Mercedes Vario 814 Build - Our New Fulltime Home (1 Viewer)

[Dutch 68]

Look what's just arrived

View attachment 651218

So, RAF Blue Grey finally got Claira's vote

View attachment 651219

Gone for a very tough military paint with an anti-corrosive primer.

Went with this combo as it's supposed to be very forgiving to use. It can be applied with a brush or roller and should dry flat (bet it isn't that easy). I'm also assured that we can do one section at a time - take back to bare metal, apply primer - and then apply the top coats at a later date without any issue.

View attachment 651220

Went with a very tough satin black chassis paint to do all the rails etc before a floor goes in. Northernraider did a great job of restoring the chassis and red oxide'ing, so a pretty easy job for us. Also bought a small shot blasting machine to get all the running gear and wheels nice and rust free, before they get a protective coat as well. We have a few tarps that will be taped together to catch the blast media so we can re use it.

I've not noticed any weeps from anywhere, but wanted to seal over the joints in the new panels to be safe. The water leak paint can be applied after the primer and before the top coat. Inside, all joins will be Sika'd or similar.

I'll also fill as many of the dents as I can before top coat. Not going to be too precious about this though. It's a Vario after all

Due to start this on Monday 22nd. Best bit - Claira's doing most of it
(she's way better at painting than me)


Obviously I've been a little concerned about the colour in the summer. But have a solution.

Firstly, insulation. We can get 50mm PIR almost everywhere and the ribs will be spray foamed. Then our usual way of vapour barrier'ing.
Although this should do a pretty good job, I want better than good. So the second thing we are going to add is air-con.

The plan is to get a second hand Eurom AC 2401 over the winter (if anyone has one that's maybe damaged and wants to sell, please let me know), tear it apart, make it as quiet as possible, then build it in to the van body.

We will have one 460Ah LiFePO4 battery from the start, wired ready to add a second before next summer. These, along with 1kw of solar, will mean we can run air con without EHU. It would work with 1 x 460Ah and that much solar, but I'd like more overhead in case of a really hot night, followed by a few really overcast days.

There's still a few things I haven't decided on. Firstly, do I make the solar tilt?

I think with 1Kw tilted we would be solar sufficient all year. But, is it worth the bother of a stronger rack, an electric elevator and electronic locks? The extra structure would weigh around an extra 40kg and I still wouldn't be confident of having it up in stronger winds. The van will use around 2Kw of electric per day and I'm on a fixed tariff at the unit for the next 2 years, so the cost of charging the van in the winter is a maximum of 40p per day. I think I'm leaning towards no tilt.

There's a few other thigs as well, but quite trivial so I won't mention them.

Anyway, we're looking forward to finally making a start on this. Loads of the parts are here, although 3 of the windows don't arrive the UK until the end of October, so not going to be a quick build. But this will likely be our home for the next decade and all that matters is, when it's finished, it's as good as it can be.

Treat it as a showroom of what is possible, what about a system with a double layer of solar panels on the roof with the possibility to slide the top layer on either side hanging off the sides as a pitched roof and thus creating a doubling of capacity?

 

[Jays2]

When we build it’s always what it the least I need to consume, then build the system.

 

[TinaLes]

Hi Wissel Great to get an update on The Vario Build.
When you mentioned 460AH LifePO4 battery, I thought surely that size involves more than 1 battery?
Then I Googled 460amp Li Batteries and found the one in the link below, is that what you intend to use?
I am thinking at that size & cost if one cell drops out is it really worth the risk, why not consider a bank of smaller Li batteries? If one goes down, must be much cheaper/convenient to replace?
LES

Roamer 460SMART3 - 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Leisure Battery + Free Consultation

Buy the Roamer 460SMART3 and get a free electrical system design consultation worth £120. The Roamer 460SMART3 is a high capacity 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 battery for install in a campervan, motorhome, boat or tiny house. Includes 250A continuous discharge, active balancing, Roamer BMS bluetooth app...

roamerbatteries.com

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[Raul]

That’s the battery, and likely hood of having a cell failure are very slim. Those are high end top quality packs. He’s done his homework on this aspect.

 

[Wissel]

TinaL Yep, as Raul has already said, that's the battery(s) I'm going for.

