common issue - motorhome weights

tomsgrandpa

Free Member
Apr 20, 2021
5
24
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80,543
MH
CI Riviera 181
Hi
I am new to this Forum and also motor homes. I have recently bought a 2004 CI Riviera 181 and was aware of the problem re weights and driving licence.

The vehicle has a single plate on the front slam panel stating it's plated weight is 3500kg together with the other details - max all up weight and axle weights.

This information is duplicated on the side of the drivers seat.

The V5 has the 'Revenue weight' as 3800kg. I have just taxed the vehicle online and paid the required fee for 3800kg revenue weight.

I have the original documentation that gives a weighbridge weight of 2922kg and an 'empty weight declared for registration' at 3005kg

I am 73 yrs old ( wife is 75 ) and neither of us has carried forward the C1 entitlement - the others insured to drive the vehicle took their driving test too late to also have the C1 entitlement.

If I leave things as they are on the V5 but always keep the weight below 3500kg do we commit an offence - we are complying with the Driving Licence Regs as the weight is below the 3500kg - and the vehicle is plated for 3500kg. We pay the lower amount of VEL because of the stated 'Revenue weight'

I thought I would ask 'the Forum' before possibly DVLA as without a doubt they will go for the 3500kg change to gain more VEL fees.

The strange thing is the actual plate - why if the 'Revenue weight' is 3800kg then surely there should be a plate on the slam panel beside the 3500kg plate. Also if someone legally drove the vehicle using the 3800kg and was stopped & weighed the plate is showing 3500kg and not 3800kg

Hope someone can help with this - be most grateful

Cheers
Stewart
 

pappajohn

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It is very relevant if you want to down plate, if you send DVLA a weight ticket when you are fully loaded and there is very little payload left they won't let you down plate.
It's 3800kg now and wouldn't have been uprated from 3500kg for the fun of doing it, if it's got little payload remaining now at 3800kg when in holiday trim it doesn't want downplating
If It's downplated to 3500kg it's going to be close to 300kg overweight in real terms. .

It needs weighing in holiday trim to see if it CAN be downplated.

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Emmit

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There have been and will be in the future., many examples of vans being sold at far greater unladen and MIRO weights in excess of the figures quoted by the OP.

It is not a requirement to have a van weighed in 'holiday' trim to work out whether or whether not it can be taken back to 3500kgs. To suggest such a thing is to challenge the acumen of the OP.
He knows what it weighs. Unlike us, a van does NOT put weight on with age. The OP knows there have been no extras put in or on the van.
Grant him the common sense to be able work out what he can put in it.
 
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He knows what it weighs. Unlike us, a van does NOT put weight on with age. The OP knows there have been no extras put in or on the van.
My van has put on weight in the 6 years I have owned it with all the stuff I have had put on it. ::bigsmile:

The OP's motorhome is now over 16 years old and he has only recently purchased it. How does he know if any extras have been put on since it came out the factory? I wish him well and hope the the DVLA will accept a 14 year old weighbridge ticket. But I would not be surprised if they didn't.

But for my own peace of mind I would want to get it weighed now with all the stuff and people I am likely to carry, just to make sure that I am not breaking the law once I have down plated it.
 
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pappajohn

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There have been and will be in the future., many examples of vans being sold at far greater unladen and MIRO weights in excess of the figures quoted by the OP.

It is not a requirement to have a van weighed in 'holiday' trim to work out whether or whether not it can be taken back to 3500kgs. To suggest such a thing is to challenge the acumen of the OP.
He knows what it weighs. Unlike us, a van does NOT put weight on with age. The OP knows there have been no extras put in or on the van.
Grant him the common sense to be able work out what he can put in it.
So why did the converter increase the weight to 3800kg if it was acceptable at 3500kg.
It certainly wasn't for fun or to restrict the customer base to C1 drivers only.

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Maybe the previous owner just needed, say, another 50kg of payload. If you do the paperwork to increase beyond 3500kg you may as well increase to the chassis or axle limit. Just my guess...
 
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pappajohn

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Maybe the previous owner just needed, say, another 50kg of payload. If you do the paperwork to increase beyond 3500kg you may as well increase to the chassis or axle limit. Just my guess...
It came out of the converters at 3800kg.
All CI riviera 181 were around 3800/3850kg

It's a 6 berth, 6 belted seat van.... Unlikely that would work on a 3500kg gross.
 
