Freight Queues for 5 miles For the Tunnel on Tuesday.

[martin2603]

Thé French Customs trialed some of their systems at the Tunnel on Tuesday morning . Queues stretched back for five miles towards Ashford. Their systems have been ready for over a year. The RHA had a meeting not with Gove but one of his lesser mortals yesterday, The result was described as a total shambles. They tell us that they are recruiting thousands of new staff, I learned that they are still making people redundant. The ´ System’ is due to be operational from 23rd December, just eight days before D day!
Frankly it beggars belief.

 

[old-mo]

Gonna get a whole lot worse before it get any better... (Both ways.)..

 

[nicholsong]

Thé French Customs trialed some of their systems at the Tunnel on Tuesday morning . Queues stretched back for five miles towards Ashford. Their systems have been ready for over a year. The RHA had a meeting not with Gove but one of his lesser mortals yesterday, The result was described as a total shambles. They tell us that they are recruiting thousands of new staff, I learned that they are still making people redundant. The ´ System’ is due to be operational from 23rd December, just eight days before D day!
Frankly it beggars belief.

What is wrong with that - I thought 'just-on-time' was the new way to be economically efficient these days?

 

[sallylillian]

Don't worry we will have a trade deal with Zero tariffs and none of this will be relevant, then everyone (press especially) can complain about the waste of money spent on all these preparations for sabre rattling!

 

[Googlebot]

I hate crossing the border back to the UK as it is with just the passport checks. This is going to be awful!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[canopus]

ça ne fait rien ( San Fairy Ann) as the Tommy’s used to say

 

[RidersofRohan]

Why do we need a new system? We trade with the EU now and the Rest of the World both import and export don’t you just switch one off and the other one on when we leave properly on the 31st December. Surely that should be done on the 31st not the 23rd. We’ll have more chance of knowing if there is a deal or not by then, and how did the French know a year ago. All sounds like fake double speak to me.

 

[Googlebot]

If we end up with WTO no deal terms then tariffs apply and goods have to be checked both ways for tariffs to be levied.

We don’t have such a system in place and haven’t got one ready in time.

 

[Coolcats]

If we end up with WTO no deal terms then tariffs apply and goods have to be checked both ways for tariffs to be levied.

We don’t have such a system in place and haven’t got one ready in time.

Well it should help provide jobs as the WTO rule book runs in to some 30,000 pages with some 30 agreements

 

[olley]

If we end up with WTO no deal terms then tariffs apply and goods have to be checked both ways for tariffs to be levied.

We don’t have such a system in place and haven’t got one ready in time.

But we already do that for stuff that comes from outside the EU, so we must have systems in place already.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[2657]

But we already do that for stuff that comes from outside the EU, so we must have systems in place already.

Stuff that comes in from outside the EU will enter via ports or airports, rarely by truck.

The largest volume is undoubtedly containerised and can be unloaded from the ship and left on the quayside while awaiting clearance.

The volume coming in from the EU would cause chaos if this system was implemented, there is simply not enough trained staff or customs agents at the moment.

 

[Gaston aires]

We were all screwed when we had the “millennium bug” Not !
We are being screwed now as well. I will not be rushing off to Europe I will wait for things to die down a bit.
The only thing our government is good at is wasting hard earned taxpayers money !
Phil

 

[Coolcats]

We were all screwed when we had the “millennium bug” Not !
We are being screwed now as well. I will not be rushing off to Europe I will wait for things to die down a bit.
The only thing our government is good at is wasting hard earned taxpayers money !
Phil

Back in 1999 there was a huge effort by iIT companies to upgrade firmware and software plus system checks which is why there was no issues with the millennium bug. I am sure others on here may recall or been involved in such efforts.

 

[soul buddies]

There was oooodles of money made as usual with the millennium bug scare

 

[MichaelT]

Its not going to make any difference to us anyway as we will all be locked down again in January after everyone has mixed inside each others houses over Christmas and spread the virus again

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Coolcats]

There was oooodles of money made as usual with the millennium bug scare

There was indeed, some justified some not but whatever, it meant there were no issues and for those who worked overtime it helped pay for holidays etc happy days

 

[Spriddler]

I was European export manager for an electronics manufacturer before we joined the E.U. (and after) and there weren't any queues.
Our products also had to comply with the safety regs and most European countries had their own different standards (and currencies) to which our products had to be tested, approved and documentation presented.
Plus ça change...........