Totally understand your point, but the Roamer is a well made battery and has a 10 year British guarantee. I've fitted quite a few of these and had a lot of dealings with the company. I'm confident that if I ever had an issue, it would be dealt with swiftly.

Besides, I'll still have redundancy. I'll have two of these batteries fitted by next summer

 

[Dutch 68]

TinaL Yep, as Raul has already said, that's the battery(s) I'm going for.

Totally understand your point, but the Roamer is a well made battery and has a 10 year British guarantee. I've fitted quite a few of these and had a lot of dealings with the company. I'm confident that if I ever had an issue, it would be dealt with swiftly.

Besides, I'll still have redundancy. I'll have two of these batteries fitted by next summer

Go for four, the AA is rubbish , so you can earn some beer money, quick response vehicle lol

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[fifthwheel]

Bit late now if you have made your choice of colour but the new grey from Royal Enfield (Halcyon Grey) looks good.

 

[Wissel]

Bit late now if you have made your choice of colour but the new grey from Royal Enfield (Halcyon Grey) looks good.

That bike would look good on the back

 

[fifthwheel]

That bike would look good on the back

195kg, 100 plus to the gallon, 350cc fantastic bike, I have one in Red/Chrome.

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[roamervans]

Hi Wissel Great to get an update on The Vario Build.
When you mentioned 460AH LifePO4 battery, I thought surely that size involves more than 1 battery?
Then I Googled 460amp Li Batteries and found the one in the link below, is that what you intend to use?
I am thinking at that size & cost if one cell drops out is it really worth the risk, why not consider a bank of smaller Li batteries? If one goes down, must be much cheaper/convenient to replace?
LES

Roamer 460SMART3 - 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Leisure Battery + Free Consultation

Buy the Roamer 460SMART3 and get a free electrical system design consultation worth £120. The Roamer 460SMART3 is a high capacity 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 battery for install in a campervan, motorhome, boat or tiny house. Includes 250A continuous discharge, active balancing, Roamer BMS bluetooth app...

roamerbatteries.com

Hey Wissel, loving the colour choice and glad to see the build is coming along!

An update on the 460 batteries, delivery is on track for the end of August and its still possible to preorder these with the discount. I would advise getting your second battery from the same batch if budget allows however.

The next batch after this one will the 3rd gen models which although based on the same cells, will have a few upgrades internally including cell brackets, a newer BMS version and an active balancer. Price will be higher and we can't guarantee compatibility between your 1st and 2nd batteries.

 

[dpsuk999]

Hi roamervans are you able to give an indication on price for the 3rd gen 460ah batteries and approx delivery dates? I’ll be looking to purchase 2.

Thanks David

 

[Wissel]

I've been ill the last 2 months (seemed to get everything, one thing after another) so progress has been non-existent on the Vario as I've obviously has to prioritise customer builds.

But yesterday, I got a kick up the bum. A notice on the vehicle saying the council thought it was abandoned and would tow it in a week

I phoned them straight away and they said don't worry about it and just ignore the notice, but I couldn't take that chance. Time for the Vario to come over to the workshop.

Kind of well timed as we are currently expanding. Our current workshop was fine in size, but because of the issues with global supplies at the moment, we have had to order some customer parts months in advance. A lot of these have turned up early, so space is now a little tight. The unit next door became available and we jumped at it. A real advantage is the extra parking spaces.

So anyway, yesterday I went to move the Vario, but the batteries were dead. Northernraider had warned me to disconnect them if parked for a long time, but, like an idiot, I forgot. No big deal as I'd have replaced them anyway, so ordered new ones yesterday and they arrived first thing this morning. I also ordered a cutoff to make switching them off easy in future. It's not as if this van has central locking

It was quite funny really, a group of around 30 people started watching as I swapped the batteries, waiting to see it move. I get some pretty flashy vans in here quite often and nobody bats an eyelid. But everyone loves the Vario.

Batteries swapped, a quick walkaround, then into the drivers seat. It started instantly, to a lot of approving looks

A minute to charge the air brakes and a short drive to the unit. It was the first time Claira has been in the front while it's being driven and she loves it.

Since it's been parked here we've had a constant stream of people pop over asking if we're starting it now, what's the plan, etc, etc. I left Claira to talk to them all

Anyway, van is now at the unit and work will start in the next couple of weeks.

