Lights always go out and new battery flat. Please advise:):) (1 Viewer)

[Risteard]

Hi Folks,
I would really appreciate your help with this. I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato Lunar Champ A670. The problem occurs when I park up at night in a campsite and plug in the mains supply. Everything works perfectly for about an hour or so. Then all the lights go out and remain out for the rest of the night. The only things that works are the 3 sockets. The main battery becomes flat and I have to charge it in the morning. This problem has been going on a quite along while now (and always not long after parking up).
Last Tuesday I put in a new main battery and headed away on Friday. That night the usual happened after an hour and by the morning the new battery was completely flat. I had to charge it again in the morning. I greatly appreciate any advice as how to eradicate this. Much appreciated in advance.
Another issue is that there isn't a switch that changes everything over to electricity (is this normal?)
Richard

 

[Risteard]

There is nothing to stop you whilst the on board charger is U/S to plugging in the portable charger via EHU connected to the batteries - that way at least you will have 12 volt around the MH.
There is however one little thing you may not know and that is your current hab battery will be past it now no matter how new it is because you have discharged it fully a few times now it will never recover. Sorry, but new battery needed. as no matter how many times you charge it now it will never supply enough amps and will fail on you within hours of use.

Thanks for that John...I aim to purchase one this week again and see how I get on. Thanks for advice...much appreciated

 

[Risteard]

I just want to go back to what may seem a silly question.
The battery that runs your lights etc, where is it located? Do you have 2 batteries in 2 different places or just the one that runs the engine and you are running your lights from that ? If you only have the one we have your answer

Hi the leisure battery is located in the footwell in the middle lounge area and the main battery for the van is located in the front passenger seat footwell.

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[Risteard]

There is nothing to stop you whilst the on board charger is U/S to plugging in the portable charger via EHU connected to the batteries - that way at least you will have 12 volt around the MH.
There is however one little thing you may not know and that is your current hab battery will be past it now no matter how new it is because you have discharged it fully a few times now it will never recover. Sorry, but new battery needed. as no matter how many times you charge it now it will never supply enough amps and will fail on you within hours of use.

John I'm just after purchasing a new leisure battery and installing it. We are heading off on Saturday for the night so hopefully I'll be able to report back on the success or lack of success we have. Thanks again for taking time to respond. appreciated

 

[Risteard]

hi all, I was just wondering if this van is fitted with a power inverter, you know the type, 240 volts from the 12 volt internal batteries,, now they really do gobble up the amps if left running for any length of time, and could easily knock out a 120 amh battery over a few hours, and how could he recharge the batteries in just a morning?, he must be using a portable nuclear power station to recharge the battery in just one morning, the amps it would need to take, it would be steaming like a kettle and that would kill it dead in one charge, I would hold an cheap avo meter on the battery posts stet to 20 volt's "DC" and read the volts, it should read 13.5 volts, then plug the van into the mains power, if the volts go up to 14.5 volts "DC" then use an amp meter by taking off one of the battery leads the "+" lead and hooking that up to read the amp's of charge, if all this works ok then the charger is working fine, if so try to recover the battery by giving it a long SLOW charge over at least 3 days, (or longer) using the proper leisure battery charger """AND NOT A CAR CHARGER""" never use a car charger on a leisure battery the battery was not made to take a high charge like from a car charger, ""IT WILL KILL OFF YOUR BATTERY""

Michael, your detailed contribution is greatly appreciated I feel that I would be slightly out of my depth here...We're heading off on Saturday with new leisure battery ....if the same problem occurs I feel, as suggested by pappajohn and others that I should take it to Motorhome garage - and bite the bullet....many thanks for your help.

 

[Risteard]

I reckon this thread could turn into another Colyboy dabicle.....just going round in circles.

Take it to a motorhome repairers to be properly assessed.

Pappajohn, thanks to you to for your contribution....your input has been very helpful.....I'm heading off on Saturday for the night and I'll see how I get on but no doubt, due to my own limited knowledge, I may have to take it to the motorhome repair centre - after my brother has a proper look at it next week. Many thanks again

