Angles Mort (2 Viewers)

[jongood]

And the cab doors are exactly where the angles morts stickers should be, to warn the lemmings! No damn use in the glovebox!

On a truck maybe. You can't lose them on a PVC or Coachbuilt. If you can't see a cyclist in either one then you should be considering altering your mirrors.

 

[TonyEmm]

On a truck maybe. You can't lose them on a PVC or Coachbuilt. If you can't see a cyclist in either one then you should be considering altering your mirrors.

That’s complete rubbish! How many times is the excuse for a car accident “He was in my blind spot”?
PVC’s have huge blind spots!
Our 1600kg passenger car has blind spots!

 

[jongood]

That’s complete rubbish! How many times is the excuse for a car accident “He was in my blind spot”?
PVC’s have huge blind spots!
Our 1600kg passenger car has blind spots!

We are specifically talking about blind spot stickers for larger vehicles relating to cyclists, these tend to occur when the cyclist is in the area I described and said vehicle makes a left turn unaware of their presence, or is reversing and cant see them, for clarity I'm not apportioning blame here.

As the issuing authorities (French Government) don't consider them necessary for vehicles less than 3500kgs I stand by my previous comments. cars do collide for a variety of reasons but there is no blind spot as it is known in the CV world.
I've had a C+E licence for over 30 years and regularly drive 44 tonners, so I do have a bit of experience. Note the word Ive made bold in your post.

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[Landy Andy]

So the cyclist CAN see a sticker, but doesn’t notice a big vehicle.

 

[TonyEmm]

So the cyclist CAN see a sticker, but doesn’t notice a big vehicle.

Of course he can see the vehicle, what he doesn’t know is that you can’t see him, that’s the whole point!

 

[jongood]

Of course he can see the vehicle, what he doesn’t know is that you can’t see him, that’s the whole point!

The simple fact is, that the minority of cyclists that get themselves in that position seem not to care about anything other than their own destination so a sticker isnt going to make any difference at all to them. You could actually argue that the more vehicles sport stickers the less likely they are to take any notice because its then not unusual.

During my last trip into London in a lorry, I was stopped in roadworks with cones confining the carriageway to a single lane and as usual completely surrounded by cyclists. So when the lights changed I waited for them to disperse and was just about to set off when (Fortunately) I saw a head and shoulder protruding from under the front of the trailer, the cyclist had apparently tried to duck under the trailer but mistimed it.

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[Tigertom]

That’s complete rubbish! How many times is the excuse for a car accident “He was in my blind spot”?
PVC’s have huge blind spots!
Our 1600kg passenger car has blind spots!

By your logic you must have angles mort stickers on your 1600kg passenger car…….or don’t you?

 

[racerdave]

Agreed, probably car and caravan is more dangerous than a Motorhome.
Have 360 cameras that I think are a bit better for safety than some stickers.

The problem with cameras is that some has to look at them. As A cyclist and a Motorhomer I can see both sides of the discussion.
What is the big problem with having a couple of stickers on. ??
At least then you have given the cyclists/ pedestrians fair warning

 

[jongood]

The problem with cameras is that some has to look at them. As A cyclist and a Motorhomer I can see both sides of the discussion.
What is the big problem with having a couple of stickers on. ??
At least then you have given the cyclists/ pedestrians fair warning

They re huge and ugly and will make no difference.

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[Purple2]

The worlds gone mad.

I would love to know what the statistics are for people killed by vehicles with blind spots ?.

Versus speeding cars, drunk or drugged drivers, bald tyres, falling asleep at the wheel. Etc

And what percentage of people take any notice with or without signs ?. I was driving my van up the A6 through manchester a couple of weeks ago. Some prat on a bicycle undertook me as I was about to turn left.,

Blind spots are truly huge, when I was a fleet driver trainer I regularly stood 150 feet behind a lorry and driver couldn’t see me. Also had teacher and 15 kids round mini buses and driver couldn’t see one of them. You are, per mile driven, 130 times more likely to have a collision in reverse and reversing is all about blind spots by its sheer nature. Mirrors by design see blind spots as we don’t have eyes in the back of our head but mirrors don’t see all ‘blind spots’. We all thought stripes on the rear of HGVs were strange at first but now they just register subconsciously and who knows how many lives they’ve saved but undoubtedly they have.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

The problem with cameras is that some has to look at them

So if I put stickers on my van I can then just turn without looking at mirrors/360 cameras as no cyclist would come up the inside as they have seen my stickers?
Sounds plausible !!