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[Northernraider]

Get on with it will ye

I expect it finished by the time I get back

 

[Raul]

Hi Wissel, take a look at this photo. If you still on the fence with tilting or not, these my help you decide.

The first controller it’s a 100/20 with 2x 115w panels pointing to the sun, output 212w.
Second controller it’s a 100/50 with 2x 295w panels flat on the roof, output 395w,
This was midd late morning, before noon, sun was south east and my roof tilting it’s facing south west. So I do not tilt them until 1-2pm, unless I move to reposition;.

 

[Wissel]

Hi Wissel, take a look at this photo. If you still on the fence with tilting or not, these my help you decide.

The first controller it’s a 100/20 with 2x 115w panels pointing to the sun, output 212w.
Second controller it’s a 100/50 with 2x 295w panels flat on the roof, output 395w,
This was midd late morning, before noon, sun was south east and my roof tilting it’s facing south west. So I do not tilt them until 1-2pm, unless I move to reposition;. View attachment 662905

Thanks for that Raul

The thing is, I'll have 1.2Kw of solar. I think that during most of the year, the only time this wouldn't be sufficient would be when it's quite cloudy. Surely this would be the same if the panels were tilted?

I imagine it would be an advantage over the winter, but again, if it's cloudy, would it be enough of an advantage to make a difference or would I still need hookup?

What do you think?

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[Raul]

Tilting will only help if the sun is out but low, in winter. And you can stretch the peak by tilting, rather than a short peak at noon. When cloudy, best orientation is flat towards the sky, that way you get all the cloud reflection.

 

[Wissel]

If I did go with tilting panels, I'd want them to lift electronically.

This is for two reasons:
1. If they were manual and I had to get up a ladder etc, I know I'd never bother (yep, lazy )
2. I could add a wind sensor. This way if I forgot they're up, or have popped out and the weather turned, they could retract themselves.

This is the layout of my roof (the sharp eyed may notice the interior design changes as well):

I like to frame solar panels into a roofrack, so that the panels are protected and sit flush with the frame. On the Vario, I'll frame with 45mm Aluminium, like I used on the Sprinter build. This is really solid:

To make the panels tilt, I'd add a second "inner frame" like this:

This frame would be hinged across the awning side and lift as one panel. I'd likely use a Stainless Steel continuous hinge for this. I'd add supports the other side, so it drops into a set place, and four linear solenoid locks to lock it into place.

The question is, what do I use to lift and retract?

The obvious solution is some kind of linear actuators, but does anyone know of a better solution?

Linear actuators would need to be fitted at an angle, to start the lift. Does anyone know what angle these need to be?

This is all I've come up with:

I like this design as I could start with this built on the floor, with the 100mm upright legs as shown (total height = 145mm).

I could then test it before fitting, so if there wasn't enough angle for the actuator to start easily, I could increase the leg height a little and add another pivot point to the cross brace. But I don't want to go much higher if it can be helped.

Anyway, that's the best I can come up with, so over to the rest of you

Any ideas anyone?

 

[Just smiffy]

I’ve seen a YouTube video of some bloke doing it this way and the panels came down with a crash if I remember rightly….
I think he scraped the idea..?

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[Sasbo]

Wissel you could maybe consider using these:

SANON Reversible High Torque Worm Geared Motor DC 12V Reduction Electric Motor 20RPM https://amzn.eu/d/ippHAA0

This is an example of them used as a door opener/closer. A setup which would be similar to what you want to do with your solar panels.

 

[tonyidle]

Use a small cam-shape to link the actuator ends to the panel. This would perform the initial lift so the actuator could be parallel to the roof. A slot in the cam could be used to lock the panels down.

 

[Just smiffy]

How not to do it…

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[Raul]

The angle to initiate the lift it’s more than I liked. With actuator fully retracted is about 7” from panel horizontal line. Mine is about 3,5” above the panel at the top end, and about 3,5” below the panel at the motor end. I tried with less and didn’t work. For accurate measure, I will have to get up on the van tomorrow. I’m working flat out late at the moment and not much time in the day, but I will find few mins. Your double frame idea it’s spot on. Not sure about the hinge side, suppose it’s down to personal choice. I got the hinges on the door side so I don’t have to sit with the door towards the sun, to hot.

