What is this payload thing? (1 Viewer)

[70321]

and why is it so important? (I told you it should be my husband asking these questions!) So a 3500kg van and then I keep hearing about payload. What do we have to be careful about? Thanks

 

[Dazza 6863]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

 

[Phill D]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

dont know why its been registered like that, the original registration documents by the dealer will have given the original weights.
out of interest a vehicle with an unladen weight of over 3050kgs is subject to lower speed limits when off motorways, i.e. 60mph on dual, 50mph on other roads unless speed limit is less.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

They make it up as they go along.
I reckon they took both axle max Weight and deducted the mass in service to get to 600kg.
Of course, the axles always add up to more than the gross weight.
Very convenient if I'm right.

 

[Boris7]

Drive it the local weighbridge - they will often do it for free. Then check your V5 and see what that particular vehicles maximum weight is. The difference between the two figures will be your payload or how much you can carry - including passengers and pets - and the kitchen sink.
It's very often 3500 Kg maximum

This is pretty much on the money, if your unsure then tell the salesman you want to drive to a weigh bridge, once there kick the salesman out and you both sit in the van while it’s weighed, in the seats you would normally sit in while driving)

They will give you a ticket showing the vehicles weight with you both in it, estimate the fuel level and tank size and add 1kg for each litre that you COULD ADD to the fuel tank, this will give you a base weight, subtract this from the g.v.w. on the V5.

the difference is the amount of weight you can add to the vehicle (sometimes called payload, but since this isn’t a commercial no-one paying you so it’s actually free weight)

Now find out what you want to put in the MH - list everything clothes, pets, cameras, food, etc and then get them together and weigh them, then consider if you need to run with water tanks full, if so add the number of litres of water at the rate of 1kg per litre.

Now you’ll have an idea of your actual gross vehicle weight, it’s wont be 100% accurate but it’s a good guide.

If you can get the salesman to take you to a dynamic weigh bridge then do so, this will tell you how much weight is on each axle ( again, kick the salesman out and have you both in the sits you would normally sit in while driving ) check the V5 and the fuel tank position, then estimate the effect the fuel load would have per axle, then do as above.

If the pay load or free weight is low compared to the weight of ALL the items you wish to carry, then you need to consider if this is the right Motorhome for you, but also remember you will not have an issue unless vosa or the a Police pull you over and take you to a weight bridge, they then will not take action unless you are more than 5% overloaded.

The chances of being pulled are slim, but real so you need to consider this, if the Motorhome looks like it’s dropped when loaded, think about what you’ve put in, a 100liter water tank is great, but heavy so maybe drive to site empty and then fill up (also better on fuel) Maybe drive with no food and shop near site, take less stuff in general. Plastic plates instead of China, plastic glasses, etc.....

 

[Minxy]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

The actual weights used when registering it will have been taken off the COC from the manufacturer for YOUR own vehicle, not the brochure weights which are just a 'general' weight for those MH models. Did your MH have an additional 'pack' with it when made by the manufacturer such as 'media', 'comfort' or an engine upgrade, awning etc before it was delivered to the dealer? If it is put on by the manufacturer I believe the have to include it in the 'ex-factory' weight figure (ie mass in service) so that may be why your's is different to the brochure figure for a 'standard' non-accessorised MH.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[RandallC]

In some respects it doesn't matter about MIRO the ones that matter are the front and rear axle loads and the MAM. Don't forget gross train weight if towing

If your over the plated weights by (as been suggested above) 5% your likely to fined. Led to believe in parts of Europe if caught you unload stuff until your weight is ok and what's left on the roadside is a bonus for the inspection team. May or may not be true.

Folks think they won't be caught but have passed many VOSA weight check sites and missed by luck a few in France. Had no real concerns but you never know unless weighed. (had a few cases of wine on board so was mybe close)

Has anyone knowledge of post accident investigation resulting in denied claim due to overloading?

 

[Dazza 6863]

The actual weights used when registering it will have been taken off the COC from the manufacturer for YOUR own vehicle, not the brochure weights which are just a 'general' weight for those MH models. Did your MH have an additional 'pack' with it when made by the manufacturer such as 'media', 'comfort' or an engine upgrade, awning etc before it was delivered to the dealer? If it is put on by the manufacturer I believe the have to include it in the 'ex-factory' weight figure (ie mass in service) so that may be why your's is different to the brochure figure for a 'standard' non-accessorised MH.

