No just LED lights and fans in the ceiling.
Leisure Battery expectations?? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Romolo
- Start date
aha ok. So your Fridge runs on gas I guess.
Fridge is probably my juiciest thing here. But the manual says 1.5-1.9 amps. So on a 100AH battery and nothing else turns on or drawing (apart from cables themselves) I should get 50 hours in optimal conditions.
Would that be the assumption?
OK if I throw in an imperfect setup etc... Should do close to nearly 2 days if no solar was involved and no additional things like LED lights turned on?
So if I have half that for 50% battery I should get 24 hours out of it.
If I consider Solar power at anywhere from 1-5Amps for hours I could get 2 days out of this setup even with some small LED in the evening before having to charge again bc I might be at 50%
Does this quick maths work in the real world do you think?
Thank you
R
Fridge is probably my juiciest thing here. But the manual says 1.5-1.9 amps. So on a 100AH battery and nothing else turns on or drawing (apart from cables themselves) I should get 50 hours in optimal conditions.
Would that be the assumption?
OK if I throw in an imperfect setup etc... Should do close to nearly 2 days if no solar was involved and no additional things like LED lights turned on?
So if I have half that for 50% battery I should get 24 hours out of it.
If I consider Solar power at anywhere from 1-5Amps for hours I could get 2 days out of this setup even with some small LED in the evening before having to charge again bc I might be at 50%
Does this quick maths work in the real world do you think?
Thank you
R
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A reliable reading of your battery voltage should only be taken after about 30 minutes of no load / no charge.
Under load the apparent voltage will drop. Batteries have a rate at which they can release power, and a rate they can absorb it. My pathetic 75Ah lead-acid battery, just from having the 12V Avtex TV on could see a drop of 0.3-0.4V. Turn the TV off and a few minutes later the battery would show a recovery.
It never got above around 12.5V, despite new, so the Sargent LED display never showed a 100% charge. That is despite EHU apparently charging at 13.8V and solar doing whatever it wanted. As with load, if charging the voltage appears to be higher than is actually in the battery, due to the input.
It will take some time for a battery, at 50% to get a full re-charge under solar if you only have a single panel. Have you actually allowed the battery time to charge, and allowing the 30 minutes settling period then checked to see what you have? Fundamentally are you sure you have a 100% charged battery?
Under load the apparent voltage will drop. Batteries have a rate at which they can release power, and a rate they can absorb it. My pathetic 75Ah lead-acid battery, just from having the 12V Avtex TV on could see a drop of 0.3-0.4V. Turn the TV off and a few minutes later the battery would show a recovery.
It never got above around 12.5V, despite new, so the Sargent LED display never showed a 100% charge. That is despite EHU apparently charging at 13.8V and solar doing whatever it wanted. As with load, if charging the voltage appears to be higher than is actually in the battery, due to the input.
It will take some time for a battery, at 50% to get a full re-charge under solar if you only have a single panel. Have you actually allowed the battery time to charge, and allowing the 30 minutes settling period then checked to see what you have? Fundamentally are you sure you have a 100% charged battery?
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Hi Yes. This is an ongoing test of 2 weeks.
Yes all of these are tests are happening from leaving the van for hours at a time. And the initial is all done within 30secs as per above details.
I am certainly not testing and then retesting 5 minutes or even an hour later..
This is regarding all of the tests by switching to Van mode.
Very little test after 30 min continuous load.
That is what I fancy doing next.. Just take it out for the day and let solar do its thing and will just be on Van mode.
Many thanks
R
Yes all of these are tests are happening from leaving the van for hours at a time. And the initial is all done within 30secs as per above details.
I am certainly not testing and then retesting 5 minutes or even an hour later..
This is regarding all of the tests by switching to Van mode.
Very little test after 30 min continuous load.
That is what I fancy doing next.. Just take it out for the day and let solar do its thing and will just be on Van mode.
