A Frames in Spain

[Tony Hunt]

Just a warning to anybody that uses A Frames. Friends of ours were stopped on the Motorway outside of Barcelona recently whilst on the way home and fined £100 on the spot for using an A Frame. Apparently new regulations brought in in that part of Spain on the 1st Jan.
Apologies if this is already common knowledge, havent been on the forum for a little while.
Has anybody had the same problem in other european countries ?

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Tony

This issue was discussed a few weeks ago.., apparently there are new towing regulations in Spain that prohibit the use of towing frames .. as usual I can't find the thread.. :Sad:

Jim

 

[Tony Hunt]

Oh well it was nice visiting them. They obviously dont want tourists money.

 

[sersol]

Oh well it was nice visiting them. They obviously dont want tourists money.

They do,they just don't want something on their roads that they consider "unsafe".

 

[Jim]

They do,they just don't want something on their roads that they consider "unsafe"

I have never come across anyone who thought they were "unsafe" but met plenty who thought that they did not meet trailer regulations are were therefore illegal. Millions of miles in Europe and tens of millions in the USA have proved, beyond doubt, that they are safe and convenient.

Sersol, why do the Spanish consider them "unsafe"? Can you point somewhere where I can get the Spanish view on their safety? It would be interesting to see how they have come to that conclusion, if indeed they have.

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[sersol]

Hi Jim no I can't, you will have seen the "wink" at the end of my post. (FUN :Angry
I just imagine that's why the Spanish have taken this measure because they think they are unsafe..........not me I don't give a hoot.
I just thought that most laws were there on a safety purpose. I suppose its I bit like having that red/white square on the old bike rack.
Gary

 

[Parcverger]

A-frames in Spain

Tony, what happened after the fine? Could they continue using the A-frame, or did they have to separate the car? We'd like the info so we can advise those stopping here (we have two rigs with A-frames heading for Spain here at present).

Bob

 

[Jim]

Hi Jim no I can't, you will have seen the "wink" at the end of my post. (FUN :Angry
I just imagine that's why the Spanish have taken this measure because they think they are unsafe..........not me I don't give a hoot.
I just thought that most laws were there on a safety purpose. I suppose its I bit like having that red/white square on the old bike rack.
Gary

Sorry Gary, should have realised that you were just on a wind-up

 

[Tony Hunt]

Tony, what happened after the fine? Could they continue using the A-frame, or did they have to separate the car? We'd like the info so we can advise those stopping here (we have two rigs with A-frames heading for Spain here at present).

Bob

Hello Bob.
Usual problem when the police scarpered afterwards on an emergency call.
Same as happened to me when we arrived at Parc Verger, after a day or two towing the car battery was flat, something to do with brake & side lights running it down. Anyway the police had left them in a highly dangerous spot so they put a tow rope on and started towing it around Barcelona city centre ( got lost in the panic) To cut a long story short, they got the car started eventually and his son drove it just in case, as soon as they got to the french border they hooked up again and drove home vowing not to visit spain again.
I vowed that myself ages ago, I mean what has the place got going for it other than the sunshine in winter. Its a 1000 mile drive on expensive fuel, crime rate is far worse than here, especially muggings and robberies on tourists & the like. In the summer the sun is too hot, lol.. what do people see in the place.
Id much rather tour France and stay at lovely sites like yours Bob.
Happy New year to you and Di and thanks for a wonderful stay last August. I forgot to put money in the wi fi box when I left, my apologies and will make amends next time we come.

 

[Tony Hunt]

Tony, what happened after the fine? Could they continue using the A-frame, or did they have to separate the car? We'd like the info so we can advise those stopping here (we have two rigs with A-frames heading for Spain here at present).

Bob

Bob. Maybe be an idea to advise those people to miss the big cities and their ring roads. Take the smaller main roads and keep their heads down & take a chance. The police in the major city areas are probably on a fund raising trip.
I just wondered if a few have been stopped and fined what are they doing about it when they get home. Is there anything they can do to get their money back I wonder. Several years ago somebody disputed a fine for using an A frame in spain and got their fine refunded by the courts there, wouldnt that have set a precedent.

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[Braunston]

Hi,

Back in 2006 we nearly got stopped around the Barcelona area by what we are sure were bogus police, luckily we made our escape, which makes me wonder if your friend may of been stopped by similar people as from what we could find it apparantly happens quiet a lot around there.

 

[old-mo]

A couple of years ago a couple of friends towng a frames were pulled just after crossing into Spain,, and were warned and told to detach,, luckily both wifes could drive but it spoilt there holiday for a few days, they then took their chances and recoupled and had no more problems,, No fine just warned.. :Sad:

 

[Road Runner]

What amazes me is in the summer when the caravans are out in force its not usual to see one turned over but never seen a toad overturned.

BTW:- I like tugging so not a dig but an observation.

 

[Tony Hunt]

I think if it were me I would write to the Barcelona police to check out wether they were indeed Bogus police. My mates son actually took a photo of the police taking the money off them at which point they went loopy and shouted no photos. He still has the photos on his camera apparently.