The brochure with 600kg payload in it is for this van, it is a dealer special, with added extras, ie solar panel, leisure battery, wind out awning, alloy wheels, winter pack summer pack, etc, with upgraded trim.
we took it to the weighbridge loaded with 60 kg of food and accessories, water tank full 100-liters fuel tank full 60-liters boiler carries 12 liters and 1x 11 1x 6 kg gas bottles both full and i fitted a spare wheel and carrier 30kg, then both of us 130kg. The front axle weight was 1820kg and back axle 1640kg leaving 40kg, still baffled.. lol

 

[mitzimad]

If your over the plated weights by (as been suggested above) 5% your likely to fined. Led to believe in parts of Europe if caught you unload stuff until your weight is ok and what's left on the roadside is a bonus for the inspection team. May or may not be true.

in that case the last thing i would dump would be the contents of the thetford over everything else

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

The brochure with 600kg payload in it is for this van, it is a dealer special, with added extras, ie solar panel, leisure battery, wind out awning, alloy wheels, winter pack summer pack, etc, with upgraded trim.
we took it to the weighbridge loaded with 60 kg of food and accessories, water tank full 100-liters fuel tank full 60-liters boiler carries 12 liters and 1x 11 1x 6 kg gas bottles both full and i fitted a spare wheel and carrier 30kg, then both of us 130kg. The front axle weight was 1820kg and back axle 1640kg leaving 40kg, still baffled.. lol

In which case it looks like the usual manufacturer 'massaging' the published weight again buy using their +/-5% margin on weights allowance.

 

[thebriars]

You have to be careful to see what your driving licence allows you to drive. Depending on when you passed your test you may legally only be able to drive a fully loaded motorhome up to 3500kg. If it is plated above this and you don't have the appropriate licence, then you won't be insured either. There are different driving restrictions for vans over 3500kg.

 

[Pausim]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

They lied. This year the MIRO in the brochure is 2924kg, they are allowed 5% which is 147kg. Add the two together you get 3089kg, so the 3060kg MIRO shown on your V5 is within the limit leaving you with a 440kg payload.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[joka250]

You have to be careful to see what your driving licence allows you to drive. Depending on when you passed your test you may legally only be able to drive a fully loaded motorhome up to 3500kg. If it is plated above this and you don't have the appropriate licence, then you won't be insured either. There are different driving restrictions for vans over 3500kg.

Wondered when that would be mentioned, very well done. I would add if o p is nearing 70 years old it's a good idea to be aware of medical requirements on renewal.

 

[Bessy765]

If you are on 215/70/r15 tyres and rated at 3500 or 3700 with the paper upgrade. To get to 3850 kg with a rear axle rating of 2240 kg you need to fit a semi air kit and update the tyres to 225/70/r15

 

[peterc10]

Your V5

It should show

Max permissible mass and Mass in service.

Payload is the difference.

You will also have a plate in your engine compartment or door opening from the converter detailng these and the max axle weights per axle.

"Mass in service" is often not filled in or is simply wrong. For example, according to my V5 my mass in service is the same as the Maximum permissible mass, so allegedly I have no payload at all! Even if somebody tries to fill it in correctly from the figures given by the converter, it is usually wildly optimistic (i.e. too low) and will ignore all the extras fitted on the vehicle. Mass in service is not shown on the plate attached to your vehicle.

The only accurate way to know what payload you have is to weigh the motorhome empty on a weighbridge. The difference between that and your Maximum Permissible Mass is the the maximum weight of the stuff you can put in your motorhome, including people.

Once you have loaded up everything and everybody you will take in your motorhome take it to the weighbridge again and weigh each axle and the total, to make sure that all are at or below their plated maximum.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Rds559]

Our Bailey Autograph 75-2 as a payload of 315kg so get the mrs, dog And food for all, your over weight without putting all other things you need

 

[TonyEmm]

Tech spec says MAM = 3500, MIRO quoted at 3125. But we want an awning, aircon (for the dog when in hot climes while we do non dog friendly things) Gaslow, solar panel.
..........
Suddenly realised that the 3125kg MIRO we'd seen in the brochure is WITHOUT any dealer factory fitted items or Buyer specified dealer fitted accessories.
.........
We thought the extras we wanted fitted to the van by the dealer would add say 100kg so looking at the 3500-(3125 +100) = 275kg payload. Nowhere near enough. Dealer said we can re-plate the van to 3850kg.
OK we said that leaves us circa 625Kg of payload.........
At plated MAM it was 50 kg under. At re-plated weight there would be 400kg of payload. BUT 1/2 tank fuel, NO water, No Bedding No Passengers, No food, No anything.
..........
To make matters worse the front axle only had 120kg of payload left, when you fill the fuel tank and the adblue, invite the better half and her handbag & of course the dog to accompany you, there is no payload left for anything else.
.........
Rejected it as unfit for purpose.

Now think a very good idea to get a weighbridge ticket before parting with any cash

A salutary lesson for all!

Not all motorhomes can be replated upwards, it would depend on the original chassis and conversions.....
Not all drivers can drive a replated vehicle! 3850kg needs a C1 licence.

IMHO, published figures should be treated like fuel consumption claims, Some are a figment of the imagination!

Hopefully, in your case you paid your deposit by credit card. If so, you will more than likely be able to claim from the CC company under section 75 of the consumer credit act, 1974. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

I have to say that never seems fair to the CC card company but I guess they have recourse against the supplier.