Many thanks
R
If it's sunny you can stay off grid without needing to charge. The solar will charge the battery and run the fridge at the same time, also remember the fridge compressor won't run all the time anyway so all the solar current will then go into the battery.
yeah true... just trying to work out expectancy without any exp.
Thanks everyone
R
Thanks everyone
R
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Nasher
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Hope you get this sorted, I posted a link to the PMS 3 manual in post 16
Here is the relevant part regarding the LED display
Battery Condition Meter
This electronic meter provides a 5-bar LED readout of the
condition of your main or auxiliary battery.
Readings should be taken as follows:
High region Fully charged (no charge necessary)
Norm region Adequate charge (re-charge if desired)
Low region Low charge (turn on charger to re-charge)
From that you can see that is indicative rather than a percentage of your available battery power
Here is the relevant part regarding the LED display
Battery Condition Meter
This electronic meter provides a 5-bar LED readout of the
condition of your main or auxiliary battery.
Readings should be taken as follows:
High region Fully charged (no charge necessary)
Norm region Adequate charge (re-charge if desired)
Low region Low charge (turn on charger to re-charge)
From that you can see that is indicative rather than a percentage of your available battery power
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From what I understand from your posts the system is working correctly. A fully charged battery will show 0A from the solar as obviously it can't charge any more. Your reading of 80% immediately the compressor fridge goes on is reasonable as the reading is usually just based on voltage and you are probably drawing 5-10A for the compressor. Unless your battery is actually going flat in normal use I would suggest there is no problem.
Which wires are you using for the new LED Strip? The wires that go to the ends of the tube are very high voltage, from a small voltage-boosting circuit built into the fitting. The supply coming into the fitting is the standard 12V, so you need to wire the LED strip to that (assuming it's 12V LED Strip of course).
By the way, that high voltage might be AC, not DC. If your meter is set to DC it won't read AC volts. If it's high frequency AC, the meter might not read it on the AC setting either.
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Battery charge and discharge is a chemical reaction process. One chemical builds up during charging, and is replaced by another chemical during discharging. The state of charge is the percentage of one chemical compared to the other.
The voltage of a battery, if left unconnected to anything for a few hours, is a good indication of the state of charge. The table in Richard and Ann's post #7 shows exact values.
If the battery is being charged, or is running any loads, the voltage will change, and will not be an accurate indicator of SOC. For example, if the voltage is 14.1V during charging, that is not even on the SOC scale of the table. At 14.1V, the battery could be at 20% charged or 80% charged, it is impossible to tell.
Connecting a load suddenly will cause the voltage to drop instantly. The state of charge does not change instantly, the voltage is a bad indication of state of charge in that situation.
There are battery monitors that continuously measure the current going into and out of the battery at any instant, and keep track of how much charge is going into and out of the battery. Since it is electric charge that causes the chemical reaction in the battery, this is a much more accurate way to track the state of charge of a battery. Usually these monitors have a built-in computer chip with memory, and a 'shunt' placed in the wiring, usually next to the battery negative terminal. They track all the amps into and out of the battery. The percentage state of charge display is reasonably accurate, and doesn't jump up and down like a voltage meter based monitor does.
The voltage of a battery, if left unconnected to anything for a few hours, is a good indication of the state of charge. The table in Richard and Ann's post #7 shows exact values.
If the battery is being charged, or is running any loads, the voltage will change, and will not be an accurate indicator of SOC. For example, if the voltage is 14.1V during charging, that is not even on the SOC scale of the table. At 14.1V, the battery could be at 20% charged or 80% charged, it is impossible to tell.
Connecting a load suddenly will cause the voltage to drop instantly. The state of charge does not change instantly, the voltage is a bad indication of state of charge in that situation.
