Violation Notice - Speeding (2 Viewers)

[Lofty1]

This is the site to check if it is a scam

 

[Lenny HB]

Feel sorry for all affected, as it would seem the margins/tolerances in some cases on the continent are pretty tight,and better monitored unlike here in the UK.

It's only the UK that has tolerances, do 71 in a 70 kmh limit in France and you are nicked.
UK is probably to lenant surely if you break the speed limit you are still breaking regardless of it being 1 mph or 7mph.

The old 90kmh wasn't too bad but I found 80kmh too difficult without cruise control so I opted to 'pre-pay' my inevitable fines by going through France on the toll routes, which I'm sure was half the idea.

Always been 80 for over 3500kg so nothing has changed for us, I'm OK with it.

 

[Camdoon]

It's only the UK that has tolerances, do 71 in a 70 kmh limit in France and you are nicked.
UK is probably to lenant surely if you break the speed limit you are still breaking regardless of it being 1 mph or 7mph.


Always been 80 for over 3500kg so nothing has changed for us, I'm OK with it.

Difficult not to be caught from time-to-time. Not worth getting over concerned about but certainly not into the 'speed does not kill' mind set. Post 2000 I have found that one set of points drops off my licence then I get caught again, so every 4-5 years. Last time was in 2012 so doing better than my usual average - slowing down in my old age.

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[Minxy]

Cruise should prevent speeding fines

Don't rely on it! If you have a Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen based motorhome/PVC whilst the cruise will pretty much hold the speed on the flat, or even uphill, but NOT going downhill so you will gather speed as you descend, therefore going over the speed limit can be quite easy - we are aware of this so hubby 'takes charge' if necessary using the brakes.

The one we had on our Ford based Chausson used engine braking to keep your speed to the cruise limit set when going down hill.

 

[suavecarve]

It's only the UK that has tolerances, do 71 in a 70 kmh limit in France and you are nicked.
UK is probably to lenant surely if you break the speed limit you are still breaking regardless of it being 1 mph or 7mph..

The original theory, if i remember correctly, is that your speedometer was allowed not to be accurate, and the old equipment was not as accurate as the speed of light from a laser which is a constant.

To ensure that all speeding offences were proven "Beyond all reasonable doubt" ACPO guidelines were that 10% + 2 mph should be reached before a ticket. These are/were guidelines and not bothered about too much if the attitude test was failed. (Obviously the attitude never existed because that would be unfair to persons who met a certain criteria (rsoles))

I read recently that the new average cameras over the A3 at Guildford by the A31 junction, which go live this month, are set to ticket at 51 MPH. Perhaps just a rumour, perhaps fact, perhaps i need to slow down there every day til i find out (without getting a ticket).

Even more interesting for people who go along that road is the Hindhead tunnel. They have smart signs within the tunnel to drop the speed down to 40mph on the dual carriageway tunnel. Unfortunately those signs do not conform with the Highway Code so they are unenforceable. Probably good advice to take note of them though.

 

[TinaLes]

Dont know whether its true or false, but I thought that due to the inaccuracy of both car/van speedo's & police speed detection devices, I was always told that there was a tolerance of 10% plus 3MPH in the UK for speeding fines i.e. 10% of 30MPH is 3 +3 = 36MPH. You would not (normally) get nicked if at 36MPH or less.
TinaL got her only speeding fine back in 2006 in Reading Berkshire for doing 36 in a 30 is a good example.
I for one have never heard of anyone getting nicked on a UK motorway for doing up to 80MPH, this may have changed nowadays with the implementation of the averaged speed cameras.

I do of course realise as @Lenny HB says that anything over the actual signed speed limit is officially speeding, however I feel that even the French should/could have a small margin of tolerance before they issue tickets.

Even I had to laugh though when I was adhering to the 40MPH speed limit, and a biker with an illegal small number plate on rear, overtook me just after the speed camera probably doing 55+, he turned around held his arm up showing 2 fingers to the camera as it flashed him.
Could this be a start of the bikers revolution against safety cameras, also the fact that many Bikers dont feel that speeding laws are applicable to them, just follow one long enough, they just cant help itWrooom!
Les

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[Barclaybasher]

My speedo reads about 7% fast according to my satnav.....might have saved me a few tickets

 

[David and Sally]

Dont know whether its true or false, but I thought that due to the inaccuracy of both car/van speedo's & police speed detection devices, I was always told that there was a tolerance of 10% plus 3MPH in the UK for speeding fines i.e. 10% of 30MPH is 3 +3 = 36MPH. You would not (normally) get nicked if at 36MPH or less.


