Could this be a workaround for the EU Pet Passport after 1 Jan 2021? (1 Viewer)

[maz]

Seeing as the EU is the one wanting the new AHC then it would be the EU country of arrival who would need to check it, if they realise the cost of doing it this might persuade them to give us Part 1 status!

Let’s hope so!

 

[emjaiuk]

Another thing to add to the mix ... if you were NOT allowed to obtain an EU PP whilst in one of the EU countries, no-one could 'adopt' a dog abroad, get an EU passport for it, and then bring it to the UK, which they do. This wouldn't be negated with Brexit as the dog PP would be produced in an EU country not the UK.

Although I expect there are exceptions, I thought most UK rescues who specialise in European animals work in conjunction with local people who I presume handle the original PP application. One of our rescues has a Greek passport which has been used for trips to and from Europe several times. Nobody however has given an official categoric assurance that this will still be valid for UK domiciled dogs in the future. I live in hope that sensible minds will prevail and we will soon be granted part 1 status. If Gibraltar can get it with a common land border to Spain then it seems utterly wrong that our island can't get it.

 

[Thedriver]

Although I expect there are exceptions, I thought most UK rescues who specialise in European animals work in conjunction with local people who I presume handle the original PP application. One of our rescues has a Greek passport which has been used for trips to and from Europe several times. Nobody however has given an official categoric assurance that this will still be valid for UK domiciled dogs in the future. I live in hope that sensible minds will prevail and we will soon be granted part 1 status. If Gibraltar can get it with a common land border to Spain then it seems utterly wrong that our island can't get it.

Just thought as you mention dogs that enter the UK with a EU PP, many rescue dogs come with a PP. I have a puppy at mo, More work at my age than I thought, but looking for a rescue, although most rescue centres were closed for Covid. They were charging extra for a dog that came with a PP so I assume the could be transferred to a Third Party although they would presumably have to be renewed in EU when PP is full and needs replacing. I think though as rules have been changed now we have to check whether this is still possible, Check,check and check again as we are looking now looking at checks on both sides of La Manche. Bruce

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[Lynne Roy]

Lost Paws rescue Sotira Cyprus have been sending rescue dogs over to new uk homes throughout covid epidemic. Excellent rescue centre, matching up the right dog to the right home. I cannot recommend them highly enough. Still praying we can use her Cypriot passport for our travels, but looks unlikely

 

[Thedriver]

Lost Paws rescue Sotira Cyprus have been sending rescue dogs over to new uk homes throughout covid epidemic. Excellent rescue centre, matching up the right dog to the right home. I cannot recommend them highly enough. Still praying we can use her Cypriot passport for our travels, but looks unlikely

This is what we have to find out, until some one tries we will never know. Unless there is something on euro websites that we havn't found yet. Perhaps it's possible to go out on AHC and return on Euro PP and if we are refused entry produce the AHC with tapeworm treatment by French vet to cover ourselves. Bit cloak and dagger though

 

[Minxy]

Just thought as you mention dogs that enter the UK with a EU PP, many rescue dogs come with a PP. I have a puppy at mo, More work at my age than I thought, but looking for a rescue, although most rescue centres were closed for Covid. They were charging extra for a dog that came with a PP so I assume the could be transferred to a Third Party although they would presumably have to be renewed in EU when PP is full and needs replacing. I think though as rules have been changed now we have to check whether this is still possible, Check,check and check again as we are looking now looking at checks on both sides of La Manche. Bruce

Yes many of the shelters usually sort it as part of the adoption process however some people adopt strays and bring them back to the UK and in order to do that have had to obtain an EU PP so it obviously is possible, whether it will still be after the end of 2020 is the question.

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[emjaiuk]

This is what we have to find out, until some one tries we will never know. Unless there is something on euro websites that we havn't found yet. Perhaps it's possible to go out on AHC and return on Euro PP and if we are refused entry produce the AHC with tapeworm treatment by French vet to cover ourselves. Bit cloak and dagger though

That bit's not the problem. It's been clearly stated what the entry requirements are for the UK, e.g. official vet record of worming within the prescribed time period. This can be shown on an AHC OR as I understand it on a pet passport with current inoculation on it.
The problem which MAY occur is a UK resident taking a dog with a EU passport into Europe after Jan.1st. As I've said before, I would have thought that the chances of the EU bureaucracy issuing any form of health certificate for an animal residing outside their control is highly unlikely. If they were prepared to do that they would have given us part 1 status from the beginning. The reality is that the French could well not bother checking cats/dogs accompanying tourists from the UK, but that puts you at the mercy of which side of the bed they got out of. A bit like A frames

 

[Minxy]

What we need is someone who is going abroad from 1st January 2021 and taking a dog/cat/ferret and see what the actual practicalities are 'on the ground', eg are there any checks done for leaving the UK and if so where and by whom.