There are battery monitors that continuously measure the current going into and out of the battery at any instant, and keep track of how much charge is going into and out of the battery. Since it is electric charge that causes the chemical reaction in the battery, this is a much more accurate way to track the state of charge of a battery. Usually these monitors have a built-in computer chip with memory, and a 'shunt' placed in the wiring, usually next to the battery negative terminal. They track all the amps into and out of the battery. The percentage state of charge display is reasonably accurate, and doesn't jump up and down like a voltage meter based monitor does.
Just to chip in I presume you are disconnecting the solar before reconnecting the battery to the solar controller?
If not you can confuse or even damage the controller.
Doing a disconnect and reconnect in the right order can reset a malfunctioning controller.
sometimes they see the battery as 24v not 12v because of the higher panel voltage.
If not you can confuse or even damage the controller.
Doing a disconnect and reconnect in the right order can reset a malfunctioning controller.
sometimes they see the battery as 24v not 12v because of the higher panel voltage.
Wow.. thank you for all of these posts.
I will address them a here as I think this is an excellent thread to explain to newbies like me.
1. All batteries and solar panel has been disconnected when doing any work at all. Only exception was trying to get the fluorescent tubes changed when we we didn't get anything.
2. Yes I should have thought of the circuit in the fluorescent tube as we were connected to those terminals and not the original 12v DC supply. This makes perfect sense now and I should have thought of this. I will go back to the source wires to wire up LEDs. I tried without ehu when doing fluorescent tests too.. but will disregard results as I was off the fitting not the original wires.
3. What is the order of disconnect and reconnect of solar pan please?
4. So my volt reading is inaccurate on Dec sockets with LCD display when trying to work out charge left? I have printed table to store in van to calculate charge.
5. Please can you supply a good battery monitor unit to buy and any particular wiring setup I need to do or just off a feed from the leisure such as my fuse box?
6. I will no longer use the LEDs on PMS as Indicator of charge.
7. If travelling then it sounds like I should be leaving my PMS 3v in van mode to get the fridge working when on the move and leaving home and th solar will charge leisure still so sounds like a win win?
Many thanks for everyone's participation in this post. I love learning and enthusiastic so this has been great for me. I understand many of the battery concepts regarding volts and at load etc... But never really had to focus on them as I've not had to rely on battery power until now with the campervan so excellent to hear these and see real world implications now.
If I could get some answers to the questions above I think I may actually get to what I want. I have some extending solar questions etc... But I will do that in a new post when ready as I'm going to take the van out for a day on just van mode and see how it goes
.
Huge thanks in advance.
R
I will address them a here as I think this is an excellent thread to explain to newbies like me.
1. All batteries and solar panel has been disconnected when doing any work at all. Only exception was trying to get the fluorescent tubes changed when we we didn't get anything.
2. Yes I should have thought of the circuit in the fluorescent tube as we were connected to those terminals and not the original 12v DC supply. This makes perfect sense now and I should have thought of this. I will go back to the source wires to wire up LEDs. I tried without ehu when doing fluorescent tests too.. but will disregard results as I was off the fitting not the original wires.
3. What is the order of disconnect and reconnect of solar pan please?
4. So my volt reading is inaccurate on Dec sockets with LCD display when trying to work out charge left? I have printed table to store in van to calculate charge.
5. Please can you supply a good battery monitor unit to buy and any particular wiring setup I need to do or just off a feed from the leisure such as my fuse box?
6. I will no longer use the LEDs on PMS as Indicator of charge.
7. If travelling then it sounds like I should be leaving my PMS 3v in van mode to get the fridge working when on the move and leaving home and th solar will charge leisure still so sounds like a win win?
Many thanks for everyone's participation in this post. I love learning and enthusiastic so this has been great for me. I understand many of the battery concepts regarding volts and at load etc... But never really had to focus on them as I've not had to rely on battery power until now with the campervan so excellent to hear these and see real world implications now.
If I could get some answers to the questions above I think I may actually get to what I want. I have some extending solar questions etc... But I will do that in a new post when ready as I'm going to take the van out for a day on just van mode and see how it goes
.Huge thanks in advance.
