Timing belt change diy

[210ians]

Hi all
new to this forum so my have all ready had this question before but do you need any special tools to do the timing belt change

Ian

 

[treetops1]

just a spanner for tensioner .before slackening off I allways mark the belt and the and wheels with white felt or paint ,then take care not to move anything ,transfer paint marks onto new belt check they marry up with old ,fit new belt with care ,retighten tension .I have done this many times over the years ,I have had to adjust the timing once,but if not sure I do not think it would cost too much at a local garage to have them do it .just bear in mind if you do cock it up and damage the engine it will cost you a lot of money.Enjoy lol

 

[210ians]

Thanks for quick reply can you also say do you replace water pump every time you do the belt or every 2nd time
Treetops 1

 

[Lofty1]

If it is a fiat you can get a locking kit of e bay for around £20

 

[Lenny HB]

Might get more response if you said what engine.

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[210ians]

Yes it,s a fiat 2.8jtd 2004 only got 19,500 miles from new 6 berth but got no history with MH so going to do to be on safe side
Lofty 1

 

[MisterB]

Good idea to change it ...

 

[pappajohn]

Lock pin kit for crank & camshaft....one tooth out can be catastrophic.
Torque wrench capable of at least 280lbft for crankshaft pulley nut.....its bloody tight and needs to be.
If the water pump is cam belt driven change it when you change the belt. You'll only have to do it shortly afterwards otherwise.
False economy not to.
Not all pumps are cambelt driven.
Buy a full cambelt kit, not just a belt. The tensioner will be weakened and idler pulley bearings worn.

 

[DavidG58]

If you need to ask about tools I would say don't do it, but I don't have anywhere near enough skill to even try

What I will add though is back in 1998, Vauxhall insisted mid way through a service that my Omega needed a cam belt at 36,000 miles and only just over 12 months old, then announced they didn't have one in stock

They said if I drove it away it would be at my risk luckily I had a courtesy car which they let me keep

2 days later picked it up and the following day had to be recovered from the M62, turned out (or so they said) a tensioner had seized, but so had my engine Vauxhall messed around for a week, then bought the car back off me at a very good price as it needed a £6K engine and a minimum 1 month to resolve

I know main dealers get a lot of stick but at least if / when it goes wrong they have very little wriggle room, just contemplating this job would terrify me, I do also now favour vehicles with timing chains

 

[Richard n Ann]

Does the Ford 2.2 puma diesel engine use a chain?

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[pappajohn]

Does the Ford 2.2 puma diesel engine use a chain?

Don't take it as gospel but I think it does.

 

[Spanner]

Don't take it as gospel but I think it does.

Yes definitely

 

[PP Bear]

Hi all
new to this forum so my have all ready had this question before but do you need any special tools to do the timing belt change

Ian

Changed mine on Saturday.
No special tools required.
Don't touch the waterpump at 19500 and it's not driven by the belt.
Straight forward job, but at 200Nm the crank nut is tight (normal threaded bolt).
I removed top engine mounting and lowered the engine, as it makes it much easier to remove auxiliary belt, you can then change this too.
Just time it up and the rest is easy.
Good luck.

 

[Two on Tour]

Slice the whole of the timing belt in half along it's length and then remove the outer half, then slid the new belt on up to the old half of the belt left on then cut and remove the old half and push the new belt into place. Doing it this way you will not loose the belt timing nor do you need to but a cam shaft locking tool.

 

[wfdTamar]

Ian, I'll be doing my 2002 2.8 JTD in May/June. It has only 33,000 miles, but 6 years since the belt was done. From my reading you need to lock the flywheel somehow so you can undo & redo that huge 36mm bolt (200Nm). I've seen conflicting advice about how this is done depending on exactly which engine and/or year it is. Some say there's an 8mm hole you slide an 8mm rod into that engages the flywheel teeth. Another bloke couldn't find that hole, so made himself a lock that bolts on where the starter motor is (after removing it).

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/218539-2-8-jtd-timing-belt-replacement-3.html

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/warning-cam-belt-fiat-ducato-2-8-jtd-must-read.13521/

Apparently access is a right sod, particularly in an A-class and if there's air con. I intend doing the waterpump as generally with timing belts doing the timing belt gets you so far toward that job you might as well do it, but again, access for that is supposed to be really tricky. Why they design these things so badly I do not know.

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[PP Bear]

Slice the whole of the timing belt in half along it's length and then remove the outer half, then slid the new belt on up to the old half of the belt left on then cut and remove the old half and push the new belt into place. Doing it this way you will not loose the belt timing nor do you need to but a cam shaft locking tool.

View attachment 294116

That’s a good tip, but will only see the belt getting changed and not the idlers and all important tensioner.

It would also not work on the 2.8JTD as the can shaft gear has a lip on it too, preventing the belt from slipping or moving sideways at any stage.

It’s one of those processes that a less scrupulous car dealer can use to change a cam belt, but it’s not done properly until the entire kit is replaced.

Also, if the belt drives a water pump, then that doesn’t get replaced either.

I’d always recommend following the maintenance schedule and follow the correct workshop procedures and time the engine correctly and change the entire system.