 

[maz]

What we need is someone who is going abroad from 1st January 2021 and taking a dog/cat/ferret and see what the actual practicalities are 'on the ground', eg are there any checks done for leaving the UK and if so where and by whom.

Mel - your mission, should you choose to accept it ......... (cue music).

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[Thedriver]

Yes many of the shelters usually sort it as part of the adoption process however some people adopt strays and bring them back to the UK and in order to do that have had to obtain an EU PP so it obviously is possible, whether it will still be after the end of 2020 is the question.

Hi Minxy Girl, Another one to ponder over, I remember seeing on Gov website a while ago the EU citizens returning to EU after visiting UK would require an AHC.To return to EU.
Check out Guvernment.NL Brexit questions and answers. It was stated a while ago that they ( EU citizens ) would have to wait 4 months to return and I remember thinking thats no good for people returning from , eg Spain,for a visit . They seemed to have dropped that completely now.
That link covers Travelling to and from the UK from the Netherlands with your PP after brexit. Bruce. This might put the cat among you pidgins!!.

 

[Thedriver]

That bit's not the problem. It's been clearly stated what the entry requirements are for the UK, e.g. official vet record of worming within the prescribed time period. This can be shown on an AHC OR as I understand it on a pet passport with current inoculation on it.
The problem which MAY occur is a UK resident taking a dog with a EU passport into Europe after Jan.1st. As I've said before, I would have thought that the chances of the EU bureaucracy issuing any form of health certificate for an animal residing outside their control is highly unlikely. If they were prepared to do that they would have given us part 1 status from the beginning. The reality is that the French could well not bother checking cats/dogs accompanying tourists from the UK, but that puts you at the mercy of which side of the bed they got out of. A bit like A frames

Good point, Which reinforces my theory that we Check, and check again. Personally I don't think it will be that easy!! Bruce

 

[Minxy]

Mel - your mission, should you choose to accept it ......... (cue music).

Oh how I wish I could as we'd love to get away to some sunshine and warm weather, but we're in Tier 3 so can't 'official' go anywhere even if the other countries would accept us, also having got my Mum eating properly again (well just about) I don't want to disrupt that.

So stop tempting me!

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[Nigel P]

This is a section from the Brexit agreement draft:

s/MIME functionality is built into the vast majority of modern e-mail software packages including Outlook, Mozilla Mail as well as Netscape Communicator 4.x and inter-operates among all major e-mail software packages.

This has nothing to do with pet travel but could be indicative of the level of accuracy in the current brexit document; Netscape has not been updated since 1997 and went out of service in 2008. Hardly 'modern' software packages. There has been some criticism in the press today around chunks of 'cut and paste' from an old EU document(2008). Nothing is ever as simple as people would make you believe.

 

[Minxy]

To be honest with what's been going on this year everywhere I'm amazed that they even got a deal sorted at all and that an extension wasn't asked for. The deal may need certain bits updating to reflect current software etc but the basic premis is there which is what matters.

 

[Nigel P]

This the current European Council draft (I have edited out the lengthy references to other enabling regs to save space!) The first paragraph is immediately ambiguous, issued to a UK resident is not the same as a passport issued in the UK, which is actually what it should read. The rules for EU citizens visiting the UK -they can return to the EU (via the relevant approved ports on an EU pet passport (not a UK issued one) - after a temporary visit (how long is temporary, our brexit transition period was temporary!) Is it expected that a citizen who moves from an EU country and becomes resident here would need to acquire a UK pet passport in lieu of their existing one for the duration of their residency and then repeat the process each time they move back and forth to the EU/UK. This would appear an enormously unweildy arrangement. Taking the literal meaning of the first paragraph it would appear that an EU passport NOT issued in the UK remains a valid document for travel to the EU 27. I would say there is much more tidying up to do before these regulations are applied.