R
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Nasa BM1 battery monitor is excellent. My fave gadget 
100 quid but worth it
100 quid but worth it The order of the connection sequence is important for some solar controllers. They are built for both 12V and 24V systems. Instead of a switch to decide which battery voltage to use, they often have an automatic recognition when connecting. In that case, you should connect the battery first, before the solar panel, so that the system can see it is 12V not 24V.
Some controllers remember the battery choice, so the next time you disconnect, the order may not be important. But best to be safe, and connect the battery first. That means, if you have disconnected the battery, you need to disconnect the panels too, before reconnecting the battery.
There is often a fuse, circuit-breaker or switch in the panel connection wiring for just this eventuality.
Ok so that is how I reconnected . I did battery first and then panels so I am good there.
I am assuming wiring up the battery monitor is just off my fuse box.. nothing special etc..
So ignore voltage display on DC sockets?
And travel in Van mode otherwise no fridge?
Or should I wire up Car and place in car mode? Or can mode is fine... Or must it be in off position?
Thank you
R
I am assuming wiring up the battery monitor is just off my fuse box.. nothing special etc..
So ignore voltage display on DC sockets?
And travel in Van mode otherwise no fridge?
Or should I wire up Car and place in car mode? Or can mode is fine... Or must it be in off position?
Thank you
R
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You say the fridge is rated at 1.5 to 1.9 amps, is this at 240v? If so when running on 12 volts it will use a lot more, amps
Nasher
Free Member
QUOTE="Romolo, post: 4072479, member: 74593"]
7. If travelling then it sounds like I should be leaving my PMS 3v in van mode to get the fridge working when on the move and leaving home and th solar will charge leisure still so sounds like a win win?
[/QUOTE]
Link here for advice on wiring compressor fridge with PMS 3
On my van, I have both the Fridge and Wallas XC Duo (diesel hob/heater) wired directly to the leisure battery (with a fuse close to the battery, obviously) This saves any voltage drop through the PMS 3 and is mentioned in the linked article
The hob/heater was done that way in my van after taking advice from Wallas
I then set the switch on the PMS 3 to 'off' when travelling
7. If travelling then it sounds like I should be leaving my PMS 3v in van mode to get the fridge working when on the move and leaving home and th solar will charge leisure still so sounds like a win win?
[/QUOTE]
Link here for advice on wiring compressor fridge with PMS 3
On my van, I have both the Fridge and Wallas XC Duo (diesel hob/heater) wired directly to the leisure battery (with a fuse close to the battery, obviously) This saves any voltage drop through the PMS 3 and is mentioned in the linked article
The hob/heater was done that way in my van after taking advice from Wallas
I then set the switch on the PMS 3 to 'off' when travelling
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Ill check the manual again on the fridge bc that makes perfect sense it would use much more.
For your setup Nasher this would mean the fridge was permanently on unless you have an override on/off switch somewhere between leisure and fridge etc...?
I ran my fusebox off the feed into the PMS v3.. so this does sound sub optimal and maybe I should be making a run right back to the leisure battery. Or maybe just leave it now and put my battery monitor striahgt off battery close. My fusebox is mounted and will save making runs with new cables now. Thye are only powering dc sockets and usbs afterall.
R
For your setup Nasher this would mean the fridge was permanently on unless you have an override on/off switch somewhere between leisure and fridge etc...?
I ran my fusebox off the feed into the PMS v3.. so this does sound sub optimal and maybe I should be making a run right back to the leisure battery. Or maybe just leave it now and put my battery monitor striahgt off battery close. My fusebox is mounted and will save making runs with new cables now. Thye are only powering dc sockets and usbs afterall.
R
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Nasher
Free Member
I have the Waeco CRX-50 compressor fridge which has an on/off switch on it's control panel
So VAN mode when I am mobile and travelling (going against the manual)... Otherwise my fridge is not on.. It does NOT come on with ignition. ?
