Freight Queues for 5 miles For the Tunnel on Tuesday. (1 Viewer)

[Helen Ariel]

It wasn't a test as such, the French (and Dutch) systems are all already tested and ready to go and have been for months. This was more of a trial to preview what the effects are likely to be come the 1st January. The UK systems buy contrast aren't tested, or even fully written yet, which is why the government is suggesting they are likely to wave everything through for at least six months. This is known as 'controlling your borders'.

As others have said, the issue isn't tariffs as such but the other barriers to trade. So, most fish and shellfish caught in the UK is exported to Europe and currently requires you to fill in a small form of about five fields. This tweet by a shellfish exporter gives an idea of the paperwork they will have to do come January deal or no-deal. This is a reasonably sized company but your one-man mussel and crab boats etc will have to do pretty much exactly the same, it's just that most of them probably won't have the time to do it themselves or the money to pay someone else. Then once you've done all that, and your truck gets stuck in the Kent queuing zone for 48 hours your customer isn't going to want to pay for your produce anyway.

So many fishermen, especially the smaller ones, are in for a pretty rough time until such time as the UK gives up cod and other imported fish and starts eating more herring and mussels.

As an anti brexiter i do hope this is one positive to come about from it and that we start eating more of our own seafood even the weird ugly stuff. It won't be cheap though!

 

[Marmite]

Can someone explain why this thread seems to be bashing British Customs when it was the French checking their systems according to the OP

 

[Sus3v]

There was oooodles of money made as usual with the millennium bug scare

My son earned was paid over a thousand pounds millennium night and his whole team spent the night wheelie-chair racing up and down the corridors.

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[2x2camper]

Can someone explain why this thread seems to be bashing British Customs when it was the French checking their systems according to the OP

I think there were just a few of us explaining that we are going to have to get used to similar queues, due to lack of preparation on the UK side of the leaving the EU. Don't think anyone was bashing customs.

 

[Brains]

Can someone explain why this thread seems to be bashing British Customs when it was the French checking their systems according to the OP

If the queue is on the UK side, the the issue is with EU customs.
(*As the British have said, despite 5 years warning they are at least a year off being able to police the border, probably 2 or 3 years))

If the queue is on the French side then it's probably the EU (*Unless the British have finally caught up)
The official line from British Customs is to 'Wave all traffic through' (bar the usual level of stop & search)

The official line from the EU, is they have employed 50,000 extra customs staff over the last 4 years for exactly this eventuality, and they are going to use them.

Woe betide the motorhome that tries to sneak across without the GB sticker on the back, the headlamps dipped to the right, no less than two warning triangles and with the number of hi-viz vests matching the number of belted seats! (NOT stored in the garage)

 

[2657]

Will the arrangement that the French customs checks are undertaken on the UK side of the channel still be in place after the 1st January?

If so any queues on the UK side of the Channel will be due to their systems and manpower not ours?

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[nicholsong]

Will the arrangement that the French customs checks are undertaken on this side of the channel still be in place after thec1st January?

If so any queues on the UK side of the Channel will be due to their systems and manpower not ours?

Then the backend of the queues will be on the ferries, which will not be able to load and depart for a couple of hours till the queue has left them.

 

[2657]

Then the backend of the queues will be on the ferries, which will not be able to load and depart for a couple of hours till the queue has left them.

I have now edited my post so that it is clearer what I meant, the queues will be in the UK before embarkation.

 

[martin2603]

Just one point to add. 75 per cent of truck drivers are from Easter Europe with very little command of the English Language, Hiw will the APNR cope with so many foreign vehicles? The old saying that comes to mind is “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”!!!
The U.K. voters have made their bed and now they must lay in it ! With of course up to a 6 per cent reduction in GDP forecast.

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[filopastry]

Maybe on the 1st January we will all wake up and the good fairy "common sense" will have waived his magic wand and 2020 will all have been a dream as we step out of the shower.

P.s. May need to explain this to the younger members

May we all stay safe and continue to gently take the mickey as only Brits can do throughout this sh*t storm

 

[David and Sally]

May we all stay safe and continue to gently take the mickey as only Brits can do throughout this sh*t storm

Amen to that

 

[phroco]

As an anti brexiter i do hope this is one positive to come about from it and that we start eating more of our own seafood even the weird ugly stuff. It won't be cheap though!

Yep, though it doesn't just apply to just seafood. To quote this meat industry website

"British consumers tend to eat a limited range of meat cuts (for example, chops and steaks). When producers process a carcase, they have excess meat, which can’t be sold in the UK market and needs to be exported. However, popular cuts of meat still need to be imported to meet the UK’s needs. Meat processing companies rely on imports for 26% of their supply, with the rest coming from UK farms. "

So people may need to get used to eating a much more cosmopolitan range of meat body parts and associated offal etc in order to keep UK farmers in business.

