New thread for new approach. Full upgrade. (2 Viewers)

[Lenny HB]

No attached PDF.

You don't need the Bluesmart charger the Multiplus 3000 has a 120 amp charger built in.
A 500 amp Smart Shunt will do the job a BMV712 might be a better option.
The Orion B2B is only 30 amp a bit small for 600 ah of Lithium have a look at the Votronic range.
Alternative to the Cerbo GX you could use a Rasberry Pi for a fraction of the price.

 

[PeteMallorca]

Hi Lenny HB , I bought the charger before the Multiplus II. I'm living in the van, while I'm doing this and I use the charger with a generator.

Again, I bought the SmartShunt and added it to the gel battery system before planning the final Lifepo4 system. I bought the 1000A to be on the safe side, not knowing anything about solar.

I already have the B2B. I was a bit concerned about the 30A output but I will lay out the equipment so that I can add a second 30A, if needed.

Again, the Cerbo GX is already fitted and in use with the gel battery system. Including the shunt, battery sense and SmartSolar.

All of the parts listed, I have, ready to install.

I've taken some screenshots of the Panel specs. What is your opinion on these? For my roof, they are the perfect size and the weight seems quite good to me.

Thanks.

 

[autorouter]

As Lenny HB says, I think you'll find the BlueSmart mains charger is not used much if you have a Multiplus. The charger in the Multiplus is very good, and is high power. There are many advantages to having a coordinated charger and inverter like the Multiplus.

The charger at full output will take 6 or 7 amps from the mains hookup. If you are on a limited hookup, say 6A, you can set the Multiplus to limit the input from the hookup to say 5A. It will ensure that the charger doesn't take more than 5A.

If you switch on a load that takes say 3A, it will cut back the charger power so that the total draw from the hookup doesn't exceed 5A. Then go back up to the original power when the 3A load is off.

If you switch on a load that takes say 10A, it will stop the charger completely, take 5A from the hookup, and take the extra 5A from the batteries/inverter, so no tripping the hookup post. All this happens automatically. You can easily set the hookup limit from the Cerbo display panel.

It works the same with a generator, so you can use loads in the MH without worrying that you are overloading the generator output.

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[Lenny HB]

Those panels are domestic panels, no experience of them but they are huge and weigh 25 kg, how the hell are you going to get them on the roof.
With all that gear going in I take you are on the heavy chassis.

 

[cyberyacht]

All that weight high up? I know Majorca is renowned for swingers but.....

 

[PeteMallorca]

Those panels are domestic panels, no experience of them but they are huge and weigh 25 kg, how the hell are you going to get them on the roof.
With all that gear going in I take you are on the heavy chassis.

Thanks Lenny, Weight has been a big concern. I've got a twin wheel transit chassis but it's going to be overweight and need to have a serious diet, when I know exactly what the final weight will be.

I'm having a lot of problems finding lighter panels over here. Also I'm not going to have a lot of free space on the roof (photo attached). There are 2 huge skylights and a small one at the front. I'm taking out the roof air con and I will have an open area of 2m20cm x 2m20cm. Apart from trying to jigsaw different sized panels, on different parts of the roof, and 1 or 2 more MPPT's, I'm having problems trying to get enough solar up there.

Any suggestions?

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[PeteMallorca]

All that weight high up? I know Majorca is renowned for swingers but.....

Ha Ha cyberyacht , but seriously, the weight does worry me.

 

[Lenny HB]

I assume you are at least 4 - 4.5 ton can you uprate it further?

 

[PeteMallorca]

I assume you are at least 4 - 4.5 ton can you uprate it further?

It's rated at 3.5 ton Lenny HB and at the last ITV (MOT), it was 15kilo over. Its got 5 batteries now, 2 under the drivers seat, for starting and auxiliary. Then it's got 3 x 100AH Gel House Batteries, each one weighing 30kilo (total 90k). They will come out when the Lifepo4 is connected. The 3 new Lifepo4 batteries are 200AH each and the 3 weigh 70.5 Kilo. Obviously the Multiplus II and other new parts will add up.

Saying that, when the table and the old batteries are out. With other things that I've already removed, add up to about 160Kilo (each item weighed seperately).

On the roof there are 2 x 100W panels (old ones) and the roof air con (Dometic B2200 / B1600), that would be removed if I can fit the bigger panels between the 2 big skylights.

I'm renewing all the cables for the solar and 240v AC. I'm expecting to lose some weight from redundant cables but I might lose that because of installing the correct cables.

There are some internal fixtures that I want to remove. The lounge table is a good example, it's 20.7Kilo on its own. The Solar install is the most important part and I'll have to change things to lose any excess weight.

Finding panels to keep 600AH of lifepo4 charged up, is a real task over here. I've been looking for close to 1000W because I think that should keep me safe for a few cloudy days.

I can't raise the weight limit, for some reason. Even though my axle weights are considerably more than 3500 and it already has air suspension on the rear axle. I'm presuming it's a Spanish restriction.