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Emmit

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So why did the converter increase the weight to 3800kg if it was acceptable at 3500kg.
It certainly wasn't for fun or to restrict the customer base to C1 drivers only.
It was to give sufficient payload relative to the number of berths, However;
Just because a van has six berths does not mean that every berth has to be used.
I repeat, recently there have been several examples on here of manufacturers making six berth vans and marketing them at 3500kgs.
I have not heard of an example where DVLA have stepped in and said there is insufficient payload.
Perhaps they have no policy on the matter.
I see no Funsters putting signs on the back of their vans to state that they are overladen. I wonder why?
For the same reason, it is not incumbent for the OP to prostrate himself to Swansea and point out that his van has six seats (probably doesn't have the seats anyway) or do you know the answer to that?)
No, 2004 was a long time ago in ethics as far as motorhome manufacturers were concerned. Ci gave a gross of 3800kgs to allow for its use in the UK. Not like now.
You can bet your next pension that without any modification the same van would have a gross of 3500kgs in France because they have no grandad rights over there and everybody is limited to 3500kgs without taking another test

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Minxy Girl

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Since 1996 we've had Elddis, Swift, Rapido, Rimor, Chausson MHs and Autocruise & Globecar PVCs
It's 3800kg now and wouldn't have been uprated from 3500kg for the fun of doing it, if it's got little payload remaining now at 3800kg when in holiday trim it doesn't want downplating
If It's downplated to 3500kg it's going to be close to 300kg overweight in real terms. .

It needs weighing in holiday trim to see if it CAN be downplated.
So why did the converter increase the weight to 3800kg if it was acceptable at 3500kg.
It certainly wasn't for fun or to restrict the customer base to C1 drivers only.
You are making assumptions which IMV are not accurate - there is nowhere on the paperwork shown that says it was registered at 3800kg by the converter/manufacturer at all, the weight on the document provided by them originally would indicate there wasn't any need for 3800kg at all so IMV it was originally 3500kg when sold to the first own - remember that older MHs were often lighter than more modern ones. It's likely to have either been uprated by a previous owner or it was wrongly registered originally at the higher rate by the supplying dealer.

For the DVLA it needs weighing in basic trim without any good/chattels, driver or other people on board and minimal fuel, water, gas etc board, this will then give a true 'empty' weight on the ticket which will then show what payload is available for anything that is added to it such as passenger, full fuel, full water, holiday stuff etc. Loading it up in holiday trim and using the weighbridge figure from that would likely be misinterpreted by the DVLA as the 'basic' weight and thus what's left would not be deemed to be enough payload - the only reason for doing a 'fully loaded' weight is so that the OP knows that what he packs, who he takes etc, doesn't take him over the 3500kg limit which I think he probably knows already but if not then this would be for his own information, not DVLA.
 
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Minxy Girl

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Since 1996 we've had Elddis, Swift, Rapido, Rimor, Chausson MHs and Autocruise & Globecar PVCs
It came out of the converters at 3800kg.
All CI riviera 181 were around 3800/3850kg

It's a 6 berth, 6 belted seat van.... Unlikely that would work on a 3500kg gross.
No they weren't:

 
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pappajohn

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The OP stated.... The V5 has the 'Revenue weight' as 3800kg. I have just taxed the vehicle online and paid the required fee for 3800kg revenue weight.


:banghead: :banghead:

Do as you please..... I'm out.

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Dec 6, 2019
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We’re new. Bought first MH March 2021
As BB has said, you should be able to do it yourself. Just send an explanatory letter saying you want it down-plating listing the documents you have included (V5C, Trigano doc etc) and confirm the weight when it was produced and that no additional items have been added as this will be an important factor.

There is no need to get a company involved (which will cost you anyway), but if you do feel the need there are 2 that are know to do this:

SVTech (as mentioned by Jim) but can be expensive
Van Weight Engineering who will likely be cheaper:


As for it being quicker if you use a company, it likely won't make any difference and could possibly take longer as you wait for them to do 'their stuff' - once you get the confirmation info back of them you still have to send it all to the DVLA yourself anyway.
VWE is considerably cheaper than SVTech. They have just done the paperwork to enable me to uprate our new Adria. Very quick and efficient. £150
 
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Minxy Girl

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Aug 22, 2007
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Since 1996 we've had Elddis, Swift, Rapido, Rimor, Chausson MHs and Autocruise & Globecar PVCs
The OP stated.... The V5 has the 'Revenue weight' as 3800kg. I have just taxed the vehicle online and paid the required fee for 3800kg revenue weight.


:banghead: :banghead:

Do as you please..... I'm out.
Don't go dinting the wall too much! :LOL:

He doesn't say it was 3800kg at first registration though ... you assumed that. From research on the web for a vehicle of his age on the older cab there doesn't appear to be any reason why it can't be downplated to 3500kg and usable at that weight.
 
