Lights always go out and new battery flat. Please advise:):) (1 Viewer)

[Risteard]

Hi Folks,
I would really appreciate your help with this. I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato Lunar Champ A670. The problem occurs when I park up at night in a campsite and plug in the mains supply. Everything works perfectly for about an hour or so. Then all the lights go out and remain out for the rest of the night. The only things that works are the 3 sockets. The main battery becomes flat and I have to charge it in the morning. This problem has been going on a quite along while now (and always not long after parking up).
Last Tuesday I put in a new main battery and headed away on Friday. That night the usual happened after an hour and by the morning the new battery was completely flat. I had to charge it again in the morning. I greatly appreciate any advice as how to eradicate this. Much appreciated in advance.
Another issue is that there isn't a switch that changes everything over to electricity (is this normal?)
Richard

 

[DavidG58]

It can only be that your charger isn't working, hopefully just turned off

If not turned off it is possibly faulty

 

[DBK]

What do you mean by "main battery"? The one usually under the passenger side floor in the cab which starts the engine or what is generally known as the leisure battery which powers the living quarters side of the MH?
At a guess, the leisure battery needs replacing and the mains charger isn't working but more tests need to be done before you throw a couple of hundred pounds at the problem.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[two]

Was the 'new' battery brand new or just 'another'?
And how did you recharge it?
Something seems to be taking them down.

 

[pappajohn]

When connecting to mains hookup it activate the onboard charger, which in turn powers all the 12v system.
To flatten a battery to the point the lights fail completely means the charger isn't working.
It may be broken or simply turned off, it will probably have an on/off switch somewhere on the charger casing or the 230v breaker in the fuse box protecting the charger has tripped.....only investigation will find it.

Even without a battery connected, the mains hookup will still power the charger and that alone will run the 12v electrics to an extent.

 

[Lenny HB]

If the new battery you fitted was fully charged for it to flat in an hour doesn't sound right, for that to happen you would have to have a current draw of 50 to 100 amps.
If the battery was only partly charged it sounds like it is not being charged by either the alternator or the mains charger.
Has your control panel got a switch that selects starter or leisure battery if so does this affect the charging. Also check for fuses in line with the charging circuit.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

How do you charge the battery in the morning ?
Do you have a separate "plug in" mains charger ?

 

[pappajohn]

Has your control panel got a switch that selects starter or leisure battery if so does this affect the charging

If the charger was switched to engine battery it will also use that battery to power the hab electrics.

 

[funflair]

So what happens if you don’t plug in the mains lead.

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

If the charger was switched to engine battery it will also use that battery to power the hab electrics.

True, just wondering if a previous owner has been playing with the wiring. A battery going flat in an hour would have some serious current drain which I think you would be aware of, something would smell hot.
I put my money on a fuse inline with charging circuit assuming the new battery fitted wasn't charged.

 

[michael thorpe]

hi all, I was just wondering if this van is fitted with a power inverter, you know the type, 240 volts from the 12 volt internal batteries,, now they really do gobble up the amps if left running for any length of time, and could easily knock out a 120 amh battery over a few hours, and how could he recharge the batteries in just a morning?, he must be using a portable nuclear power station to recharge the battery in just one morning, the amps it would need to take, it would be steaming like a kettle and that would kill it dead in one charge, I would hold an cheap avo meter on the battery posts stet to 20 volt's "DC" and read the volts, it should read 13.5 volts, then plug the van into the mains power, if the volts go up to 14.5 volts "DC" then use an amp meter by taking off one of the battery leads the "+" lead and hooking that up to read the amp's of charge, if all this works ok then the charger is working fine, if so try to recover the battery by giving it a long SLOW charge over at least 3 days, (or longer) using the proper leisure battery charger """AND NOT A CAR CHARGER""" never use a car charger on a leisure battery the battery was not made to take a high charge like from a car charger, ""IT WILL KILL OFF YOUR BATTERY""

 

[Lenny HB]

If the charger was switched to engine battery it will also use that battery to power the hab electrics.

Thinking about it again, I think there have been chargers around that just switch the charging to allow you to charge the starter battery.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[movan]

May be a stupid answer and if so .. sorry.

I had a spell where my engine battery kept going flat when I wasn't in van ... then , I think it was hilldweller, told me to check my radio.
It was remaining on permanent standby and draining the battery. It sorted it.

Unfortunately, I think the local garage have been fiddling with it when van in there as it seems to be back on standby and struggling to switch it off.

 

[Risteard]

What do you mean by "main battery"? The one usually under the passenger side floor in the cab which starts the engine or what is generally known as the leisure battery which powers the living quarters side of the MH?
At a guess, the leisure battery needs replacing and the mains charger isn't working but more tests need to be done before you throw a couple of hundred pounds at the problem.