 

[Lenny HB]

The guy on the pushbike, between you and the kerb can’t see them in your glovebox!
you’ve spent the money, USE THEM and leave them on! Angles Morts stickers are a bit of a novelty in the U.K., they might have more of an impact (pun intended).

They would be on the wrong side in the UK unless you fit two, yuck they look awful.

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[icantremember]

Should I put the stickers on my toad?

 

[TonyEmm]

Should I put the stickers on my toad?

Not a bad idea though not legally required!
on another forum, there have been numerous reports of cyclists, pedestrians and even cars trying to squeeze through the gap between TOAD and MoHo!

I’ve had 2 instances where pedestrians have stepped off the pavement and walked into my drawbar!

 

[TonyEmm]

They would be on the wrong side in the UK unless you fit two, yuck they look awful.

You’ve not read the rules. They need to be affixed both sides, and at the rear! 2 isn’t enough…. https://www.securite-routiere.gouv....9_11_2020_am_signilisation_angles_morts-1.pdf

or, if you prefer English, have a look at https://www.iota.org.uk/blog/blind-...france-new-law-in-place-from-1st-january-2021

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[TonyEmm]

They would be on the wrong side in the UK unless you fit two, yuck they look awful.

Not as awful as a kid and their bike squashed under your MoHo….

 

[Lenny HB]

Not as awful as a kid and their bike squashed under your MoHo….

If they had enough sense to read the sign they wouldn't be riding that close to you.

 

[nicholsong]

You’ve not read the rules. They need to be affixed both sides, and at the rear! 2 isn’t enough…. https://www.securite-routiere.gouv....9_11_2020_am_signilisation_angles_morts-1.pdf

or, if you prefer English, have a look at https://www.iota.org.uk/blog/blind-...france-new-law-in-place-from-1st-january-2021

The English version contains 'in a urban environment', which I have read elsewhere, but I cannot find that in the French version.

Can somebody please explain/clarify that?

Geoff

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[TonyEmm]

If they had enough sense to read the sign they wouldn't be riding that close to you.

They can’t read it when it’s in the glovebox…

 

[TonyEmm]

The English version contains 'in a urban environment', which I have read elsewhere, but I cannot find that in the French version.

Can somebody please explain/clarify that?

Geoff

Hmm, I don’t where that’s crept in to the translation either.

Article R313-32-1 - Code de la route - Légifrance

www.legifrance.gouv.fr

(English translation according to Google [my French isn’t that good])
“
Created by Decree n ° 2020-1396 of November 17, 2020 - art. 1
With the exception of agricultural and forestry vehicles, on the one hand, and winter service vehicles and intervention vehicles of the services managing highways or roads with two separate carriageways as defined respectively in points 5.6.1 and 6.6 of Article R. 311-1 of this code, on the other hand, vehicles with a total authorized laden weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes must bear, visible on the sides and at the rear of the vehicle, a sign showing the position of blind spots.

The model of the signage and its methods of affixing are fixed by joint order of the Minister in charge of transport and the Minister in charge of road safety.

The fact, for any driver, of contravening the obligation of signaling imposed by this article and the measures taken for its application is punished by the fine provided for contraventions of the fourth class.”

A class 4 fine is €135.

 

[jongood]

They can’t read it when it’s in the glovebox…

Theyre not going to take any notice anyway.

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[SSILVO]

Blind spots are truly huge, when I was a fleet driver trainer I regularly stood 150 feet behind a lorry and driver couldn’t see me. Also had teacher and 15 kids round mini buses and driver couldn’t see one of them. You are, per mile driven, 130 times more likely to have a collision in reverse and reversing is all about blind spots by its sheer nature. Mirrors by design see blind spots as we don’t have eyes in the back of our head but mirrors don’t see all ‘blind spots’. We all thought stripes on the rear of HGVs were strange at first but now they just register subconsciously and who knows how many lives they’ve saved but undoubtedly they have.

yes you are right every single person has a blind spot (visual limitation) in their eyes caused by where the optic nerve enters the eye , so when a car pulls out on a motorcycle and claims they didn't see him,it is invariably true. as the brain writes over the blind spot with information from either side,
it is easy to prove using the attachment i have included from the book Human performance and limitations in aviation P25 .

