Lithium or Not?

[missmollie]

In our Knaus Sun ti I currently have 2 x 100ah Banner batteries which have died after 3 years, I have 200w solar power through a Votronic MPPT controller and the built in truma charger. We do like to spend several days off hook up when we are away, we use an Avtex tv, led lighting and truma blown air heating.
I am thinking of getting 1 x 100ah Lifepo4 battery, do the battery experts on here think that this would be OK for us power wise or, should I just replace the lead acid ones?

 

[Lenny HB]

Depends on what time of year you are spending several days off grid. If you are going to treat the Lithium kindly and not full charge or discharge it you will have less available power than from to lead acid batteries but will have the advantage of being able to charge it a lot quicker.
With Lithium you are going to have to fit a B2B if you haven't got one, a probable a new mains charger and to make full use more solar.

 

[Two on Tour]

Hook up, what's hook up ?

Mid April sunshine and pumping nearly 16 amp into our lithium.

 

[two]

If payload is a problem, Lithium will save a few kg but you will need to change the 'support' system.
Otherwise, I'd stick with the technology your van was designed to use.
How long might you keep it, anyway? One more set of batteries may see you through and, by that time, we'll all know more about the alternatives and prices are likely to be lower.

 

[the1andonly]

I'll tell you in 2 yrs time.
Just done mine.
The one thing ive learned after the fact is it may be more difficult to add capacity ie a 2nd battery due to the posibility of conflicting bms issues. Ask the battery supplier about this before buying.
First thoughts were /are 100Ah should be enough but it does make more sence to get 150 or 200 in a single battery.
A bluetooth bms also adds to the warm fuzy fealings.
I have 100Ah 30A b2b 450w solar (plus 100w on garden waiting to go back up)
I dont expect to use mains so wont replace that. On the odd occasion i may need it i have a 10A lithium battery charger
As two i concidered just bunging in a couple of cheap Pd and waiting for prices to come down, but ive been slowly upgrading and intend keeping van until grim reaper comes (or body gives up forces change).

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[Tombola]

I dont even hookup on the drive anymore since i added the lithium 200ah with bluetooth bms and 360 solar on the roof.
Victon orion b2b, Victorn Mppt 110-30, Victron multi stage charger and 2000-4000 inverter.(chines) but am thinkkng shoudl have gone victron combined with charger that I have now learned can autoswitch over to invertor when on ehu or not without the need for the auto relay I ftted seperately.

I thickened up all the pre installed cable where neccessary as per advice here Lenny HB made such a difference.

So short answer if you want it when you want it, then YES from me.

 

[Ivory55]

Also after paying all the money out for lithium and a different charger etc , how long to get your money back and are you thinking of changing vans. It might be cheaper and easier to just replace like for like .

 

[the1andonly]

5 mins ago at 12v=250 effy 56%
33ow panel 16,8A 59% effy
120w 5.8A 69.6w 58% effy

 

[Richard n Ann]

I wouldn't bother with lithium yet. I've got a couple of phones with failed lithium batteries, whey charge up but one suddenly switches off when it gets down to 60%, started acting up at 3 years old, imagine spending a grand on a battery that lasts 3 years.
We aren't heavy users though so wouldn't benefit anyway.

 

[the1andonly]

Also after paying all the money out for lithium and a different charger etc , how long to get your money back and are you thinking of changing vans. It might be cheaper and easier to just replace like for like .

I dont think its a question of straight ecconomics. Jim and eddievanbitz answered that quite well in the magazine articles a while ago

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[Two on Tour]

Also after paying all the money out for lithium and a different charger etc , how long to get your money back and are you thinking of changing vans. It might be cheaper and easier to just replace like for like .

Not always down to money, for us it was the big gain in performance and usability.

 

[Tombola]

3 things really
Do you need it ?
Can you afford it
Do you want the power to be there when you want it there

if the answer is yes to all 3 then its a no brainer

 

[Ivory55]

Yes we are all different, with different budgets and needs. It was just a suggestion to think about.

 

[Minxy]

Why not get a couple of gels instead - have a look at Tayna who do Exide and Sonnerschein which are produced by the same manufacturer and are virtually the same - the latter used to be a bit cheaper but not sure if that's still the case, they will give you more usable capacity than your current set up as you can discharge them to 20% if needed.

I wouldn't go with lithium yet as I still think they are a bit pricey especially if you then have to change other bits and bobs.

 

[Raul]

I wouldn't bother with lithium yet. I've got a couple of phones with failed lithium batteries, whey charge up but one suddenly switches off when it gets down to 60%, started acting up at 3 years old, imagine spending a grand on a battery that lasts 3 years.
We aren't heavy users though so wouldn't benefit anyway.

We are talking different Li chemistry here, the lifepo4 has been in use in excess of 10 years with acceptable degradation. Hence the market is picking up on this chemistry. The added history and experience makes it more reliable for long term energy storage. Even DIY EV builders uses the lifepo4 as a cost alternative to the more expensive and exotic chemistries. Lifepo4 has proven that can be cycled 10 year daily with 15-20% degradation. And that’s on full on off grid dwelling.

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[Jim]

I've got a couple of phones with failed lithium batteries,

That is a completley different technology

 

[Jim]

I wouldn't go with lithium yet as I still think they are a bit pricey

Coming down though. These are one of the best you can buy and were £1200 just a few months ago

Lithium Batteries 12V Leisure Battery (5 Year Warranty)

AL series LiFePO4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. Spec list Charge Discharge Part No Ah Capacity Charge V Current (A) (max) Current (A) (max) Bluetooth heater Series limit Dimensions (cm) LWH Weight (Kg) Battery Terminal AL1220 20Ah <14.4V 20A 40A no no 48V 19 x 7.7 x 18.7 2 M5 5mm AL1260...

sterling-power.com

 

[the1andonly]

I wouldn't go with lithium yet as I still think they are a bit pricey especially if you then have to change other bits and bobs.

You never keep your van long enough. Is this one already on borrowed time?

 

[Minxy]

You never keep your van long enough. Is this one already on borrowed time?

No, I'd just like the opportunity to use the ruddy thing though ... hopefully next month!

If I got lithium it would be transferred to the next one, just as I do with the refillable gas system.

 

[two]

Not sure it's a fair assumption to transfer things, especially where new technology is involved.
There's likely to be a better solution by then that you want to chase and, sometimes, things don't fit.
(I swapped my refillable for lighter ones this time, for example.)

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[Minxy]

Not sure it's a fair assumption to transfer things, especially where new technology is involved.
There's likely to be a better solution by then that you want to chase and, sometimes, things don't fit.
(I swapped my refillable for lighter ones this time, for example.)

My refillables have been moved from our vehicles since 2009 when we bought the first bottle, no reason to change them except for when they come to the 'expiry' date and need either checking or replacing. The small amount of kg saved by switching to lighter ones would make me more concerned about the payload limit if that was the reason for doing it.