Yes, the one under the passenger side floor. I will replace the leisure battery just to see as well. Again thanks for the time to reply

 

[Risteard]

It can only be that your charger isn't working, hopefully just turned off

If not turned off it is possibly faulty

David, I checked my charger and it is on......so will need to get it checked to see if it is faulty. Your contribution is greatly appreciated..thanks

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Risteard]

Was the 'new' battery brand new or just 'another'?
And how did you recharge it?
Something seems to be taking them down.

Hi, it was brand new and I charged it using a battery charger running from one of the sockets

 

[pappajohn]

David, I checked my charger and it is on......so will need to get it checked to see if it is faulty. Your contribution is greatly appreciated..thanks

My money is on the charger.......
As I said earlier, the charger will supply some power to the 12v system even without a battery. n circuit.

 

[Risteard]

When connecting to mains hookup it activate the onboard charger, which in turn powers all the 12v system.
To flatten a battery to the point the lights fail completely means the charger isn't working.
It may be broken or simply turned off, it will probably have an on/off switch somewhere on the charger casing or the 230v breaker in the fuse box protecting the charger has tripped.....only investigation will find it.

Even without a battery connected, the mains hookup will still power the charger and that alone will run the 12v electrics to an extent.

I just checked there but no obvious on/off switch

When connecting to mains hookup it activate the onboard charger, which in turn powers all the 12v system.
To flatten a battery to the point the lights fail completely means the charger isn't working.
It may be broken or simply turned off, it will probably have an on/off switch somewhere on the charger casing or the 230v breaker in the fuse box protecting the charger has tripped.....only investigation will find it.

Even without a battery connected, the mains hookup will still power the charger and that alone will run the 12v electrics to an extent.

It doesn't appear that it has tripped...I have attached a photo as well......I really appreciate the time that you have spent trying to help me...many thanks

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Risteard]

May be a stupid answer and if so .. sorry.

I had a spell where my engine battery kept going flat when I wasn't in van ... then , I think it was hilldweller, told me to check my radio.
It was remaining on permanent standby and draining the battery. It sorted it.

Unfortunately, I think the local garage have been fiddling with it when van in there as it seems to be back on standby and struggling to switch it off.

Hi I was concerned about the radio but I got it checked and it didn't seem to be the problem...but thanks for your kind contribution

 

[Risteard]

hi all, I was just wondering if this van is fitted with a power inverter, you know the type, 240 volts from the 12 volt internal batteries,, now they really do gobble up the amps if left running for any length of time, and could easily knock out a 120 amh battery over a few hours, and how could he recharge the batteries in just a morning?, he must be using a portable nuclear power station to recharge the battery in just one morning, the amps it would need to take, it would be steaming like a kettle and that would kill it dead in one charge, I would hold an cheap avo meter on the battery posts stet to 20 volt's "DC" and read the volts, it should read 13.5 volts, then plug the van into the mains power, if the volts go up to 14.5 volts "DC" then use an amp meter by taking off one of the battery leads the "+" lead and hooking that up to read the amp's of charge, if all this works ok then the charger is working fine, if so try to recover the battery by giving it a long SLOW charge over at least 3 days, (or longer) using the proper leisure battery charger """AND NOT A CAR CHARGER""" never use a car charger on a leisure battery the battery was not made to take a high charge like from a car charger, ""IT WILL KILL OFF YOUR BATTERY""

I will certainly get that checked.....my brother's an electrician...I'll print out your advice and get him to check it...I bought a car charger from HAlfords which states that it can also charge leisure batteries...would this be ok to use still??......also many many thanks for your advice on this matter...I so appreciate the time you have taken to respond

 

[Neil Bedwin]

A quick google search shows that the Calira chargers are well known for burning out a transformer when hooked up to an old battery and the mains. It seems that the old battery draws too much current and burns the transformer out....hence no charging.

The fix is to take the unit apart and look for the bubbled paint on the transformer. Take the number off it and order another. A bit of soldering later and you may be back in business.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Don Quixote]

There is nothing to stop you whilst the on board charger is U/S to plugging in the portable charger via EHU connected to the batteries - that way at least you will have 12 volt around the MH.
There is however one little thing you may not know and that is your current hab battery will be past it now no matter how new it is because you have discharged it fully a few times now it will never recover. Sorry, but new battery needed. as no matter how many times you charge it now it will never supply enough amps and will fail on you within hours of use.

 

[suavecarve]

I just want to go back to what may seem a silly question.
The battery that runs your lights etc, where is it located? Do you have 2 batteries in 2 different places or just the one that runs the engine and you are running your lights from that ? If you only have the one we have your answer

 

[autorouter]

Amongst other problems, it sounds like you are not putting very much charge into the batteries from the car charger. Maybe only up to 20% full, so that it doesn't take very long to be flat again.