It does make you stop and think, if when buying a second hand vehicle a dealer states that a cam belt has been replaced, then who knows if it was just a belt and replaced in the way you’ve mentioned, or the entire system was done

 

[Larby]

Here's something along these lines. My engine is the Fiat 2.3 2012. Sons have a garage so all tools and knowhow available.
This Saturday was chosen and early start made, when we came to lock the cams and crank they wouldn't align. Camshafts locked and crank marked with dob of paint. New belt has white bars to match cam and crank notches, the cam one was aligned but 1 tooth out on crank, turned crank and locked and white bar then aligned.
Belt was fitted as with cam and crank locked and not as removed.
Belts were only marked as Made in EEC (ancillary and cambelt) so probably original.
So, jumped a tooth? unlikely as belt in good condition and not slack, new belt fitted and someone got it wrong? maybe, wrong when assembled at factory? possibly
Contacted previous owner who had van from new, he assured me no belts fitted.
So jumped a tooth or wrongly installed?
We reckon wrongly installed as the boys had a Fiesta once for its first belt and that was wrong.
Both vehicles showed no problem with 1 tooth out despite 24 teeth being 15 degrees error.

Any thoughts?

 

[wfdTamar]

Did you notice any difference in how it ran?

 

[tonyidle]

Yes it,s a fiat 2.8jtd 2004 only got 19,500 miles from new 6 berth but got no history with MH so going to do to be on safe side
Lofty 1

If the mileage is correct it's too soon to be changing it? History wouldn't help because nothing can be done to the belt at a service - it wouldn't be touched until a change was due.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Apparently access is a right sod,

Try doing a pd150 engine in a Golf with AC.

Now that is a right pain

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[Silver-Fox]

If the mileage is correct it's too soon to be changing it? History wouldn't help because nothing can be done to the belt at a service - it wouldn't be touched until a change was due.

I’ll have to disagree with you.
Go on mileage or years it’s been on.

60k ish or 5 years I’d recommend

 

[tonyidle]

I’ll have to disagree with you.
Go on mileage or years it’s been on.

60k ish or 5 years I’d recommend

And I'll have to agree with you - I missed the fact that it's a 2004 van .

 

[Larby]

Did you notice any difference in how it ran?

Nothing noticeable but happy it is correct.

 

[wfdTamar]

It’s 6 yearly with that engine. Can’t remember the km, but that’s not going to be an issue with a motorhome (maybe with some rare exceptions). What you could do though on such a low mileage is only do the belt as with time it’s only the belt rubber that’s a concern, but as you’re there you may as well do the pulleys etc as it does cost much extra.

Done a Skoda PD 140 engine and it was ok.

 

[Larby]

I changed the belt on my 1st MH, 10 years old so belt 11/12 years old but only done 20,000 miles
The belt was still OK but here's the pulley, grease dried out and waiting to fail.
Rusty due to lack of use!!
Change the lot !!

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[pappajohn]

Slice the whole of the timing belt in half along it's length and then remove the outer half, then slid the new belt on up to the old half of the belt left on then cut and remove the old half and push the new belt into place. Doing it this way you will not loose the belt timing nor do you need to but a cam shaft locking tool.

View attachment 294116

Good idea in theory, but the old belt will have stretched VERY slightly so THE teeth MAY NOT line up with the new belt.

 

[Two on Tour]

Good idea in theory, but the old belt will have stretched VERY slightly so THE teeth MAY NOT line up with the new belt.

Tensioner should/will sort that out.

 

[wfdTamar]

I changed the belt on my 1st MH, 10 years old so belt 11/12 years old but only done 20,000 miles
The belt was still OK but here's the pulley, grease dried out and waiting to fail.
Rusty due to lack of use!!
Change the lot !!
View attachment 294198

Yes, there is that factor. We don’t suffer rust anywhere near as much as vehicles over there. Quite easy to have a car 30-40 years with no sign.

 

[gus-lopez]

It does make you stop and think, if when buying a second hand vehicle a dealer states that a cam belt has been replaced, then who knows if it was just a belt and replaced in the way you’ve mentioned, or the entire system was done

Yes it means nothing these days as even if told it has been done if the idlers where due changing you still have to check it all. Unless there is a receipt for the complete kit.
My mpv used to need a kit at 60k miles then just a belt next time . & so on.
Water pump was always worth doing every time.

 

[PP Bear]

Ian, I'll be doing my 2002 2.8 JTD in May/June. It has only 33,000 miles, but 6 years since the belt was done. From my reading you need to lock the flywheel somehow so you can undo & redo that huge 36mm bolt (200Nm). I've seen conflicting advice about how this is done depending on exactly which engine and/or year it is. Some say there's an 8mm hole you slide an 8mm rod into that engages the flywheel teeth. Another bloke couldn't find that hole, so made himself a lock that bolts on where the starter motor is (after removing it).

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/218539-2-8-jtd-timing-belt-replacement-3.html

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/warning-cam-belt-fiat-ducato-2-8-jtd-must-read.13521/

Apparently access is a right sod, particularly in an A-class and if there's air con. I intend doing the waterpump as generally with timing belts doing the timing belt gets you so far toward that job you might as well do it, but again, access for that is supposed to be really tricky. Why they design these things so badly I do not know.

Just done my 2006 JTD all be it on an Autotrail.

2 man job to undo the dif bolt if someone’s available. On mine there’s a clear section cut out at the bottom of the gearbox and I easily inserted a screwdriver that locked the flywheel, while someone else loosened the nut.

Refit of the dif bolt was the same procedure.

No requirement to lock the cam shaft either and the timing marks were clearly visible.

Can’t imagine how tight it must be on an A class. That'll teach you, should have got a real motorhome and none of that fancy A class rubbish

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