 

[Wissel]

Thanks all for the replies

The angle to initiate the lift it’s more than I liked. With actuator fully retracted is about 7” from panel horizontal line. Mine is about 3,5” above the panel at the top end, and about 3,5” below the panel at the motor end. I tried with less and didn’t work. For accurate measure, I will have to get up on the van tomorrow. I’m working flat out late at the moment and not much time in the day, but I will find few mins. Your double frame idea it’s spot on. Not sure about the hinge side, suppose it’s down to personal choice. I got the hinges on the door side so I don’t have to sit with the door towards the sun, to hot.

I didn't realise you've used actuators Raul

The height you have them at to get the angle would be really useful. Can I have a little more info on your setup as well please?

Firstly, which ones did you go with. The overall length, stroke and newton rating would be really useful.

Secondly, I'd ideally like to just use 2 x actuators. I'm looking at 3000N models. Do you think this is sufficient?

I could extend the frame on the far side to be one piece, straight across, to aid against the array drooping at the sides.

I think 7" of lift is doable, without going above the panels. I'll already have 4" legs and can gain another 1 1/2 just by using channel, rather than box, for the cross members. That means I'd only need to extend the legs another 2" to be safe. I think that would look fine on the Vario.

There is a big argument for hinging the other side. It would allow me to do add something to the design that's been in the back of my mind for a while

 

[Wissel]

I now have the final specs for my roof sorted. With a lot of help from an incredibly thorough engineer that specialises in actuators in robotics, I have a system designed that is exactly what I want, along with technical drawings to build it.

I'll be tilting the array the opposite way to my drawing (as Raul suggested), using British (to spec) IP66, 2000n actuators with full speed control, current regulation and synchronisation. The control unit will be wired to a Rasp Pi to allow one button lock release and elevation and auto retract in bad weather. Lifting and lowering can be done with a mobile phone, or a wired or manual override.

I'll also be adding a custom roof tent underneath, so the array works as a pop-top and limits wind catching the panels. This will be accessed from inside the vehicle via a marine hatch. At 18cm deep, it should be able to store things like surf boards as well.

Quite looking forward to building this

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[Dutch 68]

Maybe some extra big windows lol, spotted today in Munich

 

[Wissel]

Maybe some extra big windows lol, spotted today in Munich View attachment 664834View attachment 664835

I'm on all the Vario groups etc and often see people buying fire engines. That's the first one I've seen actually finished

Thinking about it, maybe I shouldn't criticise as I'm not exactly speeding along myself

 

[Dutch 68]

I'm on all the Vario groups etc and often see people buying fire engines. That's the first one I've seen actually finished

Thinking about it, maybe I shouldn't criticise as I'm not exactly speeding along myself

I think you are on the way to make it the ultimate example , quality takes time lol, what your upholstery going to be like ? Build in silent generator too? , just to give you a mad idea yes, it would be really cool to buy an old write off, cut in half and make a trailer from the backend half of an 814, so many cool uses for that

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[paddymcc]

Is that a shorter wheelbase than yours Dave?

 

[Lenny HB]

Saw one on a Dutch Aire last week still with all the original fitting, the shutters, ladders on the roof and fire service graphics. Only things that gave it away were the curtains & some sign writing on the back.

 

[Wissel]

View attachment 664851Is that a shorter wheelbase than yours Dave?

Yeah a lot shorter. And not as tall I'd guess (older model, so not 100%).

I know someone with a short wheel, low top Vario though. Beautiful van and one of the last made, but I can't stand up in it. You certainly wouldn't fit this lot inside

I think you are on the way to make it the ultimate example , quality takes time lol, what your upholstery going to be like ? Build in silent generator too? , just to give you a mad idea yes, it would be really cool to buy an old write off, cut in half and make a trailer from the backend half of an 814, so many cool uses for that

Not decided on upholstery yet, but Claira is busy honing her skills as we eventually want to do it in house.

Genny is still a question mark. I've had a back up genny in our van for years. Times used = 0.

I'm thinking that as we will have enough power to last at least a week without any sort of charging, forget a genny. After a week or so we would need food or water etc anyway, so a night on a site would make sense I think.

Please don't get me started on a trailer. Think Claira might actually stab me

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