Payloads?

[veevee]

Looking at a few used A Class motorhome payloads for up to 3.5 t it appears as though even shorter vehicles around 6m don't have too much capacity, anywhere between say 350 - 450 kgs for those with Alko lightweight chassis.

It's not always clear what the manufacturers net weight figures are based on either. Is there a set nominal/regulated additional weight added to the basic vehicle totally empty, say 200 or 300 kgs with 2 persons with average luggage some water and fuel in the van, or is it a free for all with each manufacturer allowed to include or exclude whatever they wish in which case there would be no comparison between manufacturers and models?

 

[Judge Mental]

I'm researching this myself and have identified the only A class that I like that have a chance of working practically @3500 in my opinion are the following all between 6 - 6.55 metres:

Hymer exsis I models.
414
474
520

and my favourite so far

Carthago i 138

being a diabetic limited to 3500 you take this stuff seriously

 

[ASel]

Its all in the small print, the there is the +- 5% so what could be a 400kg pay load can shrink to 245kg.

 

[Judge Mental]

Its all in the small print, the there is the +- 5% so what could be a 400kg pay load can shrink to 245kg.

good point! Hymer come out as being more reliable in this regard. the carthago does worry me

 

[treetops1]

Most vans can be up graded to take more weight and its only a paper exercise ,you can also reverse the exercise if you want to before selling ect.Up grading can also reduce your road tax.lol

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[veevee]

"Most vans can be up graded to take more weight"

But do most people have the C1 license for over 3.5 t ?

 

[DanielFord]

"Most vans can be up graded to take more weight"

But do most people have the C1 license for over 3.5 t ?

It is getting less common it would seem. If I were in the position of being forced to buy a van which is under 3.5 tonnes or taking the test, I would take the test to be honest.
The cost of training and the licence fee seems to pale into insignificance against the cost of the van. I do appreciate that there are some over 70's who would not be able to pass the medical for C1, and therefore are limited to sub 3.5tonnes.

 

[Detnor]

I've been through this also. We have a 6m Hymer 504, nobody (including Hymer) could give us even an approximate weight with any degree of confidence. The only way to get the weight was a visit to my local trading standards weighbridge (no charge if all I wanted was to get the weights).
Fully loaded, including water, diesel and passenger, it's 100kg inside the 3500kg limit. Taking the water down to a usuable travel amount, gained another 40kg, so a bit of capacity left.
To go up to 3700kg is a paper exercise (SVTech charge £260+VAT), no changes to the van needed.
I thought about a new van, but like this one so much, going down the uprate route.

 

[Chris]

If you can upgrade your van just by submitting paperwork, why do VOSA ( or whoever) make such a song and dance about being overweight?

 

[Judge Mental]

If you can upgrade your van just by submitting paperwork, why do VOSA ( or whoever) make such a song and dance about being overweight?

good question! my van is on a maxi 4250 kg chassis plated at 3500 kg

10 days ago sweated blood greeting it down to 3500 for trip to Spain after weighbridge visit. 3500 an archaic nonsense

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[gus-lopez]

If you can upgrade your van just by submitting paperwork, why do VOSA ( or whoever) make such a song and dance about being overweight?

Exactly ! Utter nonsense,

good question! my van is on a maxi 4250 kg chassis plated at 3500 kg

10 days ago sweated blood greeting it down to 3500 for trip to Spain after weighbridge visit. 3500 an archaic nonsense

This & the recent other thread on weights got me thinking about a friend of mine who carries all & everything.( Turned up here with 5 full gas cylinders once. & he has onboard gaslow ?)
So when he was on the phone the other night I asked him about weights.
" Good God I don't bother with any of that. What is in it is in it "
He said he'd never ever weighed this one , a Compass, or the previous hymer.

& there is me worried that I am o/loaded empty.

 

[laneside]

From our experience beware of any manufactures figures quoted, our Rapido 791ff with huge garage was registered from new at 3500Kg and upon putting it over the weigh bridge I could put 40 Kg in the garage before the 2000 Kg rear axle limited was reached. Yes we uprated it to 3850 Kg but had to put air suspension on and different rear tyres. We could never get the front axle weight anywhere near the load limit but how much stuff can you put in the front and still drive the flipping thing

 

[Judge Mental]

Exactly ! Utter nonsense,


This & the recent other thread on weights got me thinking about a friend of mine who carries all & everything.( Turned up here with 5 full gas cylinders once. & he has onboard gaslow ?)
So when he was on the phone the other night I asked him about weights.
" Good God I don't bother with any of that. What is in it is in it "
He said he'd never ever weighed this one , a Compass, or the previous hymer.

