LPG near disaster refilling

[Northernraider]

You dont have the posability of refilling calor this was a refilling error when the disconnected bottle was left open or partly left open
Bill

Yes I know that bill

It's still down to someone not closing the valve rather than it being a fault of the kit.

In David's case if there's a chance that someone else is changing his hoses over then perhaps fitting additional hoses to his bottles is a good idea.

As I'm the only one who touches mine I always close the valve before changing the bottle or before I refill it.
Perhaps having been a welder in a previous life where a bottle was never completely empty before changing it closing a valve is automatic to me and I'd never remove a hose without doing it.

 

[tonyidle]

That sounds very sensible and fairly easy, (even for me) I will review options when home tomorrow

There's a simple & cheap way go do it given that you already have a bottle regulator: buy another one, another piece of low pressure hose, and a Tee fitting like this:



....... so both regulated outputs go to the existing van gas pipe.

 

[tonyidle]

I'm with Tam on this. The process of moving the regulator from one bottle to another is identical whether the bottles are refillable or not. And I've yet to see a bottle that is so empty of gas that it doesn't leak some quantity if the valve is opened. It is arguably more dangerous to leave an empty bottles valve open. A small quantity of inflammable vapour would leak out for a long time whereas in this case the hiss of gas provided some warning. I don't fully understand how @DavidG58 was able to leave the valve open without hearing and/or smelling that he had done so.

 

[jongood]

Wow what a lot of energy for one simple mistake.

Myself I'm glad you are going in to Autogas David @DavidG58 They are good guys with a large selection of fittings on the shelf and should be able to make your system safer quite reasonably - as long as you don't get tempted to upgrade to alugas or a tank while you are there.

Jon

 

[Busman]

Surely it's progress if you don't have to change hoses which would of stopped this operator error accident happenings ????
Tam you say your system let's you know how much gas you have left, so does mine with the crossover I just have one bottle on when empty I just open the locker and turn the other bottle on I then know I have 2-3 weeks to fill up. Dont understsnd what could be simpler/safer surely a safer model/option.

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[Cal54]

I’m one of the lucky Funsters who has had @andy63 fit a refillable bottle. I went for 1 refillable and 1 calor exchange bottle - both 6kg (I only have a small gas locker!). My reasoning was to make sure that I never ran out even if I was miles from an LPG garage. To me the T joint is a major advantage, not because of the safety reasons mentioned in this thread, but because my gas always seemed to run out at night when it was dark and I would have to arse about swooping the hose over whilst holding a torch in my mouth!! Now all I do is open the valve on the second bottle, no torch required and done in seconds.
Thanks again Andy!!

 

[scotjimland]

No as it's exactly the same changeover you would do on a regular calor gas bottle that nearly every caravanner and half the motorhomes out there do and have done for decades without issue.

not the same at all..

you don't refill Calor bottles in the locker, when you change over bottles, the empty one you are disconnecting is empty.. so there is little or no risk of gas escaping, even if you forgot to isolate it.. . .. hence no issues.

I have never seen twin refillable bottles fitted without a bulkhead regulator and either manual or auto change over valve.

this was an accident waiting to happen..

@DavidG58 .. you had a lucky escape.. glad no one was injured , but please do have a bulkhead regulator and change over valve fitted as a matter of priority..

 

[Northernraider]

Surely it's progress if you don't have to change hoses which would of stopped this operator error accident happenings ????
Tam you say your system let's you know how much gas you have left, so does mine with the crossover I just have one bottle on when empty I just open the locker and turn the other bottle on I then know I have 2-3 weeks to fill up. Dont understsnd what could be simpler/safer surely a safer model/option.

Yes dave it probably is safer if you forget to turn off a bottle I've just never had that problem. My point on this thread from the start was that's how it was supplied as a full kit and it looks like it's how gaslow supplied @DavidG58 kit also. And that it wasn't an appliance failure simply an operator error.
I'm not saying anywhere that it wouldn't be safer. I just think there were a few comments made early on saying the system wasn't safe or suggesting that it was somehow to blame.

 

[Reallyretired]

I have a simple manual changeover with a T piece and two pigtails so just close one valve and open the other. It is recommended to turn off at the bottle before filling which is just a precaution to avoid possible regulator damage but not likely to happen even if you forget.

 

[Northernraider]

not the same at all..

you don't refill Calor bottles in the locker, when you change over bottles, the empty one you are disconnecting is empty.. so there is little or no risk of gas escaping, even if you forgot to isolate it.. . .. hence no issues.