Thank you R
Thank you R
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If it's a proper battery monitor like the NASA or maybe a Victron BMV series, there's a bit more to it. It comes with a 'shunt', that carries ALL the current to the battery negative terminal, through some heavy-duty connections. There's a couple of thin wires and maybe a data connection going to the display unit.
The idea is that you disconnect everything from the battery negative, and reconnect them to one of the shunt terminals. Then connect the other shunt terminal to the battery negative. That might be easy, or a real pain, depending on what type of connections you have already, and whether you need to crimp new terminals onto the wires.
One option worth considering is a Victron SmartShunt, which is just a shunt with no display. It has a Bluetooth transmitter, and connects to a display app on a smartphone. Saves running wires and cutting a hole for the display, if you're happy with a smartphone app. For future reference it can connect to Victron SmartSolar controllers by Bluetooth too, to give more accurate charging
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oh cool. Thank you very much.
Can I check though anyone... In my setup when I only get fridge on EHU or Van mode..... does this mean I should travel with my PMS 3V on Van mode???? otherwise I will not get any fridge?
Many thanks
R
Can I check though anyone... In my setup when I only get fridge on EHU or Van mode..... does this mean I should travel with my PMS 3V on Van mode???? otherwise I will not get any fridge?
Many thanks
R
I like the idea of the bluetooth unit to. As I have 4 wires coming off my leisure now.. between relays etc... I was actually very surprised to find I was not getting any car juice to PMS 3V with the amount of wires and runs everywhere.
R
R
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Little update.
Replaced the fluorescent bulbs on the inside of the van with LED strips and reused the fittings (once pcb etc.. removed.. ) Even used the switch.. Great little project for my youngest and I.
Ran the battery with fridge from warm (no prechilling) and lights for 2 hours...
I did see the battery fluctuate from 13v to 12.4 and then settle at 12.7 and 12.6 at the end of 2 hours.
100ah deep cycle leisure battery.
I used the Volt display on the dc sockets I installed as battery is under drivers seat.
Seemed to go strong.
My PMS 3V reported 40-60% pretty quickly. I just used the Volt display on the DC sockets to gauge battery condition.
Seemed great. Looking forward to taking it out for the day and doing some other adjustments.
Thanks
R
Replaced the fluorescent bulbs on the inside of the van with LED strips and reused the fittings (once pcb etc.. removed.. ) Even used the switch.. Great little project for my youngest and I.
Ran the battery with fridge from warm (no prechilling) and lights for 2 hours...
I did see the battery fluctuate from 13v to 12.4 and then settle at 12.7 and 12.6 at the end of 2 hours.
100ah deep cycle leisure battery.
I used the Volt display on the dc sockets I installed as battery is under drivers seat.
Seemed to go strong.
My PMS 3V reported 40-60% pretty quickly. I just used the Volt display on the DC sockets to gauge battery condition.
Seemed great. Looking forward to taking it out for the day and doing some other adjustments.
Thanks
R
Nasher
Free Member
I take it from that you mean 'normal' according to the manual?
The 5 LEDs are not a percentage of charge
Yes I have totally come to that conclusion.... I am assuming load or something.
It definitely does not relate to the battery.... 100% can assure you of that
R
It definitely does not relate to the battery.... 100% can assure you of that
R
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I figured so.. just wanted to ensure there are no gotchas with a PMS 3v running whilst on the move and the leisure is getting charged from the Alternator.
Really I cannot see another way or point wiring up the CAR mode and get juice from the Starter battery as the ignition is on... the alternator is charging the Leisure. So unless anyone has any comments or suggestions I think I am in the best situation right now? Also I have the solar too.
Many thanks
R
Really I cannot see another way or point wiring up the CAR mode and get juice from the Starter battery as the ignition is on... the alternator is charging the Leisure. So unless anyone has any comments or suggestions I think I am in the best situation right now? Also I have the solar too.
Many thanks
R
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