 

[2x2camper]

Don't worry we will have a trade deal with Zero tariffs and none of this will be relevant, then everyone (press especially) can complain about the waste of money spent on all these preparations for sabre rattling!

Unfortunately whether we have a trade deal or not is irrelevant as we will still have to make import and export declarations for trade to and from the EU which we did not have to do when we were in the EU. This is the practical issue not the paying of duties.

If you speak to the trade ie freight forwarders they are just forecasting chaos and it probably will be.

Key systems have not even been rewritten and won't be ready till march/April at the earliest.

Some information will not be released ie EROI numbers for northen Ireland till December and some won't get them till 21 Dec if they have not already registered.

The system for NI is not being released till to 21st Dec with no trade testing. Also they are setong up a call centre in NI to do the check on imports to NI from GB. Don't know how that is going but that is more expense the country has that we didn't before Brexit.

As I said a trade deal won't solve the practical issues.

 

[Gellyneck]

Don't worry we will have a trade deal with Zero tariffs and none of this will be relevant, then everyone (press especially) can complain about the waste of money spent on all these preparations for sabre rattling!

Don't think it works as easy as that.
Whilst there may be zero rated tariffs there will still be documentation \ checks required to prove goods are of UK \ EU origin (in free circulation) and therefore entitled to zero tariff.
This link gives some insight as to rules around origin.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rules-of-origin
As matamoros says this is "relatively" easily managed where the goods are unaccompanied and a dwell at a port for a day or two is manageable but the cost \ disruption to a supply chain that is relying on accompanied goods (basically a lorry with a driver) would be a different matter.

But we already do that for stuff that comes from outside the EU, so we must have systems in place already.

Yes, there are systems in place however, as outlined above, it can take days to clear Customs whilst Customs entries are made, duty is paid, VAT is paid, etc. What additional volume of trade would now have to go through these procedures?
This is a link to the "Tariff" (basically the book) that import agents \ importers use to classify the correct tariff code, duty rate, etc for goods being imported to UK. The same product from different countries throughout the world may, or may not, attract the same, or different, duty rate.

UK Integrated Online Tariff: Look up commodity codes, duty and VAT rates - GOV.UK

www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk

ps not suggesting you read it as the hard copy is over 6,000 pages long!
Way back when, it could take up to a day to remove old pages and insert new pages on a monthly basis when it was hardcopy only. And you had to pay hundreds of pounds per copy for the pleasure of doing so.

I was European export manager for an electronics manufacturer before we joined the E.U. (and after) and there weren't any queues.
Our products also had to comply with the safety regs and most European countries had their own standards to which our products had to be tested, approved and documentation presented.
Plus ça change...........

But how many Customs officers were there in The Long Room, Landing Office, Waterguard, etc at each point of exit \ entry at that time dealing with that documentation?
Remember it well what with Inwards \ Outward processing relief, Tanshipment Goods, Merchandise in Baggage, etc, etc, etc..... C10's, C275's, XS48's, etc, etc, etc.........

 

[2657]

I was European export manager for an electronics manufacturer before we joined the E.U. (and after) and there weren't any queues.
Our products also had to comply with the safety regs and most European countries had their own standards to which our products had to be tested, approved and documentation presented.
Plus ça change...........

I remember those far off days too, no supermarkets, no shopping centres, no tomatoes in the winter etc.........no consumerism on the scale of today
I also remember turning up at Dover with a slight mistake on the T form, fortunately at that time their was an abundance of agents in Dover able to modify and re serve the form, only caused a delay of 3 hours or so!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Googlebot]

People all saying that we used to do this before we joined the EU, the crucial difference is that so did everyone else.

We now have a huge disadvantage in being the only former EU member that has to bother. This isn’t me being anti Brexit. It’s a practicality that we have to get around and be prepared for it to cause us a lot of problems.

 

[sciac2001]

Physical Customs clearances at point and time of arrival are so 20th century.
A majority of international trade is repetitive and technological paper trail systems should easily deal with it.
The only point-of-entry hold-ups for this majority should only involve randomly selected and specifically targetted individual imports as has always been the case.

Whether the willingness by vested interests to make it work smoothly exists, is another matter.

