim) but can be expensive
Van Weight Engineering who will likely be cheaper:

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Van Weight Engineering - A New Option For Up-plating, Uprating & Downplating Motorhomes

Just had the latest list of approved companies from the DVSA & as well as the well rated but somewhat expensive SvTech there is one that is new - Van Weight Engineering https://www.vanweightengineering.com/home - has anyone tried their services yet? Having messaged to find out more - their...
www.motorhomefun.co.uk www.motorhomefun.co.uk

As for it being quicker if you use a company, it likely won't make any difference and could possibly take longer as you wait for them to do 'their stuff' - once you get the confirmation info back of them you still have to send it all to the DVLA yourself anyway.
 
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Good luck, as a guide SV Tech wanted us to ensure we had 400Kg of available payload before they would down plate our van. Van originally plated at 3400Kg, then up plated to 3700kg. Empty, no water, full fuel we weighed 3000kg so we could down plate to 3500Kg.
 
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If you just bought it from a dealer and they didnt tell you it is over 3500kg you can return it or make them downplate it for you if it is practical to do so. For it to be practical to do so you need to see that it has been weighed empty and decide if it allows enough payload at 3500kg.

Or you could sell it, theres a strong second hand market at the moment.

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As previously noted I suggest you contact SVTech they are the experts and very easy to deal with, they upgraded the payload weight on my Swift Bolero after I got Mick at SAP to fit air suspension (which I highly recommend)
 
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Chris Sykes said:
As previously noted I suggest you contact SVTech they are the experts and very easy to deal with, they upgraded the payload weight on my Swift Bolero after I got Mick at SAP to fit air suspension (which I highly recommend)
Click to expand...
You don't need to use SV Tech for down plating just need a weighbridge certificate.
 
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It still needs weighing in 'ready to go' trim.

Unladen weight is not relevant and very rarely on VIN plate or V5, DVLA want to know the actual gross weight.

Get a new weighbridge certificate and a photo of the VIN plate under the bonnet.
 
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pappajohn said:
It still needs weighing in 'ready to go' trim.

Unladen weight is not relevant and very rarely on VIN plate or V5, DVLA want to know the actual gross weight.

Get a new weighbridge certificate and a photo of the VIN plate under the bonnet.
Click to expand...
Downplated mine this year with just a photo of the vin plate under the bonnet. I did expect to be asked for a weighbridge ticket - didn't happen.
Sending a weighbridge ticket seems sensible though (y).
Might weigh mine anyway
 
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