Don't underestimate the time it takes to charge a big battery. A starter battery or a leisure battery will most likely have a capacity of 80 to 100 amp-hours. A 5 amp charger will take 100/5 = 20 hours to fully charge a 100 amp-hour battery from flat. And if you're using it for lights, pump etc at the same time, it will take even longer. I'd allow 24 hours minimum to get a big battery back up to full charge.

I'd buy a cheap multimeter and get your electrician brother to show you how to measure voltage and continuity. It's easy once you've seen it done. When you have some numbers it is easier to diagnose the problem.

What model of car charger did you get from Halfords? If it's an intelligent charger, it goes through three stages.

1. The voltage gradually rises from about 12 volts to about 14.5 volts (if it's flat it will take hours rather than minutes).

2. Then it stays at about 14.5 volts for some time (again hours rather than minutes).

3. When it's finished charging, and the battery is full, it drops down to about 13.5 volts, which keeps the battery topped up without overcharging.

Most chargers have an LED that tells you when it's reached stage 3, so a meter is not absolutely necessary.

On the subject of buying a new battery, I'd wait until your charger is sorted and everything is working before buying a brand new battery. Otherwise you risk completely discharging and possibly damaging yet another brand new battery.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Don Quixote]

There is nothing to stop you whilst the on board charger is U/S to plugging in the portable charger via EHU connected to the batteries - that way at least you will have 12 volt around the MH.
There is however one little thing you may not know and that is your current hab battery will be past it now no matter how new it is because you have discharged it fully a few times now it will never recover. Sorry, but new battery needed. as no matter how many times you charge it now it will never supply enough amps and will fail on you within hours of use.

@Treeeev - Whats so funny?https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/members/treeeev.40105/

 

[pappajohn]

I reckon this thread could turn into another Colyboy dabicle.....just going round in circles.

Take it to a motorhome repairers to be properly assessed.

 

[Khizzie]

I reckon this thread could turn into another Colyboy dabicle.....just going round in circles.

Take it to a motorhome repairers to be properly assessed.

Most sensible suggestion so far.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[two]

Hi, it was brand new and I charged it using a battery charger running from one of the sockets

Thanks for responding, Richard.

I think your on-board charger may have been fried in a way that is now discharging your domestic circuit. I suggest disconnecting the charger, if you can, and seeing how long a fully charged battery lasts. Sadly I agree that the treatment given to the new battery may have compromised its ability to hold much charge but if it lasts several hours when the charger has been isolated that would suggest that the charger is the cause of the drain.

I asked how you had charged the new battery because I wanted to establish that you had not used the on-board charger. Before you invest in new batteries or chargers, it’s important to discover the cause of the problem (heavy discharge). You brother should be able to determine where the current draw is going and hence where the fault is.

There’s no point addressing the effect (flat battery) without removing the cause or you’ll simply repeat the experience. My guess (note emphasis) is that your old battery failed and caused the charger to fail. You may need to find a multi-stage charger.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[michael thorpe]

hi buddy a car charger is not really the right type of charger to charge leisure batteries, first of all the amp's could be to high, and the volt's will be far to high for leisure batteries, a car charger is not regulated for volt's like a leisure battery charger is and it could charge the battery at 16.5 volts were a leisure battery should be charged by a voltage regulated charger at 14.5 volts and no more than at a "C10" charge rate, or if your battery is say 120 amp hour the max you can charge that battery is "120 amp hour divided by 10 = 12 amp's max at 14.5 volts no more than that!" but 8 or 10 amps would be kinder so the battery would take at least 12 hours to recharge at 100% efficient,, and it wont be that good! so charge it for 16 hours or lower the amp hour charge rate but charge the battery for longer say 24 hours, the longer the better with a lower amp hour charge if the battery has been knocked right out it could take day's to recover "if it recovers at all" never knock the battery right out all ways try to leave at least 35% of the batteries amp hours still in it, so for a 120 amp hour battery leave at least 30 amp hours in the battery also most leisure batteries are sealed lead acid type and cannot be toped up with "distilled water" if they are "fast charged and over charged using to high a volt charge" they dry out very fast and are then useless, as they wont hold there charge very long at all, if you can open yours have a look at the "water level inside each cell of your battery" if you can top it up to just cover the internal plates, then fully recharge it "slowly" on a good regulated leisure battery charger, I have "popped the top off some leisure batteries" so I could refill them with water then glued the top back on and that rejuvenated the battery to full working order again, (don't use tap water use distilled water only or clean rain water!) best of luck with this battery mike

 

[Treeeev]

@Treeeev - Whats so funny?

Don

My apologies. I had to travel to Malaysia at short notice for a funeral and have been suffering with jet lag. I can only think I accidentally hit the funny rating as I nodded off. Now removed

Cheers

Trevor