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[Risteard]

hi buddy a car charger is not really the right type of charger to charge leisure batteries, first of all the amp's could be to high, and the volt's will be far to high for leisure batteries, a car charger is not regulated for volt's like a leisure battery charger is and it could charge the battery at 16.5 volts were a leisure battery should be charged by a voltage regulated charger at 14.5 volts and no more than at a "C10" charge rate, or if your battery is say 120 amp hour the max you can charge that battery is "120 amp hour divided by 10 = 12 amp's max at 14.5 volts no more than that!" but 8 or 10 amps would be kinder so the battery would take at least 12 hours to recharge at 100% efficient,, and it wont be that good! so charge it for 16 hours or lower the amp hour charge rate but charge the battery for longer say 24 hours, the longer the better with a lower amp hour charge if the battery has been knocked right out it could take day's to recover "if it recovers at all" never knock the battery right out all ways try to leave at least 35% of the batteries amp hours still in it, so for a 120 amp hour battery leave at least 30 amp hours in the battery also most leisure batteries are sealed lead acid type and cannot be toped up with "distilled water" if they are "fast charged and over charged using to high a volt charge" they dry out very fast and are then useless, as they wont hold there charge very long at all, if you can open yours have a look at the "water level inside each cell of your battery" if you can top it up to just cover the internal plates, then fully recharge it "slowly" on a good regulated leisure battery charger, I have "popped the top off some leisure batteries" so I could refill them with water then glued the top back on and that rejuvenated the battery to full working order again, (don't use tap water use distilled water only or clean rain water!) best of luck with this battery mike

Mike this detailed message is so useful and helpful and very much appreciated It shows how little I know really! I have printed it out along with the other wonderful contributions and will refer to it when I need to recharge my leisure battery. Many thanks again

 

[Risteard]

Thanks for responding, Richard.

I think your on-board charger may have been fried in a way that is now discharging your domestic circuit. I suggest disconnecting the charger, if you can, and seeing how long a fully charged battery lasts. Sadly I agree that the treatment given to the new battery may have compromised its ability to hold much charge but if it lasts several hours when the charger has been isolated that would suggest that the charger is the cause of the drain.

I asked how you had charged the new battery because I wanted to establish that you had not used the on-board charger. Before you invest in new batteries or chargers, it’s important to discover the cause of the problem (heavy discharge). You brother should be able to determine where the current draw is going and hence where the fault is.

There’s no point addressing the effect (flat battery) without removing the cause or you’ll simply repeat the experience. My guess (note emphasis) is that your old battery failed and caused the charger to fail. You may need to find a multi-stage charger.

Let us know how you get on.

Such sound advice and the time taken is much appreciated....I have printed out this and other detailed contributions and will discuss with my brother next week when he gets a proper look at it. I will keep you posted as to how I get on. Many thanks again

 

[pappajohn]

never use a car charger on a leisure battery the battery was not made to take a high charge like from a car charger, ""IT WILL KILL OFF YOUR BATTERY""

Sorry but I disagree.
Many motorhome chargers are designed to supply up to 15a plus.
'car' chargers are rarely able to supply more than around 6 to 10amps unless you spend proper money on a professional charge.

Agreed, old anologue chargers were a bit eratic with charge rates but modern, even cheap, 4 or 6 stage digital car chargers are far superior to the majority of standard motorhome chargers which are fitted to a price, not to quality..
They ARE voltage regulators and will NOT damage a leisure battery.

And...the maximum recommended charge current is 20% of battery capacity......20a for a 100ah battery, not 10%.

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[Don Quixote]

John I'm just after purchasing a new leisure battery and installing it. We are heading off on Saturday for the night so hopefully I'll be able to report back on the success or lack of success we have. Thanks again for taking time to respond. appreciated

If you can before fitting, put on the charger for 24/48 hours to give the battery a full charge (they say they are fully charged before delivery!!!) Then after fitting (MH not connected to EHU) leave for 20/30 minutes with control panel on (no need for lights left on) and put a volt meter across +/- and take a reading. Should be somewhere between 12.8 and 13.? - leave it again for 3/4 hours and see what reading you get? Should be again somewhere between 12.7 now and 12.9 Now start you MH and 1/2 minutes later check voltage across +/- and if your on board charger is working you should see 14.4/14.6 (some read a little high!) if however you only see 12.8 less or more the on board might be U/S.
If this is the case until you can get it fixed on arrival at campsite plug into EHU - connect charger to battery direct and it will work just fine and keep your new battery happy whilst your drawing the amps from it.

 

[pappajohn]

Just to add to the above.....turn OFF your onboard charger if it is faulty

 

[Risteard]

A quick google search shows that the Calira chargers are well known for burning out a transformer when hooked up to an old battery and the mains. It seems that the old battery draws too much current and burns the transformer out....hence no charging.

The fix is to take the unit apart and look for the bubbled paint on the transformer. Take the number off it and order another. A bit of soldering later and you may be back in business.

Neil your contribution is very much appreciated....I'll show this to my brother next week.....this is beyond me to be honest!...but shouldn't be beyond him!..many thanks again

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[Risteard]

Just to add to the above.....turn OFF your onboard charger if it is faulty

will do...and thank you

 

[Risteard]

Amongst other problems, it sounds like you are not putting very much charge into the batteries from the car charger. Maybe only up to 20% full, so that it doesn't take very long to be flat again.