Could this be a start of the bikers revolution against safety cameras, also the fact that many Bikers dont feel that speeding laws are applicable to them, just follow one long enough, they just cant help itWrooom!
Les

The old ACPO guidelines was tolerance of 10% + 2mph so 36 would be a ticket, 35 not. These are only guidelines so some forces ticket at less depending on how short of cash they are. In some forces there is zero tolerance.

An average speedo is allowed to slightly over-read but not under-read. 5% springs to mind.

Don't lump all bikers together. I try really hard to obey limits. There are bikers who take the mickey as are there car drivers, taxi drivers, lorry drivers etc but that does not mean they ALL fit the same catagory. It would be like me saying all BMW and Audi drivers are the worst offenders - which of course they are

 

[Lenny HB]

Dont know whether its true or false, but I thought that due to the inaccuracy of both car/van speedo's & police speed detection devices, I was

The spec for a Speedo is -0/+10%+6kmh for the life of the vehicle so it should never underead.

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[nicholsong]

M/Cs do not have to worry about forward facing cameras - no numberplate, and cannot be recognised under a visor.

 

[TinaLes]

M/Cs do not have to worry about forward facing cameras - no numberplate, and cannot be recognised under a visor.

So True, but scratching my head to remember correctly, didn't motorbikes years ago have front number plates?, albeit facing sideways. I think my dads AJS had one on top of the front mudguard, or am I away with the fairy's, as he used to say
Les

 

[David and Sally]

Yes, they were mounted on the front mudguard ready to cut up a pedestrian who dared jump out in front

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[nicholsong]

Yes, they were mounted on the front mudguard ready to cut up a pedestrian who dared jump out in front

Correct. That is why they were removed.

 

[Phill D]

the nice man on my speed awareness course some 15 months ago now...

said guidelines are 10% + 1 mph... as most speedos are inaccurate. But 1mph over is breaking the law no matter what the guidelines are ad an offense that can be prosecuted.

he also said that most speedos are fast reading i.e. speedo show 30 but actual speed is probably 27 / 28mph. that stops us all from citing the manufacturers when we get booked.
however that means if you get booked as ( i did ) for 34 in a 30 limit the speedo would have probably been showing 36 - 38 mph.
if you were looking at it..

 

[gus-lopez]

Isn't there a time limit on when these things can be issued? Six months is ludicrous!

Yes 12 months from date of the offence.
The rules apply the same to all EU countries including the UK who don't bother as they specifically require the offender to be named & everyone else just fines the registered keeper.

I believe one year!!!

Only the French could be that ignorant. In the UK it's 14 days for an NIP I think

Yes for locals. The UK can use the cross border directive if they wanted.

I thought you get points now as well............could be wrong! Just looke dit seems that in France its the vehicles owner rather than driver who has to pay so presumably no points as no one to apply them to.

No points for foreigners .

No it specifically says to write back and tell them if you weren't the driver. Don't want to end up like a Peterborough MP
I am fairly certain that the French deduct points while we add them which would be annoying as I do not have any UK points
Paid up as 45 Euros appeared a bargain

They do if it is a national I believe.
I think the French system is the same as here with limits that are fines only & points deducted only if over the upper amount but still wouldn't apply to a foreigner.

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[nicholsong]

In France, and other countries, there is often a 70kph limit for about 2-300m when approaching a side-road junction.

I have not seen any camers at these spots. Are there any?

Has anyone been fined for exceeding 70kph there?

Geoff

 

[bladerunner]

A friend has just posted that in the past 4 DAYS he has received 4 notices of speeding in France.
He has driven an english reg car for the past 6 years with no ticket.
One was for 99 in a 90kph, and another for 91!!
Clearly they don't want UK tourist money!

 

[gus-lopez]

A friend has just posted that in the past 4 DAYS he has received 4 notices of speeding in France.
He has driven an english reg car for the past 6 years with no ticket.
One was for 99 in a 90kph, and another for 91!!
Clearly they don't want UK tourist money!