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[Lenny HB]

I don't see how you can run it at 3500kg legally even with your weight reduction mods as the ITV test weight would have been an empty van.
By the time its loaded for a trip with 2 people that will add at least 500kg.

 

[PeteMallorca]

I don't see how you can run it at 3500kg legally even with your weight reduction mods as the ITV test weight would have been an empty van.
By the time its loaded for a trip with 2 people that will add at least 500kg.

I have been quite worried about that Lenny HB I have have been thinking that my only option could be fitting a tow bar and towing an enclosed trailer. I might be able to get some panels on top of that too .

 

[cyberyacht]

Do you really need that many batteries? I'd have thought 400AH of lithium was approaching overkill.

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[Lenny HB]

Do you really need that many batteries? I'd have thought 400AH of lithium was approaching overkill.

I'm going for 460ah when I get the Compact line.

 

[PeteMallorca]

Do you really need that many batteries? I'd have thought 400AH of lithium was approaching overkill.

To be honest cyberyacht , we can have a few days of heavy cloud and rain, during this part of the year. Normally 400 would be enough but being a double lung transplant patient, living permanently in the van, I need to be very careful.

When I started on this adventure it was very confusing. Now that I have learnt a lot, it's more confusing .

I guess that if the battery bank is overkill, that's not such a problem. Replacing the storage is what I must work out.

 

[cyberyacht]

Reliance on medical kit puts a different complexion on it.

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[Raul]

Hi Pete,
I have looked at the spec of those panels and they are heavy. I have two 300w panels across on the roof and I’m well under 3T. Add a multiplus 400ah LFP, lots of gadgets and don’t suffer with overweight. The panels you want are 30mm frames no bigger, in that category for this size are panasonic ( discontinued) sharp, and LG. I would try to source two LG panels, they are super light for their size at 18,19kg each.
The batteries if you can locate them by the wheel arch and if possible one each side. We have them on one side by the wheel arch at 56kg for 400ah. Yes at the time I thought this is plenty, but I would love to have 600ah plus. I have made weight savings elsewhere as we built ours from scratch, everything has been weight checked before it got in. The main saving was on thin wall and ceiling panelling on light ribs, and supper strong but light moorland ply for furniture with high pressure laminate. It was expensive but worth it in the long run. In the grand scheme the electrics are a fraction of everything else. Fit the best you can afford from the start, so you avoid early upgrades.

 

[PeteMallorca]

Hi Pete,
I have looked at the spec of those panels and they are heavy. I have two 300w panels across on the roof and I’m well under 3T. Add a multiplus 400ah LFP, lots of gadgets and don’t suffer with overweight. The panels you want are 30mm frames no bigger, in that category for this size are panasonic ( discontinued) sharp, and LG. I would try to source two LG panels, they are super light for their size at 18,19kg each.
The batteries if you can locate them by the wheel arch and if possible one each side. We have them on one side by the wheel arch at 56kg for 400ah. Yes at the time I thought this is plenty, but I would love to have 600ah plus. I have made weight savings elsewhere as we built ours from scratch, everything has been weight checked before it got in. The main saving was on thin wall and ceiling panelling on light ribs, and supper strong but light moorland ply for furniture with high pressure laminate. It was expensive but worth it in the long run. In the grand scheme the electrics are a fraction of everything else. Fit the best you can afford from the start, so you avoid early upgrades.

Thanks Raul i'll search for the LG panels. Its just so hard to get things shipped to spain and even harder to the island. if you see any reasonable suppliers, please forward a link.

I'm trying to buy the best, for the job. That's why it's taking such a long time. Living with the system that I have, is a nightmare. Often having power shut down when the house batteries are good voltage.

I will remove other luxuries, to have enough solar to be comfortable and not worry.

The entire system that i have now is a mess of "Add on's". But not for long

 

[PeteMallorca]

Getting closer guys!!!

I will be using the Blue Sea Battery switch below, as the main battery cut off, after the 400A T fuse and before the Lynx distributor, then the Multiplus II 3000 12v.

I've read a lot about the enitial power surge when charging the capacitors in the Multiplus II, when it's first connected. I've seen the use of big resistors, to power the Multiplus II and charge the capacitors without the surge.

I've bought 2 of the resisters below (100W 10 Ohm 5%) and I was thinking to fit one or both across the main switch, via a momentary switch, to make it easier and safer to initiate the instalation and if the system is off-line for some time.

What are your opinions on this and if you agree, one or two resistors and what size of momentary switch would you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

Pete

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[PeteMallorca]

Getting closer guys!!!

I will be using the Blue Sea Battery switch below, as the main battery cut off, after the 400A T fuse and before the Lynx distributor, then the Multiplus II 3000 12v.

I've read a lot about the enitial power surge when charging the capacitors in the Multiplus II, when it's first connected. I've seen the use of big resistors, to power the Multiplus II and charge the capacitors without the surge.