& there is me worried that I am o/loaded empty.

all fine until the proverbial hits the fan though ain't it!

depending on chassis if he is overloaded. van stoping distance and handling can be affected? plus if anything unfortunate happens an accident etc.... probably not insured either! So I always weigh before every trip

 

[veevee]

I have a good reason to start this thread as a while ago I was stopped by the Port Police at Dover arriving from Calais, I was suspected of being overloaded in a working Ducato van, I guess from their questions they thought we were running booze but we had no tobacco or alcohol aboard. It was a painful experience in all respects as the police made life as difficult as possible too ( I have a clean license, never been arrested and pay my taxes).
The van was new to me and I assumed it had more capacity than it had (therefore I don't assume anything re vehicle weights now), but no excuses as I should know what I was driving. I was probably as complacent as gus-lopez's friend and like everyone we get away with lot's of things all the time, but once bitten twice shy.

The fine was heavy and I believe a second offence would be a financial disaster.

The point that laneside made with his/her motorhome is heard quite frequently, so as this is a safety issue (try driving an overloaded anything on a twisty road), why is there no regulation to force the motorhome manufacturers to state quite clearly using an agreed method what we can legally add to our motorhomes and stay within the law.

It's not right that you have to buy the motorhome whether new or used, fill it with what you think you will use, take it to a weighbridge and find you don't have enough payload, at this point you have already coughed up your life savings to buy the thing to find it is almost useless.

Have to excuse the rant as my experience at Dover Port seared itself on my brain. I know that many motorhomes will have plenty of payload capacity (we own a 4.6 tonnes Hymer so not troubled by this), but I guarantee that more have a surprisingly small payload capacity than their owners expect. We are helping to find a motorhome for a family member with a 3.5 t license so this question is important to us too.

One idea for used motorhomes sold through either a dealer or privately. By law we should take the van as presented to the customer to a weighbridge before sale. It would not add too much to the selling cost and the van that you look to buy will have an exact payload for you to consider. On reflection the used motorhome dealer and the private individual will be penalised for information not supplied by the manufacturer, ah well.

 

[Puddleduck]

A weighbridge ticket was something we asked for when looking at used motorhomes. If the dealer refused we moved on..... One van we really liked had so many extras that just the driver put it overweight.

In the end we bought a Chausson and found the quoted weights pretty accurate.

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[martin2603]

Looking at MIRO weights is ok but if it is a used MH , it will not include the aftermarket additions: Awning, Extra Gas Bottle, Extra leisure battery, solar panel , spare wheel, ect, these items can demolish the payload.
If you get a weight ticket be sure to get the axle weights, much more relevant than gross figure.

 

[cruiser]

saw a m/home pulled into a weigh bridge. on the M6. the amount of stuff that they made the owner. take out of it . quite a pile. he had to wait for another van . not a happy camper.

 

[Lenny HB]

Exactly ! Utter nonsense,


This & the recent other thread on weights got me thinking about a friend of mine who carries all & everything.( Turned up here with 5 full gas cylinders once. & he has onboard gaslow ?)
So when he was on the phone the other night I asked him about weights.
" Good God I don't bother with any of that. What is in it is in it "
He said he'd never ever weighed this one , a Compass, or the previous hymer.

& there is me worried that I am o/loaded empty.

I take it he is happy to drive uninsured then. There are maximum limits for gas in vehicles which varies country to country I'm sure he was well over, also on cross channel routes you can't carry more than 50kg.

 

[Lenny HB]

I've been through this also. We have a 6m Hymer 504, nobody (including Hymer) could give us even an approximate weight with any degree of confidence. The only way to get the weight was a visit to my local trading standards weighbridge (no charge if all I wanted was to get the weights).
Fully loaded, including water, diesel and passenger, it's 100kg inside the 3500kg limit. Taking the water down to a usuable travel amount, gained another 40kg, so a bit of capacity left.
To go up to 3700kg is a paper exercise (SVTech charge £260+VAT), no changes to the van needed.
I thought about a new van, but like this one so much, going down the uprate route.