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[Helen Ariel]

Yep, though it doesn't just apply to just seafood. To quote this meat industry website

"British consumers tend to eat a limited range of meat cuts (for example, chops and steaks). When producers process a carcase, they have excess meat, which can’t be sold in the UK market and needs to be exported. However, popular cuts of meat still need to be imported to meet the UK’s needs. Meat processing companies rely on imports for 26% of their supply, with the rest coming from UK farms. "

So people may need to get used to eating a much more cosmopolitan range of meat body parts and associated offal etc in order to keep UK farmers in business.

I'll happily play my part in that! So would my dog. There is a growing market for raw feeding dogs and a lot of offal and unusual cuts could go to that but obviously needs promotion and will be very hard for producers and who knows if they can survive the changes.

 

[nicholsong]

Yep, though it doesn't just apply to just seafood. To quote this meat industry website

"British consumers tend to eat a limited range of meat cuts (for example, chops and steaks). When producers process a carcase, they have excess meat, which can’t be sold in the UK market and needs to be exported. However, popular cuts of meat still need to be imported to meet the UK’s needs. Meat processing companies rely on imports for 26% of their supply, with the rest coming from UK farms. "

So people may need to get used to eating a much more cosmopolitan range of meat body parts and associated offal etc in order to keep UK farmers in business.

No problem for me, as I like liver, kidneys, neck of lamb stew, pork belly, hock, bath chap(pig cheek), brawn and on and on. I think a lot of older people do, especially northerners, but the younger generation may need some 'educating' - now bend over you fussy lot or you will go to bed early without any supper.

Geoff

 

[phroco]

May we all stay safe and continue to gently take the mickey as only Brits can do throughout this sh*t storm

Yep, it's not all bad news! https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/brexit-will-spark-rise-in-dogging-213622/

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[Coolcats]

Yep, though it doesn't just apply to just seafood. To quote this meat industry website

"British consumers tend to eat a limited range of meat cuts (for example, chops and steaks). When producers process a carcase, they have excess meat, which can’t be sold in the UK market and needs to be exported. However, popular cuts of meat still need to be imported to meet the UK’s needs. Meat processing companies rely on imports for 26% of their supply, with the rest coming from UK farms. "

So people may need to get used to eating a much more cosmopolitan range of meat body parts and associated offal etc in order to keep UK farmers in business.

Glad I am a vegetarian but that's not the issue, I guess as it is about all fresh produce whether exporting or importing. I did see in the news a month or so ago that Lord Agnew (education minister) advised schools and universities to stock up on long life products in case of a no deal. I hope there is an agreement but if not I think as you say we may have to look at what we eat at mealtimes may change a little.

 

[Chrisvh]

An opportunity to take back control of our diets perhaps?

 

[Jaws]

Yep, it's not all bad news! https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/brexit-will-spark-rise-in-dogging-213622/

Typical minister.. Out of all the poo, trials, tribulations the whole world is going through, he picks that to bring up as being important !!
Absolute tosspot and demonstrates again why 90% of the morons should be put out to grass or simply put down and stop wasting air !

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[John Barrett]

Typical minister.. Out of all the poo, trials, tribulations the whole world is going through, he picks that to bring up as being important !!
Absolute tosspot and demonstrates again why 90% of the morons should be put out to grass or simply put down and stop wasting air !

I couldn't find the name of the alleged miscreant. Could you?

 

[Jaws]

I couldn't find the name of the alleged miscreant. Could you?

Did not bother to be honest.. Proly a Tarquin or similar

 

[RidersofRohan]

Im a northerner so I don't know much.
But I have blueberries with my breakfast cereal every day. They come from the supermarket but they are not made there, because they have a country of origin on the label. Sometimes from an EU country and other times from all over the world. My present ones are from Peru. Generally there are usually some bad ones in the packet, but the worst for this are from the EU. Peru and Egypt are much better. Now I know neither of these are in the EU, so they have lots of paperwork and customs checks, but they get to my fridge in better condition than those from our friends.
I find it hard to believe that stuff comes from the EU without any paperwork. If that's the case how on earth do we know how much is imported and exported, we keep being told our trade with the EU is xx% amount, how do they know this if nothing is recorded? Ok there will be more paper when importing from outside.
I read somewhere that Canadian small exporters are reluctant to use the new EU trade deal because of the paperwork involved and have found it easier to pay the duty under WTO. No idea if this is true.
If the French want to work to rule they will do, they just as easily will ignore all rules when it suits them. But these are imports to the EU, customers in the EU are the ones who suffer when lorries are delayed in Kent not us. We keep hearing about Just in Time supply lines, so its French factories that are stuck for parts.
I am hoping my blueberries will be in better condition and cheaper too next year. I will let you know.