& @PORKSTER has just started a thread re; the 2 fines he has just received.
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/couple-of-french-letters.193599/

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[David and Sally]

Theyb are getting the fines out pre-Brexit. Must be working overtime to look for UK reg numbers.

Barstewards!!

 

[suavecarve]

Dont know whether its true or false, but I thought that due to the inaccuracy of both car/van speedo's & police speed detection devices, I was always told that there was a tolerance of 10% plus 3MPH in the UK for speeding fines i.e. 10% of 30MPH is 3 +3 = 36MPH. You would not (normally) get nicked if at 36MPH or less.
TinaL got her only speeding fine back in 2006 in Reading Berkshire for doing 36 in a 30 is a good example.
I for one have never heard of anyone getting nicked on a UK motorway for doing up to 80MPH, this may have changed nowadays with the implementation of the averaged speed cameras.

I do of course realise as @Lenny HB says that anything over the actual signed speed limit is officially speeding, however I feel that even the French should/could have a small margin of tolerance before they issue tickets.

Even I had to laugh though when I was adhering to the 40MPH speed limit, and a biker with an illegal small number plate on rear, overtook me just after the speed camera probably doing 55+, he turned around held his arm up showing 2 fingers to the camera as it flashed him.
Could this be a start of the bikers revolution against safety cameras, also the fact that many Bikers dont feel that speeding laws are applicable to them, just follow one long enough, they just cant help itWrooom!
Les

Again i am speaking from memory and not greatly absolutely factual however different forces had different tolerant levels. I remember surrey was 10 per cent plus 2 and hampshire was 10 per cent plus 3 at one stage. But all of them are guidelines. If you are doing 31 mph in a 30 you are breaking the law. Similarly drink driving is/was 35 but nobody (unless you are a police officer) gets charged unless you are over 40, and it used to be that you had the option of replacing your test with blood or urine if you were between 40 and 50

 

[Lot lover]

Responsibility for speeding fines should rest with the owner/registered keeper. Then up to him/her/it to obtain reimbursement from the driver if necessary.

We have been away from home since early January so I hope that there are no unpleasant letters awaiting my return or non-payment may lead to my being deported.

Cannot see cruise control helping much on non-autoroutes here as speed limits go up and down like a sexworker's underwear.

BTW when did the word "prostitute" become infra dig as JRMmight say.

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[chaser]

suddenly seems to be a lot about , does anyone know if there are as many being issued to french drivers?

 

[JockandRita]

We have been away from home since early January so I hope that there are no unpleasant letters awaiting my return or non-payment may lead to my being deported.

You and me both. We've been away a bit longer, though my caretaker neighbour has been checking for french letters arriving on our doormat. Nothing as yet............thankfully.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[drago35uk]

Definitive answer re France is 5km leniency.

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[Whitebirdyman]

What happens in this country if you are caught speeding somewhere here and don't go home for months and the letter is on the mat? They must realise you possibly didn't get the summons because you were caught a long way from home (in this country though), please?

In that case, in England, if you later found out, you would phone the local court and arrange to go in to make a statutory declaration, effectively saying you knew nothing about it. They would then re-open the case as though you had just found out about it. There is a time limit from when you did discover you had been fined in absence, so you do have to move promptly at that point.

 

[robnchris]

M/Cs do not have to worry about forward facing cameras - no numberplate, and cannot be recognised under a visor.

Hence why a lot of cameras are now positioned to take the photo from behind. grrrrr.

 

[David and Sally]

Attached is Ride magazine's solicitor's advice

Since posing the question I've found a letter to 'Ride Magazine' with a question answered by Andrew Dalton from Dalton White Motorcycle Solicitors, their legal advice contributor. Full question and answer below...

"I have just come back from a ten-day riding break in Spain, which I can highly recommend – Malaga has some fantastic roads. But I have come home to a nasty souvenir, a €50 fine for speeding.

I have clearly been caught in a radar trap. I have heard so much conflicting information from different people that I am unsure what to do with it.