 

[theresa]

what do we do now. we are due to take a ar to spain in feb . i cant drive , so do we now leave the car home or take a chance. any advice please :Blush:

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[Braunston]

Hi, Tony

We didn't stop as we weren't happy about the situation but i think i would do as you are suggesting and write to them.

I think if it were me I would write to the Barcelona police to check out wether they were indeed Bogus police. My mates son actually took a photo of the police taking the money off them at which point they went loopy and shouted no photos. He still has the photos on his camera apparently.

 

[old-mo]

what do we do now. we are due to take a ar to spain in feb . i cant drive , so do we now leave the car home or take a chance. any advice please :Blush:

Hi theresa.
I think you are unlikely to get an answer that you would like to hear on this question,, If some say take a chance and go for it, and you do get pulled it will ruin your holiday. and the members suggesting you go for it will feel pretty gutted that you took their advise. (I would).
My only suggestion would be is to hire a trailer, or if you are in the position to store one at home,, Buy one, that way you have covered your back and in the eyes of the Spanish Police are 100%.. And can enjoy your holiday..:thumb:
All the best with whatever choice you make.

Maurice.

 

[Forestboy]

Everyone has to make up their own mind and take responsibility for their actions.

But this would not stop me A Framing for one second these guys were probably bogus anyway hence the reaction to photos and the quick exit. If I did get stopped Jan would drive the car for half an hour and then I'd hook back up or if she couldn't drive we'd park up for an hour then carry on our way.

As for safety we've driven 10's of thousands of miles with a car on tow in the states and never once considered it unsafe. Bearing in mind the yanks attitude to compensation claims I am happy to assume it's very safe as the roads are full of RV's towing cars.

Just my humble opinion :thumb:

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

I agree with Old-mo it is really an impossible question to answer,

I don't know how long you are going for but have you looked into hiring a car as when i did some searching on the internet and you can get some very good deals which may help if you decide not to take you car, what ever you do we wish you well and hope you have a great time

what do we do now. we are due to take a ar to spain in feb . i cant drive , so do we now leave the car home or take a chance. any advice please :Blush:

 

[Road Runner]

what do we do now. we are due to take a ar to spain in feb . i cant drive , so do we now leave the car home or take a chance. any advice please :Blush:

I would go and not let it spoil your holiday.

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[Forestboy]

Even if you do get stopped and fined a 100 euros which in my opinion is highly unlikely its still a damn site cheaper than hiring trailers or cars.

 

[theresa]

think we are going to leave the car home this time , then learn to drive . after geting robbed last year dont want any misshaps this time . thanks for all the advice guys. :Blush:

 

[scotjimland]

what do we do now. we are due to take a ar to spain in feb . i cant drive , so do we now leave the car home or take a chance. any advice please :Blush:

Hi theresa.
I think you are unlikely to get an answer that you would like to hear on this question,, If some say take a chance and go for it, and you do get pulled it will ruin your holiday. and the members suggesting you go for it will feel pretty gutted that you took their advise. (I would).

I agree with Old Mo .. it has to be your decision... the Spanish law isn't in question ..

Link Removed

Under the Spanish Highway code, the towing of motor vehicles is not permitted. However, a motor vehicle may be towed by another provided that the towed vehicle is on a trailer that complies with EU Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE or is accredited to be in compliance with British Standards and provided that the length of the convoy does not exceed 18.75mts (16. 50 if the tractor vehicle is a semi trailer).

The towing of trailers by motorcycles is subject to the following restrictions: the mass of the trailer is not over 50% of that of the tractor vehicle, circulation must be during day time and in good conditions of visibility, speeds are reduced by 10% of those permitted and no person is allowed to travel in the trailer.

The transport of two wheeled bicycles and motorcycles on racks fixed on the top of the vehicle is allowed. The use of a rack secured to the back of a vehicle is allowed provided that the device does not restrict or hinder in any way the vehicle’s lighting and signalling systems, nor affect the visibility of the registration plate or rest on the trailer’s mechanism. The load may not protrude more than 10% of the length of the vehicle (15% if the load is rigid) and a plaque warning of the protruding load must be displayed at the furthest point of the load. When the load protrudes along the entire width of the vehicle, two warning plaques, placed at each end of the load, are required. The load will also be marked by a red light when travelling in the dark or conditions of poor visibility.

We have an A frame, but as Jan doesn't drive being stopped by the Spanish Police and told to un hitch would put us in an impossible situation..

For that reason I won't go back to Spain, and frankly, I won't miss it.. same reasons as Tony cited.. high crime, expensive sites, virtually no aries, unfriendly attitude to motorhomes, etc

During last summer in southern and western France we say literally hundreds of Spanish plated motorhomes ... you have to ask yourself why.. they didn't come for the good weather.. but for the pleasure of driving and touring a country that embraces motorhomes and makes provision for them .. Spain has a lot to learn .