Hymer's C of C will give the MIRO and the Technical MIRO, the later gives the weight with factory fitted extras and including driver at 75kg, 20Lt water, 1 x Aluminum 11kg gas cylinder & 90% fuel. Obviouly you need to add the the weight of any after market additions.

 

[Gromett]

It's not right that you have to buy the motorhome whether new or used, fill it with what you think you will use, take it to a weighbridge and find you don't have enough payload, at this point you have already coughed up your life savings to buy the thing to find it is almost useless.

It's the same when you buy any vehicle. If you buy a small car you are responsible for what you load in it. Take it to B&Q and load it up with bags of cement for your new patio you are responsible. An HGV driver is responsible for the weight of his vehicle.

The manufacturers of motorhomes do give a dry weight I believe when buying a new motorhome. However I do believe it would be useful if dealers were to actually do a proper weigh in and print this as part of the documentation.

Did you know that most MOT places now do a weighing during the MOT. Just got mine done and as a fulltimer I was interested in this. My all in weight which means full water and Diesel plus everything I own in the world was 3090KG. I still have 410KG to play with. Both axles were within 30KG of each other so the weight is nicely balanced. I think the solution is therefore build your own motorhome

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[veevee]

"My all in weight which means full water and Diesel plus everything I own in the world was 3090KG. I still have 410KG to play with. Both axles were within 30KG of each other so the weight is nicely balanced. I think the solution is therefore build your own motorhome "

Not trying to be funny Gromett (ok yes I am), but what is you live in, a roller skate?

I think that most (not full timers) would expect to be able to include some of the niceties of life to go on holiday with, to have to leave the wife and kids behind because you want to take your latest toy does suggest that some motorhomes are not fit for purpose.

By the way, how and when do they weigh a vehicle during an MoT, sounds interesting.

 

[gus-lopez]

I take it he is happy to drive uninsured then. There are maximum limits for gas in vehicles which varies country to country I'm sure he was well over, also on cross channel routes you can't carry more than 50kg.

Very true ! the limit here you can carry is 15kgs ,which as a Spanish butane bottle is 12,5kg or propane 11kgs, means one !
He turned up with 2 repsol, 2 cepsa & a full calor bottle .lol
He left me 1 each of the Spanish ones !
He , like me , always runs full of water & diesel .But unlike me , he cannot pass a water tap& when he's only got half a tank starts to get worried.
He also has to drive past the Vosa weigh station they built on the M5 junction as he only lives a short distance away.

I just remembered that one year I got him to bring down 4 tyres for my mpv; a complete exhaust system; all the wife's Tesco shopping that had been home delivered ; He had that much on that he had to put stuff inside the tyre's in the garage.

Anyway this week I am going to empty mine out completely so that all that all that is in it will be as it left the factory + the awning ,half tank water & same of diesel & check what the weight is on the weighbridge.
At least then I will have a clue as to how accurate the unladen weight is ?

I have a good reason to start this thread as a while ago I was stopped by the Port Police at Dover arriving from Calais, I was suspected of being overloaded in a working Ducato van,.

I take it you ended up in " the shed " ?

Bloke I know here has a long wheel based sprinter.Can't remember what model but he was only telling me the other day that he had 4500kgs springs fitted to the back & even when he is overloaded there is still 10" between top of tyre & the wheel arch.
They'll throw the book at him if he gets caught.

Did you know that most MOT places now do a weighing during the MOT.

Don't weigh them here just have a photo complete with registration on bottom of test sheet of you entering the teat lane. No idea what that is all about.

 

[Dave F]

Hi, I'm a newbie to all this weight business...

Just been to weighbridge and Front axle is 1480, rear is 1350, gross is 2830.

That's with full water, fuel, gas, 2 bikes on back and me.

I calculate I therefore have well over 1/2 ton free (670 kg) to add a 25 kg dog, 70 kg wife, and bedding, clothes, and food.

This seems plenty to me or am I missing something?

PS can anyone explain these plates? - theyre all I can find on the vehicle.. - see attached pics...