Don't underestimate the time it takes to charge a big battery. A starter battery or a leisure battery will most likely have a capacity of 80 to 100 amp-hours. A 5 amp charger will take 100/5 = 20 hours to fully charge a 100 amp-hour battery from flat. And if you're using it for lights, pump etc at the same time, it will take even longer. I'd allow 24 hours minimum to get a big battery back up to full charge.

I'd buy a cheap multimeter and get your electrician brother to show you how to measure voltage and continuity. It's easy once you've seen it done. When you have some numbers it is easier to diagnose the problem.

What model of car charger did you get from Halfords? If it's an intelligent charger, it goes through three stages.

1. The voltage gradually rises from about 12 volts to about 14.5 volts (if it's flat it will take hours rather than minutes).

2. Then it stays at about 14.5 volts for some time (again hours rather than minutes).

3. When it's finished charging, and the battery is full, it drops down to about 13.5 volts, which keeps the battery topped up without overcharging.

Most chargers have an LED that tells you when it's reached stage 3, so a meter is not absolutely necessary.

On the subject of buying a new battery, I'd wait until your charger is sorted and everything is working before buying a brand new battery. Otherwise you risk completely discharging and possibly damaging yet another brand new battery.

 

[Risteard]

Amongst other problems, it sounds like you are not putting very much charge into the batteries from the car charger. Maybe only up to 20% full, so that it doesn't take very long to be flat again.

Don't underestimate the time it takes to charge a big battery. A starter battery or a leisure battery will most likely have a capacity of 80 to 100 amp-hours. A 5 amp charger will take 100/5 = 20 hours to fully charge a 100 amp-hour battery from flat. And if you're using it for lights, pump etc at the same time, it will take even longer. I'd allow 24 hours minimum to get a big battery back up to full charge.

I'd buy a cheap multimeter and get your electrician brother to show you how to measure voltage and continuity. It's easy once you've seen it done. When you have some numbers it is easier to diagnose the problem.

What model of car charger did you get from Halfords? If it's an intelligent charger, it goes through three stages.

1. The voltage gradually rises from about 12 volts to about 14.5 volts (if it's flat it will take hours rather than minutes).

2. Then it stays at about 14.5 volts for some time (again hours rather than minutes).

3. When it's finished charging, and the battery is full, it drops down to about 13.5 volts, which keeps the battery topped up without overcharging.

Most chargers have an LED that tells you when it's reached stage 3, so a meter is not absolutely necessary.

On the subject of buying a new battery, I'd wait until your charger is sorted and everything is working before buying a brand new battery. Otherwise you risk completely discharging and possibly damaging yet another brand new battery.

Hi many thanks for your help.......my wife and I have just evaluated these responses and feel it's best if we don't take the motorhome away ...we'll just sit tight until this problem is rectified...I had purchased a new leisure battery but will just leave it and use the old one til we get the charger sorted first.....no point in throwing good money after bad....many thanks for your time and help with this...i'll keep u posted on how I get on.

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[autorouter]

Neil your contribution is very much appreciated....I'll show this to my brother next week.....this is beyond me to be honest!...but shouldn't be beyond him!

If you (or your brother) decide you don't want to fix the Calira charger yourself, you could try A&N Caravan Services or Appuljack Engineering.

I know some of the web pages on the A&N Caravans web site are not well regarded by some funsters, including myself to some extent, but on the couple of occasions I've sent items for repair they were very competent and efficient. Once they definitely went well beyond my expectations to get me back on the road quickly.

They sometimes have units already 'remanufactured' in exchange for your old one.

 

[bfb]

I have left my 1500 watt inverter on for 2 days just to see if and what the current drain is. Recharged the battery and showing full in less than 4 hours. Charger is CTEK. Didn't run anything of it just wanted to see if it would discharge the battery. Travel to Bristol to work spending 4 nights in a farmers field, no hookup so running of battery power only everything worked ok recharging them on returning home. Sound like you have a problem with the charging circuit or other connection to flatten a battery that quickly. Are yo running the fridge off 12volts? That will flatten the battery quickly in my experience.

 

[Mike800966]

The Calira unit has several functions, it distributes the 240v to the sockets, distributes the 12v to the appliances and it controls the leisure battery charging. It is not possible to turn off the charger which may well not be providing a charge. I believe that they do not like knackered batteries and that is possibly the reason for the failure.
No one has asked what sort of load you are applying to the leisure battery? Is the interior lighting all the dreaded halogen perhaps, they really do cane a battery. You probably have about 30 to 40 ampere hours of battery power when its fully charged and in good order so 6 10w halogen bulbs ie a 6amp load should last about 4- 5 hours.
My previous postings refers to very successful calira repairs in Germany but I gather appuljack do now do them in the SWest
Mike