To overcome this issue its important to before pulling out shift your head position slightly so that the blind spot that could be hiding that bike is moved to a different position. I chatted to an advanced driving instructor who could not believe this was not part of the test or any training

 

[jongood]

Blind spots are truly huge, when I was a fleet driver trainer I regularly stood 150 feet behind a lorry and driver couldn’t see me. Also had teacher and 15 kids round mini buses and driver couldn’t see one of them. You are, per mile driven, 130 times more likely to have a collision in reverse and reversing is all about blind spots by its sheer nature. Mirrors by design see blind spots as we don’t have eyes in the back of our head but mirrors don’t see all ‘blind spots’. We all thought stripes on the rear of HGVs were strange at first but now they just register subconsciously and who knows how many lives they’ve saved but undoubtedly they have.

With respect, these are not the issues that the stickers are meant to address. They are solely to inform cyclists in close proximity to a large vehicle. I wouldnt imagine a single cyclist has been saved by the chevrons, the fresnel lenses, the uk blind spot stickers or any of the other initiatives we've seen.

 

[Purple2]

Of course he can see the vehicle, what he doesn’t know is that you can’t see him, that’s the whole point!

That’s complete rubbish! How many times is the excuse for a car accident “He was in my blind spot”?
PVC’s have huge blind spots!
Our 1600kg passenger car has blind spots!

Totally agree. How many have said ‘where did he come from’? or ‘he came out of nowhere Officer’ Actually they were always there ‘we’ just didn’t see them. My wife sitting in her mini, I showed her I could stand on the drivers side about 3-4 feet from her and she couldn’t see me. People rely too much on just mirrors.

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[busby]

Totally agree. How many have said ‘where did he come from’? or ‘he came out of nowhere Officer’ Actually they were always there ‘we’ just didn’t see them. My wife sitting in her mini, I showed her I could stand on the drivers side about 3-4 feet from her and she couldn’t see me. People rely too much on just mirrors.

Exactly,they need to turn their heads..BUSBY.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

What I found annoying on my recent travels was coming up to a roundabout and where we are fairly high up I’m level with the signs on the posts, had to creep forward a few times a bit carefully before I could see what was coming.

 

[TonyEmm]

Totally agree. How many have said ‘where did he come from’? or ‘he came out of nowhere Officer’ Actually they were always there ‘we’ just didn’t see them. My wife sitting in her mini, I showed her I could stand on the drivers side about 3-4 feet from her and she couldn’t see me. People rely too much on just mirrors.

Absolutely agree there…. I’d always been against my kids riding motorbikes as I thought they were dangerous, then at 70, I started M/C training, It’s a shame normal driver training isn‘t half as good!

I passed my full ‘A’ licence at 72 and bought a Honda 650. (Great bike), i learned a lot of technical skills, including weaving a big bike through cones etc, a u turn in a narrow road without putting feet down, but the abiding memory is lifesavers, all drivers should be taught that!
I do them in my car, van and MoHo too!

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[busby]

Blind spots are truly huge, when I was a fleet driver trainer I regularly stood 150 feet behind a lorry and driver couldn’t see me. Also had teacher and 15 kids round mini buses and driver couldn’t see one of them. You are, per mile driven, 130 times more likely to have a collision in reverse and reversing is all about blind spots by its sheer nature. Mirrors by design see blind spots as we don’t have eyes in the back of our head but mirrors don’t see all ‘blind spots’. We all thought stripes on the rear of HGVs were strange at first but now they just register subconsciously and who knows how many lives they’ve saved but undoubtedly they have.

Bit like yellow jackets on cyclists and roadworkers subconsciously give you a jolt,,probably because originally it was Policemen that wore them.BUSBY.

 

[Purple2]

Most people on here are getting the hump with this because we now have to stick gaudy signs on our expensive pride and joy. Not an unreasonable argument and it’s obvious because no one really moans about the Fiamma chevrons on bike covers mostly because we think that it may prevent someone running into the back of our pride and joy and they aren’t stuck on. For the most part these relate to left hand drive large vehicles that want to turn right and most of us have a distinct advantage in that we are more likely to be aware of a pedestrian/cyclist/motorcycle on our offside at right turns.