 

[DJP]

This info was supplied to me when I purchased an A Frame from Towtal in Stoke on Trent

The vehicle on tow is for our personal use when the motorcaravan is
parked on a camp site. It will be taken back to the U.K. when we
have completed our holiday.
May we respectfully inform you of the regulations when towing a
car/trailer behind a motorcaravan, in the United Kingdom.
When attached with a fixed towing frame the car is considered to be a
trailer and is subject to trailer regulations covered by the official
Construction and Use Regulations. A number of EEC Directives
apply to U.K. trailer regulations. A car on tow with a fixed towing
device is defined as a steerable multi-axle trailer.
May we ask you to notice the “trailer” is carrying the registration
number of the towing vehicle and also red reflective triangles.
The general practice agreements of the EEC state :
“Provided a vehicle complies with the Construction and Use
Regulations in its country of registrations no modifications have to be
made when the vehicle or vehicle/trailer combination is subsequently​

temporarily imported into another member country

As far as I am aware this still stands.
It is available in multi language format from Link Removed for free download.

 

[scotjimland]

This info was supplied to me when I purchased an A Frame from Towtal in Stoke on Trent

The vehicle on tow is for our personal use when the motorcaravan is
parked on a camp site. It will be taken back to the U.K. when we
have completed our holiday.
May we respectfully inform you of the regulations when towing a
car/trailer behind a motorcaravan, in the United Kingdom.
When attached with a fixed towing frame the car is considered to be a
trailer and is subject to trailer regulations covered by the official
Construction and Use Regulations. A number of EEC Directives
apply to U.K. trailer regulations. A car on tow with a fixed towing
device is defined as a steerable multi-axle trailer.
May we ask you to notice the “trailer” is carrying the registration
number of the towing vehicle and also red reflective triangles.
The general practice agreements of the EEC state :
“Provided a vehicle complies with the Construction and Use
Regulations in its country of registrations no modifications have to be
made when the vehicle or vehicle/trailer combination is subsequently​

temporarily imported into another member country

As far as I am aware this still stands.
It is available in multi language format from Link Removed for free download.

Hi

I think most who have an A frame are aware of this type of document, also supplied by Car A Tow frames..

but does anyone know if it's ever been put to the test.. and more importantly, been accepted by the police ?

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[theresa]

thanks we have that . but are they going to take the time to read it ,IF and when stopped. so many robbing bu--rs over there :Blush:

 

[Wildman]

This info was supplied to me when I purchased an A Frame from Towtal in Stoke on Trent

The vehicle on tow is for our personal use when the motorcaravan is
parked on a camp site. It will be taken back to the U.K. when we
have completed our holiday.
May we respectfully inform you of the regulations when towing a
car/trailer behind a motorcaravan, in the United Kingdom.
When attached with a fixed towing frame the car is considered to be a
trailer and is subject to trailer regulations covered by the official
Construction and Use Regulations. A number of EEC Directives
apply to U.K. trailer regulations. A car on tow with a fixed towing
device is defined as a steerable multi-axle trailer.
May we ask you to notice the “trailer” is carrying the registration
number of the towing vehicle and also red reflective triangles.
The general practice agreements of the EEC state :
“Provided a vehicle complies with the Construction and Use
Regulations in its country of registrations no modifications have to be
made when the vehicle or vehicle/trailer combination is subsequently​

temporarily imported into another member country

As far as I am aware this still stands.
It is available in multi language format from Link Removed for free download.

No mention is made of braking on all wheels and controlled reversing, both conditions of which would have to apply for it to be legal, we all know that the controlled reversing part is almost impossible to achieve and therefor it is technically illegal anyway, not that most of us would stop towing. It seems to me the document is merely a selling aid on the part of towtal. It is in no way a legal document. So be aware of that.

 

[frogijock]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was under the impression that if it was legal to use an A frame in your home country (E.U. member countries) then it could be used in all other E.U. countries, ofcourse as usual Spain make the rules as they go along. :thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was under the impression that if it was legal to use an A frame in your home country (E.U. member countries) then it could be used in all other E.U. countries, ofcourse as usual Spain make the rules as they go along. :thumb:

This thread isn't about the legality here or in Spain but to inform what has happened to someone while towing with a frame in Spain..

It's then up to the individual to decide for themselves.. irrespective of EU law.

If you Google 'A Frame and Towing ' you will get legions of threads and posts in dozens of forums about the legalities.

 

[olley]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was under the impression that if it was legal to use an A frame in your home country (E.U. member countries) then it could be used in all other E.U. countries, ofcourse as usual Spain make the rules as they go along. :thumb:

Hi I think you will find that's incorrect, I mean for a start its legal to drive on the left over here, but try that in most of Europe. Then roundabouts, we give way to traffic on the roundabout, in some EU countries traffic on the roundabout gives way to traffic entering. Theirs loads of rules which are different to ours, but which we still have to obey on end up fined or worse.

I think wildman's right, its just a selling aid.

Olley

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