View media item 14373View media item 14372View media item 14371

 

[DP+JAY]

The first & second look like tyre pressures.
The metal plate shows front axle max of 1690kg rear axle max of 1750kg & an overall max of 3200kg
The train max (inc. trailer) is4800kg.
3200 -2830 = 370? not 670

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I have a good reason to start this thread as a while ago I was stopped by the Port Police at Dover arriving from Calais, I was suspected of being overloaded in a working Ducato van, I guess from their questions they thought we were running booze but we had no tobacco or alcohol aboard. It was a painful experience in all respects as the police made life as difficult as possible too ( I have a clean license, never been arrested and pay my taxes).
The van was new to me and I assumed it had more capacity than it had (therefore I don't assume anything re vehicle weights now), but no excuses as I should know what I was driving. I was probably as complacent as gus-lopez's friend and like everyone we get away with lot's of things all the time, but once bitten twice shy.

The fine was heavy and I believe a second offence would be a financial disaster.

The point that laneside made with his/her motorhome is heard quite frequently, so as this is a safety issue (try driving an overloaded anything on a twisty road), why is there no regulation to force the motorhome manufacturers to state quite clearly using an agreed method what we can legally add to our motorhomes and stay within the law.

It's not right that you have to buy the motorhome whether new or used, fill it with what you think you will use, take it to a weighbridge and find you don't have enough payload, at this point you have already coughed up your life savings to buy the thing to find it is almost useless.

Have to excuse the rant as my experience at Dover Port seared itself on my brain. I know that many motorhomes will have plenty of payload capacity (we own a 4.6 tonnes Hymer so not troubled by this), but I guarantee that more have a surprisingly small payload capacity than their owners expect. We are helping to find a motorhome for a family member with a 3.5 t license so this question is important to us too.

.

Dover Harbour board Police are a private force working for the managing director and board of directors, they should have to call a REAL policeman if they suspect you of a crime. They have a very dubious right of arrest and have the level of authority as a special, any prosecution should be by Kent Police. They can start the job and be POLICE officer the next day.The purpose of them was to open and close the barriers originally. Some of them really fancy themselves in Town driving around with their flash vans with blue light on the roof.

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[GWAYGWAY]

Another thing is that the load includes the used Grey water and there is another reason to dump it as soon as possible especially over the boots of the VOSA inspector.

 

[PeteH]

Another thing is that the load includes the used Grey water and there is another reason to dump it as soon as possible especially over the boots of the VOSA inspector.

But the nice VOSA man gave me a Frenzel Lens for the "wrong" side of my R-V!!.
(or should that be Freznel?)
Pete

 

[gus-lopez]

PS can anyone explain these plates? - theyre all I can find on the vehicle.. - see attached pics...

View media item 14373View media item 14372View media item 14371

First is automatic braking pressures in bar ? Dependant on the rear axle static loading. No idea what that is all about.
Second is tyre pressures 5 bar or 72,5 psi.
Third is as Jay said & you only have 3200kgs of mam so as he also said you only have 370kgs to load.

 

[DP+JAY]

First is automatic braking pressures in bar ? Dependant on the rear axle static loading. No idea what that is all about.
Second is tyre pressures 5 bar or 72,5 psi.
Third is as Jay said & you only have 3200kgs of mam so as he also said you only have 370kgs to load.

You're right,that is the braking pressures from the load sensing valve.

 

[Minxy]

Hi, I'm a newbie to all this weight business...

Just been to weighbridge and Front axle is 1480, rear is 1350, gross is 2830.

That's with full water, fuel, gas, 2 bikes on back and me.

I calculate I therefore have well over 1/2 ton free (670 kg) to add a 25 kg dog, 70 kg wife, and bedding, clothes, and food.

This seems plenty to me or am I missing something?

PS can anyone explain these plates? - theyre all I can find on the vehicle.. - see attached pics...

View media item 14371

If the plate is correct, as has been stated above, you actually have a maximum on each axle of:

1690 front - you have 1480 so max of 210kg left
1750 rear - you have 1350 so max of 400kg left

BUT a combined overall absolute maximum weight of 3200kg (ie your MTPLM = Maximum Technically Permissable Laden Mass) NOT 3500kg - this means when you weighed it you had a weight of 2830kg so there's a remaining payload of 370kg, not 670kg. Depending on your chassis it may be possible to uprate it to 3400kg or 3500kg if you need it to get the extra payload.

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