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[Nigel P]

To be honest with what's been going on this year everywhere I'm amazed that they even got a deal sorted at all and that an extension wasn't asked for. The deal may need certain bits updating to reflect current software etc but the basic premis is there which is what matters.

I agree, my point was really about the attention to detail when drafting the legislation.

 

[Minxy]

I agree, my point was really about the attention to detail when drafting the legislation.

Yes I understand that but at least once the basic deal is in place it can be updated to the current situation, whereas not having anything in place at all gives you nothing TO update.

 

[Nigel P]

Too true, it just puts those who are planning early trips to the EU in a position of great uncertainty until all these little grey areas are resolved. I have a specific interest in the wording as my own dog has a pet passport issued to a previous owner in Eire, there is nothing in the regulations that covers the transfer of ownership it merely relates to the issue of the passport, which in my case remains a valid EU document. As we are now resident in the UK we have a compliant document which may be compromised by poorly worded regulations which refer to where we now live and somehow conflates that with the country of issue of the passport which are completely unconnected. My point was that if I decide to move back to Germany and become resident there again I could retain the current EU pet passport and be free to travel back and forth to the EU/UK, the same dog travelling between the same countries but potentially different rules based upon where I live not the dog!

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[Minxy]

Too true, it just puts those who are planning early trips to the EU in a position of great uncertainty until all these little grey areas are resolved. I have a specific interest in the wording as my own dog has a pet passport issued to a previous owner in Eire, there is nothing in the regulations that covers the transfer of ownership it merely relates to the issue of the passport, which in my case remains a valid EU document. As we are now resident in the UK we have a compliant document which may be compromised by poorly worded regulations which refer to where we now live and somehow conflates that with the country of issue of the passport which are completely unconnected. My point was that if I decide to move back to Germany and become resident there again I could retain the current EU pet passport and be free to travel back and forth to the EU/UK, the same dog travelling between the same countries but potentially different rules based upon where I live not the dog!

Surely you should've updated the PP to show you are the dog's owner now including the microchip tracking? If not and you lose your dog, when it's found you could have difficulty in proving it is yours even if you do have the PP as it is not shown in your name. Its not a risk I'd take with my dogs.

 

[maz]

This the current European Council draft (I have edited out the lengthy references to other enabling regs to save space!) The first paragraph is immediately ambiguous, issued to a UK resident is not the same as a passport issued in the UK, which is actually what it should read. The rules for EU citizens visiting the UK -they can return to the EU (via the relevant approved ports on an EU pet passport (not a UK issued one) - after a temporary visit (how long is temporary, our brexit transition period was temporary!) Is it expected that a citizen who moves from an EU country and becomes resident here would need to acquire a UK pet passport in lieu of their existing one for the duration of their residency and then repeat the process each time they move back and forth to the EU/UK. This would appear an enormously unweildy arrangement. Taking the literal meaning of the first paragraph it would appear that an EU passport NOT issued in the UK remains a valid document for travel to the EU 27. I would say there is much more tidying up to do before these regulations are applied.

Very interesting - thank you.

I’m hoping that Part 2 listed country will turn out to be a misprint and they really mean Part 1.

 

[Thedriver]

Surely you should've updated the PP to show you are the dog's owner now including the microchip tracking? If not and you lose your dog, when it's found you could have difficulty in proving it is yours even if you do have the PP as it is not shown in your name. Its not a risk I'd take with my dogs.

You are of course absolutely right, there is a section for dog ownership in PP, The old ones had 3 owners the newer ones had space for only 2. Microchip details also recorded in there, although we have the m/ship original registration paperwork separately which also has to be changed to new owner. Bruce

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[gus-lopez]

Having said that, where on earth are they going to put the dog checking facilities at the Tunnel or ports?

Plenty of room at the tunnel.
At dover they have plenty of room & parking for when you have to go to the "bungalow" to be scammed for more money due to being over height, over length, too wide,pay for UK road usage,etc, .It isn't as though there's a 1000 animals on every boat.
** In fact there is actually a maximum amount od animals allowed per cross channel ferry.

everyone will require an AHC before entering France/ Europe, but who's checking it?