 

[Spriddler]

Way back when, it could take up to a day to remove old pages and insert new pages on a monthly basis when it was hardcopy only. And you had to pay hundreds of pounds per copy for the pleasure of doing so.


But how many Customs officers were there in The Long Room, Landing Office, Waterguard, etc at each point of exit \ entry at that time dealing with that documentation?
Remember it well what with Inwards \ Outward processing relief, Tanshipment Goods, Merchandise in Baggage, etc, etc, etc..... C10's, C275's, XS48's, etc, etc, etc.........

Agreed, it wasn't perfect but we had a couple of experienced staff in our export admin section who were experienced in producing the documentation in multiple sets on typewriters with two feet wide carriages (how I miss the smell of slippery carbon paper).

Nowadays, regs can be accessed instantly online and instead of drivers carrying folders of grubby and dog-eared certified documents in multiple copies the internet and electronic communication simplifies the preparation and distribution of documentation. No rubber stamping at ports necessary as documents can be certified/approved before the driver leaves the factory.
(One of my sons has been working on contract to HMRC for two years helping to create the necessary systems).

 

[2x2camper]

But we already do that for stuff that comes from outside the EU, so we must have systems in place already.

We do. Currently there is about 55 million declarations per year and the system is creaking at the seams. Forecast is for 270 million next year.

 

[Gellyneck]

Agreed, it wasn't perfect but we had a couple of experienced staff in our export admin section who were experienced in producing the documentation in multiple sets on typewriters with two feet wide carriages (how I miss the smell of slippery carbon paper).

Nowadays, regs can be accessed instantly online and instead of drivers carrying folders of grubby and dog-eared certified documents in multiple copies the internet and electronic communication simplifies the preparation and distribution of documentation.
(One of my sons has been working on contract to HMRC for two years helping to create the necessary systems).

Suppose a few questions drop out of that, and I agree, this should be simpler \ more automated.
How many companies still employ "export admin staff"? Are there sufficient freight forwarder, HMRC, etc staff in place?
What will the dwell time be to check electronic documentation? The vast majority of seaborne traffic (containers) is pre-entered but it does still take a day or two to clear the port.
How many internal EU drivers have any idea of what Customs documentation is and the importance of it?
This is no way a slight on your son, but with 35 days to go will the new systems but installed, implemented, tested and in a robust workable status on time?
As for grubby and dog-eared documentation don't get me started on ATA Carnets!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[filopastry]

ça ne fait rien ( San Fairy Ann) as the Tommy’s used to say

love your phonetic spelling, very helpful. You should have a look at other French phrases, it will help with the British reticence to try speak other languages.....


(del boy ....mange tout mange tout)

 

[Spriddler]

Suppose a few questions drop out of that, and I agree, this should be simpler \ more automated.
How many companies still employ "export admin staff"? Are there sufficient freight forwarder, HMRC, etc staff in place?

There'll be unemployed people who can be trained up in many areas of business for the 'new normal', but yes, it's not all going to happen without delays and considerable confusion during the learning curve. I think many businesses are "lah, lah lah 'ing" with their heads in the sand hoping it'll all go away.

 

[Jenka]

There are freight queues practically every day, the press are just stoking the fire,if the haulier has a good agent or freight forwarding clerk with sound knowledge of correct paperwork then it's something else that's causing the delay.

 

[John Barrett]

There are freight queues practically every day, the press are just stoking the fire,if the haulier has a good agent or freight forwarding clerk with sound knowledge of correct paperwork then it's something else that's causing the delay.

Agreed. I did a lot of QA work in the 90's for UK Freight Forwarders and I didn't notice any serious problems in those days, and nowadays with better comms. things can only have got better.

 

[Snowbird]

I remember those far off days too, no supermarkets, no shopping centres, no tomatoes in the winter etc.........no consumerism on the scale of today
I also remember turning up at Dover with a slight mistake on the T form, fortunately at that time their was an abundance of agents in Dover able to modify and re serve the form, only caused a delay of 3 hours or so!

Ah, the days of standing on those bloody steps on a cold wet night getting trailer carnets and T forms stamped. Parked up for hours and sometimes days waiting to clear and then someone wanting you on the bank to strip down a tilt. Returning from a night on the beer in Dover to be told you have cleared and must now leave. The female customs cab checker that took great delight in rummaging through your dirty laundry bag looking for contraband. The good old days before the EU.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}