Lots of people have told me that I can simply ignore it, because the Spanish police cannot do anything within the UK jurisdiction. Other people have said pay it just to avoid any hassle – and my wife is convinced that if I ever set foot in mainland Europe again I will be carted off to jail if I don’t pay. Also, once we Brexit, will these fines have any impact at all? I am planning on going back to Andaiucia next year. Will Brexit make it more difficult?

Answer

Pay it! Now that I have told you to pay it, pay it as soon as practicable. You will not be locked up if you go to Spain but your wife has the right idea, albeit dramatically. It has entered biking folklore that you can simply ignore foreign tickets: you can’t; or at least you can’t ignore tickets issued in the European Union, while we remain in the EU.

By an EU-wide agreement a local fine, if unchallenged, becomes payable, if it isn’t paid, the fine is sent on to the local agency – in this case, the DVLA – which will deploy its enforcement officers, who are usually Magistrates’ Courts Officers. The longer that you leave it, the more steps are taken end in the worst case that I have seen, a €100 fine escalated up to just shy of £1000 – so pay your €50. On the positive side, no points go on your licence.

As to what happens after Brexit, I cannot tell you, A ‘crash-out’ will probably mean no fines, as they are enforceable under an EU treaty. While this may sound like you’ll be able to tear across Europe without worrying about fines, many European police forces have the power to seize a foreign vehicle for even minor traffic infringements and without a method of enforcing fines on a UK driver, they are more likely to use that power.

If we have a Brexit with a ‘run-off period, I would hope for at least a couple of years of things staying as they are with mutual recognition of licences and insurance and also, mutual recognition of fines. However, this is by no means certain. I really would not like to speculate how a no-deal Brexit would impact on motorcyclists traveling to the EU, but there is a pretty clear fall-back position; the 1968 Vienna Convention. Riding your own bike in Spain will certainly be possible under this, which was used before the EU and governs non-EU traffic in the EU. However, we might need separate insurance and potentially an international driving permit.

But the shape of any rules will be outside of the UK government’s power if there’s a crash-out Brexit; it will be up to the EU whether it accepts UK licences (it should as it’s currently a Euro licence); but I think insurance will require a Green Card for us in Europe (and for EU drivers coming to the UK). It will be more of a hassle to get to the EU by bike but it won’t be impossible. However, Germany and Portugal are not parties to the 1968 Convention, so I would avoid travel on your own bike there until things are clearer.

If things go horribly pear-shaped, we may be required to buy local insurance on some borders. This is what happens upon entering Morocco (a member of the 1968 Convention) if you do not have pre-existing cover for Morocco but it is not terribly expensive. How good the insurance is, I have never tested. One thing to ponder; my current insurance certificate insures me right across the EU including about four months post-Brexit so I am not sure if the insurers have actually considered the impact of a crash-out, or hard, Brexit.

Andrew Dalton

RiDE Magazine November 2018"

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[gus-lopez]

Responsibility for speeding fines should rest with the owner/registered keeper. Then up to him/her/it to obtain reimbursement from the driver if necessary.

Yes but unfortunately the UK wish to impose points on the driver so will never be able to use the system.Everyone else just uses it as a money earner.The UK wants to do that & ban you from driving.

 

[Pete5996]

It's only the UK that has tolerances, do 71 in a 70 kmh limit in France and you are nicked.
UK is probably to lenant surely if you break the speed limit you are still breaking regardless of it being 1 mph or 7mph.

Not strictly true, although it may seem like it....

The French system allows up to 3kph above the legal speed limit before a fine may be imposed but 5kph is deducted from the detected speed to reach the determined speed of the vehicle for prosecution purposes. Thus an example I saw somewhere today for speeding in a 70kph limit showed the determined speed to be 78kph. The recorded speed was 83kph, which one has to admit is speeding in the eyes of the law. It's worth remembering that 5kph is only 3mph, so there's little to play with - and there's no question that the French don't allow the latitude enjoyed in the UK.

Given that something between 60-70% of cameras have been destroyed or put out of action by the GJ's, with a bill of about half a million euros to fix them, coupled with the ongoing loss of revenue, it wouldn't surprise me that someone in government has directed that harvesting rates need to be increased, perhaps?

 

[JaG]

Glenn just got one this morning. 78kph in a 70 zone last September.

I hope I was not following you at the time.

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