No they won't.Only applies to Uk residents

or Dover docks is very limited, w

As above acres of room + parking,when they want money.

Yes many of the shelters usually sort it as part of the adoption process however some people adopt strays and bring them back to the UK and in order to do that have had to obtain an EU PP so it obviously is possible, whether it will still be after the end of 2020 is the question.

Tam Northernraider did it on 2 seperate occasions.

Hi Minxy Girl, Another one to ponder over, I remember seeing on Gov website a while ago the EU citizens returning to EU after visiting UK would require an AHC.To return to EU.

Doesn't mean to say it was correct.It has never been the case with DEFRA.
I specifically asked the question when it was first mooted.
I have an email I posted last week stating categorically that EU pet passport holders who enter the Uk do not require an ahc to leave .
& that is from 2 years ago.

**just checked the date & it was 19/02 2019
Additionally they don't ask for an ahc with a pet passport for returning from morocco? just the titre test

 

[bobandjanie]

GOV WEBSITE UPDATED>

Not sure if anyone has posted this. Much better than I hoped. Also I double checked by clicking on the link 'Getting an Animal Health Certificate.

Taking your pet dog, cat or ferret abroad

Take your pet dog, cat or ferret abroad: getting a pet passport or export health certificate, microchip, vaccinations and tapeworm treatments.

www.gov.uk

I would advise that any valid EU (still EU!) issued passport is kept that way by getting vaccinations done in the EU. Janie

 

[Minxy]

Not sure if anyone has posted this. Much better than I hoped. Also I double checked by clicking on the link 'Getting an Animal Health Certificate.

Taking your pet dog, cat or ferret abroad

Take your pet dog, cat or ferret abroad: getting a pet passport or export health certificate, microchip, vaccinations and tapeworm treatments.

www.gov.uk

I would advise that any valid EU (still EU!) issued passport is kept that wayby getting vaccinations done in the EU. Janie

This has been mooted a few times, what we don't know is if a UK resident is 'legally' able to get an EU pet passport for their dog/cat/ferret that will be recognised by the UK border control.

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[bobandjanie]

This has been mooted a few times, what we don't know is if a UK resident is 'legally' able to get an EU pet passport for their dog/cat/ferret that will be recognised by the UK border control.

I was one of those., because it didn't say.
But the website is for UK residents.
The information has changed.
I am reading it as it says it.
In at least two places.
Read it again, and the links on it.

Janie

 

[Oscar]

If we're understanding it correctly - you can get an EU passport for your dog whilst in the EU, which gets around the need to have an AHC prior to leaving the UK?
Could make travelling a lot easier

 

[Minxy]

I was one of those., because it didn't say.
But the website is for UK residents.
The information has changed.
I am reading it as it says it.
In at least two places.
Read it again, and the links on it.

Janie

Can you tell me what I've supposedly missed and/or what has changed?

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[bobandjanie]

Can you tell me what I've supposedly missed and/or what has changed?

I don't have screenshots of the previous pages, I am sure some people on here do. I can promise you....it never said what I have highlighted below. Janie

maz

 

[Minxy]

I don't have screenshots of the previous pages, I am sure some people on here do. I can promise you....it never said what I have highlighted below. Janie

View attachment 454056
View attachment 454057
maz

That's exactly the same as it was earlier when the Brexit info was put on and not what I was referring to, we all know that the UK accepts EU issued pet passports what we do NOT know is whether one obtained by a UK resident in the EU would be recognised by the UK border control or whether as UK residents they would insist on it being an AHC ...

We also don't know if EU vets will be willing to issue UK residents' pets with EU passports either.

 

[bobandjanie]

That's exactly the same as it was earlier when the Brexit info was put on and not what I was referring to, we all know that the UK accepts EU issued pet passports what we do NOT know is whether one obtained by a UK resident in the EU would be recognised by the UK border control or whether as UK residents they would insist on it being an AHC ...

We also don't know if EU vets will be willing to issue UK residents' pets with EU passports either.

I beg to differ. That was not the previous wording. I am sure maz will have the screenshots.
It is not about the UK accepting them. It is about travelling from the UK. It is a page for UK residents after all, it is not one for EU citizens in the UK.
I don't even need one, Izzy has a Spanish passport. But I was pleased, to see, that the wording had changed in that way.
Janie.

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