I have never seen twin refillable bottles fitted without a bulkhead regulator and either manual or auto change over valve.

this was an accident waiting to happen..

@DavidG58 .. you had a lucky escape.. glad no one was injured , but please do have a bulkhead regulator and change over valve fitted as a matter of priority..

The principle of manually changing the pig tail to the other bottle whether it's refillable or standard calor is exactly the same. That is the very clear point I've made time and time again on this thread.

This was nothing to do with that part of the system.
It was to do with someone not turning off an empty bottle valve.

I am perfectly aware you do not fill a calor bottle. ...BUT regardless you should always turn off the valve on one before disconnecting the hose as they are rarely completely empty.

On the year of David's van I'm almost certain he already has a bulkhead regulator with a pig tail attached it's standard fitment

You may never have seen this system but believe me there are thousands fitted this way as that is how the instructions that come with the kit I bought tell you to fit it.

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[CazPaul]

It's a reminder that LPG is dangerous, we once filled up and it came out of one bottle, did everything by the book on filling, had the system immediately checked by autoga s 2000 all fine, by the way who said it matters not one iota whether the bottles are turned on or off when filling(Alugas twin bottle set up).
Although not the same set up as Davids.
We are going for an underslung tank next month as almost run out of gas from the dealer supplied cylinder,therefore only one vessel to fill, @DBK is correct always wear rubber or thick gloves.

 

[Northernraider]

It's a reminder that LPG is dangerous, we once filled up and it came out of one bottle, did everything by the book on filling, had the system immediately checked by autoga s 2000 all fine, by the way who said it matters not one iota whether the bottles are turned on or off when filling(Alugas twin bottle set up).
Although not the same set up as Davids.
We are going for an underslung tank next month as almost run out of gas from the dealer supplied cylinder,therefore only one vessel to fill, @DBK is correct always wear rubber or thick gloves.

Force of habit turning the valves off as there's a big sticker on the forklift tank I had to fill for 10 years telling you to do so before filling lol.

 

[scotjimland]

You may never have seen this system but believe me there are thousands fitted this way as that is how the instructions that come with the kit I bought tell you to fit it.

I fitted my own system , and it came with comprehensive instructions..


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when you buy the kit is shows quite clearly how it should be installed .. doing otherwise is courting disaster

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[Northernraider]

I fitted my own system , and it came with comprehensive instructions..


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when you buy the kit is shows quite clearly how it should be installed .. doing otherwise is courting disaster

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It isn't how the gasit system is sold
For a start there is no steel braided hoses it's rubber hose.
And supplied with one pig tail to regulator.
The same way @DavidG58 has his gaslow fitted.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

54.2221° N, 1.3980° W

Autogas2000 coordinates

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[Freespirit1]

Yes I know that bill

It's still down to someone not closing the valve rather than it being a fault of the kit.

In David's case if there's a chance that someone else is changing his hoses over then perhaps fitting additional hoses to his bottles is a good idea.

As I'm the only one who touches mine I always close the valve before changing the bottle or before I refill it.
Perhaps having been a welder in a previous life where a bottle was never completely empty before changing it closing a valve is automatic to me and I'd never remove a hose without doing it.

Look - @Northernraider - your installation is not safe if you have not got a tie piece in the outlet pigtails from the bottles - and nor are any others here that do the same as you.

Bite the bullet - agree that a tee piece is needed - fit it - and be a big enough man and an example to the others that you are wrong in this case and willing to learn. Your method of changing over is as others here have said very plainly is a disaster waiting to happen!

 

[WynandJean]

Hi David, sorry to hear of your gas issue after your fridge problems. What refillable system due you have. It's seems to be odd. I have a gas low and when one bottle is Mt we just turn that off and open the other and look out to refill. But the fill does both bottles, we don't have to unscrew hoses or regulators?

Yes, that's the way ours works. One of the big advantages is not having to change any connections.

Wyn

 

[scotjimland]

It isn't how the gasit system is sold
For a start there is no steel braided hoses it's rubber hose.
And supplied with one pig tail to regulator.
The same way @DavidG58 has his gaslow fitted.

makes no difference, when buying ANY kit be it Gaslow, Gas It Alugas.. the are installed the same way.

Hose material or colour of bottles doesn't make any difference to how thy should be installed.

When purchasing any kit you should get advice on what you require.. especially gas kit.. and if un qualified in gas fitting seek advice..

Gas It say>>
If your not sure how to do this work, call us or get a trained Engineer first
Gas It ADVICE>>>

Broken Link Removed

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The principle of manually changing the pig tail to the other bottle whether it's refillable or standard calor is exactly the same. That is the very clear point I've made time and time again on this thread.