 

[Rodneyplonker]

I believe that, you can only claim on your credit card for goods costing over £100 - up to a maximum of £30,000! Outside of those figures you will not be covered, I'm afraid! I checked this with my bank last week.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tony50]

We have a 4400Kgs Motorhome , weighed it with just me and wife empty got overall weight , front axle weight and rear axle weight ( axle weight means with us sitting in it the weight of the body engine gearbox etc. bearing down say as example front axle, ) then do same for rear axle, after loading with what we want in it, we weighed it again overall weight was just under , front axle weight was just under weight, but, rear axle was 20 Kgs over ( It's an Offence) , by shifting stuff about we got it right. We have Sat. Dome , 2 Solar panels , 2 leisure batteries, wind out Awning, Sunroom , chairs table carpet, Ground sheets , food , bed linen, clothes ,etc. etc. a 3500Kgs or 3850 Kgs would not work for us !!! Like speed Limits Digital Police checks are now more accurate !!!

 

[TonyEmm]

I believe that, you can only claim on your credit card for goods costing over £100 - up to a maximum of £30,000! Outside of those figures you will not be covered, I'm afraid! I checked this with my bank last week.

that’s true but the OP said he was hoping to get his deposit back.... most likely more than £100 and hopefully, less than £30,000! It’s quite a wide scope.....?

 

[Rodneyplonker]

Yes, agree if only deposit paid.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MGSMerc.]

Hi, Need to check if the deposit paid is not part of an invoice for the full amount which is more than £30,000. I do not believe the Credit Card covers this.

 

[Rodneyplonker]

That was what I understood when speaking to bank security before making a large purchase recently although, I did get conflicting advice from one of the bank staff before asking to be put through to security?

 

[Minxy]

I believe that, you can only claim on your credit card for goods costing over £100 - up to a maximum of £30,000! Outside of those figures you will not be covered, I'm afraid! I checked this with my bank last week.

that’s true but the OP said he was hoping to get his deposit back.... most likely more than £100 and hopefully, less than £30,000! It’s quite a wide scope.....?

Yes, agree if only deposit paid.

AFAIK the CC regs won't help as the deposit was only part of the whole cost which will have been over £30,000, it doesn't make any difference even if the deposit was between £100 and £30,000 I'm afraid. The Sale of Goods act might be able to be brought to bear though, professional advice needed really.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lazyboy]

I would suggest not fit for purpose and it has been sold incorrectly by the salesman/woman being economical with the truth.
They should give the deposit back as you cannot use the van as intended and I don't believe any court would disagree. You could always say "caveat emptor" but sales people have a responsibility to understand the products they are selling and give facts and I believe they could be held responsible in law under "product liability" if any accidents occur in the future. It is about time someone took manufacturers and dealers to task. This is the only industry (as far as I know) where customers are allowed to buy products which will be illegal as soon as they go on the road and no one points this detail out. Imagine if it was the USA!

 

[Don Campbell]

I believe the Transport Ministry recently said that if a van is electric it could be rated at 4000kgs and driven on a B licence. Apparently it's to make allowance for the battery weights. So if it's OK to make an allowance for battery weights why can't all campervans be rated at 4000kgs and driven on a B licence to make allowance for water tanks, gas tanks etc etc? Let's have all the experts views on this please.

 

[TonyEmm]

I believe the Transport Ministry recently said that if a van is electric it could be rated at 4000kgs and driven on a B licence. Apparently it's to make allowance for the battery weights. So if it's OK to make an allowance for battery weights why can't all campervans be rated at 4000kgs and driven on a B licence to make allowance for water tanks, gas tanks etc etc? Let's have all the experts views on this please.

There is currently no such allowance according to https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

HOWEVER! (isn’t there always a but or however?)
according to https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2018/alternative-fuel-derogation/ you are correct, the allowance has actually been increased to 4250kgs.

With ranges of 60 to 80 miles though, I think it might be a while before we see an all electric MOTORHOME of any size!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Momac]

Our MH is plated at 3300kg. (Bessacarr E410 2010) How do we go about changing it to 3500kg? Would it need any modifications? We would just like the extra payload for the ebikes.

 

[TonyEmm]

Can anyone help me understand this?
When we purchased our van the V5 stated mass in service 3060kg giving me 440kg payload, yet
the sales brochure advertises a payload of 600kg (and still does on this years model) the same as the salesman told us and the same figures are on the swift website! I'm still baffled.

Sales brochures are as reliable as quoted fuel consumption, they are fiction!
put it on a weighbridge, That way you’ll know for sure.

 

[Revolvor]

My V5 makes no mention of weight - just PLG. Presumably, I just take note of the weight plate, under the bonnet?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TonyEmm]

The front axle weight was 1820kg and back axle 1640kg leaving 40kg, still baffled.. lol

The combined axle weights do not equate to MIRO. They should always be greater to allow for some flexibility in loading.