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[Clipgate]

The last WTO schedule I used was written around 1972, to the best of my knowledge it's not been renegotiated since.
The items subject to inter trade tariff is eye watering. Each one, yes each item has to be agreed with every member. It all sounds easy when a MP says "we fall back on WTO rules"
May I suggest they get a copy and attempt to interpret the contra trade tariff rates. Then inspect or pre advise by declaration, next collect the tariff charged.
Some will be trusted status like large Supermarkets, importing food etc. Others like car manufacturers use small supplier's.
Whatever the speed of transit maybe cost is going to be a real issue

 

[ElliesBoss]

I remember those far off days too, no supermarkets, no shopping centres, no tomatoes in the winter etc.........no consumerism on the scale of today
I also remember turning up at Dover with a slight mistake on the T form, fortunately at that time their was an abundance of agents in Dover able to modify and re serve the form, only caused a delay of 3 hours or so!

Ah I remember the shipping agents! Sat around for hours (if there were any seats) in a smoke filled room waiting for paperwork. Then joy of joys you'd get stopped by customs who'd want to check the load corresponded to said paperwork. Happy memories.

 

[RidersofRohan]

The last WTO schedule I used was written around 1972, to the best of my knowledge it's not been renegotiated since.
The items subject to inter trade tariff is eye watering. Each one, yes each item has to be agreed with every member. It all sounds easy when a MP says "we fall back on WTO rules"
May I suggest they get a copy and attempt to interpret the contra trade tariff rates. Then inspect or pre advise by declaration, next collect the tariff charged.
Some will be trusted status like large Supermarkets, importing food etc. Others like car manufacturers use small supplier's.
Whatever the speed of transit maybe cost is going to be a real issue

But we trade under WTO terms now, and so does the rest of the EU where there isn't a trade deal. So that's USA, China, Australia and Brazil for starters.
In 2016 before I decided how to vote I looked at the list of trade deals the EU had. At the time I estimated that 80% were French speaking, great if your Peugeot but otherwise for the UK not so sure. Since then they have added Canada and Japan.

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[2x2camper]

I find it hard to believe that stuff comes from the EU without any paperwork. If that's the case how on earth do we know how much is imported and exported, we keep being told our trade with the EU is xx% amount, how do they know this if nothing is recorded? Ok there will be more paper when importing from outside.

Delivery paperwork has to go with the goods, however there are no declarations when it crosses country borders as it is a single market.

What a company has to do, is assuming their import and export above the exemption limits is file two forms, both done electronically.

An EU Sales List by country,VAT number and invoice value, as well as an Intrasrat List which contains commodity codes, weights, document reference etc. While this is a pain it means that the documentation does not have to be with the goods when it is delivered.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Delivery paperwork has to go with the goods, however there are no declarations when it crosses country borders as it is a single market.

What a company has to do, is assuming their import and export above the exemption limits is file two forms, both done electronically.

An EU Sales List by country,VAT number and invoice value, as well as an Intrasrat List which contains commodity codes, weights, document reference etc. While this is a pain it means that the documentation does not have to be with the goods when it is delivered.

Very interesting, Thanks.

 

[2x2camper]

Very interesting, Thanks.

And going back to having to make declarations for each consignment is where our problems are now, even forgetting about the cost.

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[maison]

Just one point to add. 75 per cent of truck drivers are from Easter Europe with very little command of the English Language, Hiw will the APNR cope with so many foreign vehicles? The old saying that comes to mind is “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”!!!
The U.K. voters have made their bed and now they must lay in it ! With of course up to a 6 per cent reduction in GDP forecast.

Don’t you just love reports of “up to xxx%”

Dettol kills up to 99.9% of all household germs. 0.0000009% effectiveness is within that range.

 

[AXO66]

Interesting view from a bloke who appears to have some knowledgeknowledge

who knows if his concerns will affect all uk ports.

but he does raise a few unknowns.

Freight Industry Perspective: Customs Clearance in Post-Brexit Britain

International freight forwarder John Shirley offers his perspective on the future of the UK-EU customs relationship after Brexit.

ucleuropeblog.com

 

[gus-lopez]

I thought 'just-on-time' was the new way to be economically efficient these days?

Yep all those JIT deliveries to Uk car plants my friends company delivers are going to be in trouble.

I was European export manager for an electronics manufacturer before we joined the E.U. (and after) and there weren't any queues.
Our products also had to comply with the safety regs and most European countries had their own different standards (and currencies) to which our products had to be tested, approved and documentation presented.
Plus ça change...........

But now it is 10,000 trucks per day crossing the channel. How many was it back then ?

I couldn't find the name of the alleged miscreant. Could you?

It isn't available anywhere.

To me any type of delay is completely unacceptable, regardless of which side is responsible.

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