I've bought 2 of the resisters below (100W 10 Ohm 5%) and I was thinking to fit one or both across the main switch, via a momentary switch, to make it easier and safer to initiate the instalation and if the system is off-line for some time.

What are your opinions on this and if you agree, one or two resistors and what size of momentary switch would you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

Pete

View attachment 723611 View attachment 723615

Any opinions on using this idea?

 

[bobnick]

What's he saying?

 

[Raul]

I use a pencil sharpened both ends for initial connection of multiplus. Graphite in pencil is a semiconductor, and works like a resistor. Once connected you will never need to disconnect the 12v again, unless a emergency. Multiplus should be powered on/off by its switch, or external remote: ie GX, touch screen, VRM, or Digital GX switch. Never switch off multiplus by main battery switch. That serves to isolate the battery for maintenance/ service or emergencies.
Hope this helps.

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[Lenny HB]

I use a pencil sharpened both ends for initial connection of multiplus. Graphite in pencil is a semiconductor, and works like a resistor. Once connected you will never need to disconnect the 12v again, unless a emergency. Multiplus should be powered on/off by its switch, or external remote: ie GX, touch screen, VRM, or Digital GX switch. Never switch off multiplus by main battery switch. That serves to isolate the battery for maintenance/ service or emergencies.
Hope this helps.

But what about when you disconnect your Lithiums when the van is not in use as lots of people do?

 

[Raul]

But what about when you disconnect your Lithiums when the van is not in use as lots of people do?

Sorry Lenny, I never do that. Why disconnect? If, for some reasons disconnect is needed, on power up repeat procedure. It’s simple to undo one bolt on +ve and recharge the capacitors. To me that happens when I need to upgrade/ maintenance only. In normal operation my inverters stay connected 24/7 for the life of installation or inverter. You can still turn it off, but the 12v supply remains connected, always.

 

[Lenny HB]

Why disconnect?

I'm under the impression it is best with Lithium when not in use to disconnect and leave them at 50-80% SOC.

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[Raul]

You can disconnect the charger if you don’t want to raise the SOC for 3-6 months, but the inverter switched off, it’s not a problem.

 

[Lenny HB]

You can disconnect the charger if you don’t want to raise the SOC for 3-6 months, but the inverter switched off, it’s not a problem.

With the inverter switched off but the power left connected what is the standby current?

 

[Raul]

Tiny, insignificant. The smart shunt can’t pick it up as is so small, it’s well below bmv resolution of 50ma. The bmv can see 0,5w, any lower won’t see it. You will need lab equipment to measure and account for that kind of consumption.

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[PeteMallorca]

Good news!!! I'm back. I've been out of action for some time, due to complications, following a double lung transplant in April last year. All seems to be sorted out now.

I've not bee totally Inactive. I got help to remove the 3 way fridge, from about 2008 . Put a new 240v compressor fridge in its place and added a victron Phoenix 12 l 500 inverter, as a dedicated inverterfor the fridge.

The old batteries must have got low, too many times and are now struggling.

So...... I've found a supplier for 95mm² and 70mm² cable, Order placed yesterday. I need to order the RCBO's and RCD's but I'm torn between suppliers at the moment.

I'm going for 2 x 500W JA SOLAR MONO PERC HC, after finding a reasonable supplier. They are not light but considering what will be removed, its not much more.

2 New panels = 55.6k.
Remove roof Air Con = 30 - 34k
Adding 18.6 - 22.6k

2 Old panels = 6 - 8k each, 12 - 16k, being removed.

Leaving:
lowest possible = 2.6k added
Highest possible = 10.6k added.

Let the fun begin

 

[eurajohn]

Good news!!! I'm back. I've been out of action for some time, due to complications, following a double lung transplant in April last year. All seems to be sorted out now.

I've not bee totally Inactive. I got help to remove the 3 way fridge, from about 2008 . Put a new 240v compressor fridge in its place and added a victron Phoenix 12 l 500 inverter, as a dedicated inverterfor the fridge.

The old batteries must have got low, too many times and are now struggling.

So...... I've found a supplier for 95mm² and 70mm² cable, Order placed yesterday. I need to order the RCBO's and RCD's but I'm torn between suppliers at the moment.

I'm going for 2 x 500W JA SOLAR MONO PERC HC, after finding a reasonable supplier. They are not light but considering what will be removed, its not much more.

2 New panels = 55.6k.
Remove roof Air Con = 30 - 34k
Adding 18.6 - 22.6k

2 Old panels = 6 - 8k each, 12 - 16k, being removed.

Leaving:
lowest possible = 2.6k added
Highest possible = 10.6k added.

Let the fun begin

This company are very good for supply and competitive prices (in Spain) Coelectrix

 

[PeteMallorca]

This company are very good for supply and competitive prices (in Spain) Coelectrix

Thanks eurajohn. I wish that I had found them a long time ago. I was looking at importing from Germany and other places. Placed most of my order on Saturday.

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