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20+ years. Previously Hymer B654 and Hymer S660 both c/w tow-bars.
Hi
I am new to this Forum and also motor homes. I have recently bought a 2004 CI Riviera 181 and was aware of the problem re weights and driving licence.

The vehicle has a single plate on the front slam panel stating it's plated weight is 3500kg together with the other details - max all up weight and axle weights.

This information is duplicated on the side of the drivers seat.

The V5 has the 'Revenue weight' as 3800kg. I have just taxed the vehicle online and paid the required fee for 3800kg revenue weight.

I have the original documentation that gives a weighbridge weight of 2922kg and an 'empty weight declared for registration' at 3005kg

I am 73 yrs old ( wife is 75 ) and neither of us has carried forward the C1 entitlement - the others insured to drive the vehicle took their driving test too late to also have the C1 entitlement.

If I leave things as they are on the V5 but always keep the weight below 3500kg do we commit an offence - we are complying with the Driving Licence Regs as the weight is below the 3500kg - and the vehicle is plated for 3500kg. We pay the lower amount of VEL because of the stated 'Revenue weight'

I thought I would ask 'the Forum' before possibly DVLA as without a doubt they will go for the 3500kg change to gain more VEL fees.

The strange thing is the actual plate - why if the 'Revenue weight' is 3800kg then surely there should be a plate on the slam panel beside the 3500kg plate. Also if someone legally drove the vehicle using the 3800kg and was stopped & weighed the plate is showing 3500kg and not 3800kg

Hope someone can help with this - be most grateful

Cheers
Stewart
Do you have a photo of the VIN plate? It sounds to me like there are a few possible issues....

I can say that I’m 76 this year and still managed to regain my C1E just with a medical (which was a joke).
https://spinner28.wixsite.com/tonys-towing-trivia/post/weights-vin-plates. #TowLegal #TowSafe

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tomsgrandpa

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Apr 20, 2021
5
24
Funster No
80,543
MH
CI Riviera 181
Hi Members and all those who have posted for me.
Thought I would give an update.
First of all I would like to clear up the issue of the Revenue weight being 3800kg. I am the third owner of the motorhome - all owners living in West Cornwall including me. The original owners just used the motorhome locally and then sold it on to a family man. I presume he was the one who changed the Revenue weight - as far as I can see the chassis can be either but of course the 3800kg saves over £100 in VEL over having a lighter 3500kg limit ( bit of reverse logic there ) although the Class changes from PLG to private heavy goods. So the vehicle has never been out of Cornwall and has done 7000 warranted miles in 17 years. My problem is that it is shared by my youngest daughters family and us oldies - getting a licence upgrade would not be a problem for me but it would mean quite an expense for my daughter to take the necessary test - so the Revenue weight had to be changed.

I followed the advice of Barclay Basher - I wrote a letter to DVLA on 21/04/2021 explaining the situation , filled out the necessary form - ( V70 ), scanned & printed the original 2004 weighbridge document from Fiat and completed section 1 of the V5C. I then also enclosed a cheque for the difference in the 2 Revenue weights as the vehicle is already taxed. I wanted to cover as many avenues as I could to prevent any questions from DVLA as that is how delays are incurred..

I had one enquiry back from a very nice lady at DVLA who just wanted to know if I minded only taxing the vehicle for 11 months as a month had already passed - she then sent a refund !!.

Yesterday 26/05/2021 I received my new V5C back from DVLA all changed showing the Revenue wight as 3500kg - result

So the application took 5 weeks from start to finish, has been completed very successfully and completely hassle free. All documentation including the original 2004 weighbridge ticket were accepted without qurestion.

I would like to thank all members who helped or gave advice and I hope that this summary is useful to anyone else who contemplates the same change and doesn't mind spending the 30 minutes it takes to write the initial letter ( I am a slow typer !! )

Kind regards
Stewart
'tomsgrandpa'
 
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pappajohn

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Not wanting to worry you but now it's been downplated to 3500kg it's time to load up in holiday trim including ALL passengers who may use it and go to a weighbridge.
If it is over 3500kg and stopped for a weight check at the roadside you may have to abandon goods or passengers at the roadside depending how much overweight.
If its a considerable amount overweight you will also be stopped from continuing your journey and get a fine plus penalty points.

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Emmit

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Please remember, at any checheck made by VOSA, if you (or your daughter and family) are found to be less than 5% overweight of 3500kgs (and that's another 175kgs on top of the 3500kgs) then they will not take action, other than advise the driver.

Might I suggest that you put the van in holiday trim, without water (you don't need water to make the van move) so that you know exactly where you stand. You already know your dry weights. Now adjust your carrying to comply with legislation.
 
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