This was nothing to do with that part of the system.
It was to do with someone not turning off an empty bottle valve.

I am perfectly aware you do not fill a calor bottle. ...BUT regardless you should always turn off the valve on one before disconnecting the hose as they are rarely completely empty.

On the year of David's van I'm almost certain he already has a bulkhead regulator with a pig tail attached it's standard fitment

You may never have seen this system but believe me there are thousands fitted this way as that is how the instructions that come with the kit I bought tell you to fit it.

The way you are responding seems to me that if you are happy with your more than manual unscrew this screw on that system then that's fine for you. I am sure most folks would prefer not to unscrew and screw on hoses or adaptors and just want to open and close a valve and then fill up with gas. We don't let one of our bottles run out of the we also have a simple indicator gauge that goes from green, thru yellow and then red. A visual indication. When on yellow we switch over and then fill at next opportunity. Its much easier, safer and no hoses to swap around. I belive your system stems from an original refillable plus one ordinary Calor so you can swap the bottle out. The another refillable has been added to replace the Calor and the system not updated.

 

[Northernraider]

makes no difference, when buying ANY kit be it Gaslow, Gas It Alugas.. the are installed the same way.

Hose material or colour of bottles doesn't make any difference to how thy should be installed.

When purchasing any kit you should get advice on what you require.. especially gas kit.. and if un qualified in gas fitting seek advice..

Gas It say>>
If your not sure how to do this work, call us or get a trained Engineer first
Gas It ADVICE>>>

Broken Link Removed

Once again my kit was supplied complete from gas it with all rrquired parts and instructions how to fit. I fitted it myself
Perfectly competent and the system when used correctly is perfectly safe.

I do most of the work on any vehicle myself.
In fact I do most things on houses myself too.

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[Northernraider]

The way you are responding seems to me that if you are happy with your more than manual unscrew this screw on that system then that's fine for you. I am sure most folks would prefer not to unscrew and screw on hoses or adaptors and just want to open and close a valve and then fill up with gas. We don't let one of our bottles run out of the we also have a simple indicator gauge that goes from green, thru yellow and then red. A visual indication. When on yellow we switch over and then fill at next opportunity. Its much easier, safer and no hoses to swap around. I belive your system stems from an original refillable plus one ordinary Calor so you can swap the bottle out. The another refillable has been added to replace the Calor and the system not updated.

Incorrect ..

The system was bought brand new as a two bottle system from gas it in October 2017
I fitted it myself as per the supplied instructions of the kit.
But yes it does allow a standard gas bottle to be fitted if required

 

[Northernraider]

Look - @Northernraider - your installation is not safe if you have not got a tie piece in the outlet pigtails from the bottles - and nor are any others here that do the same as you.

Bite the bullet - agree that a tee piece is needed - fit it - and be a big enough man and an example to the others that you are wrong in this case and willing to learn. Your method of changing over is as others here have said very plainly is a disaster waiting to happen!

It's perfectly safe and how it was supplied.
It's only an accident waiting to happen in incompetent hands.
Otherwise as I've said before close the valves on empty bottles as your supposed to do and no accidents will happen.

 

[GJH]

Hope your burn isn't too serious @DavidG58. I use these gloves when filling our system.

 

[denisejoe]

And wear rubber gloves when refilling. You may never need them if everything goes as planned, but as you've discovered, it doesn't always.

I wouldn’t wear any rubber gloves the thickest leather ones you can buy if there’s a gas leak

 

[Raybreck]

This is the manual changeover which we had fitted at the Norfolk show couple years ago. There is no need at all to swap over anything you just close the refillable when empty and open the calor. This would then be closed again when moving off.
Ray

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[denisejoe]

When at work refilling gas bottles on fork trucks we were supplied with welders gloves rubber wouldn’t be enough

 

[Northernraider]

When at work refilling gas bottles on fork trucks we were supplied with welders gloves rubber wouldn’t be enough

Yep I have thick padded yellow leather gloves.
Often used by truck drivers they live in the gas locker. I put them on after I've closed the valves

 

[DBK]

I wouldn’t wear any rubber gloves the thickest leather ones you can buy if there’s a gas leak

I guess motorcycle gloves with a gauntlet would be good but they are bulky. Something like this is cheaper and does the job.

 

[DavidG58]

Morning all

Firstly a photo of my system

This is effectively exactly as we had it when they were Calor cylinders, swapping the screwed red wheeled connector to swap bottles

Suit yourself. All I know is David came >.< close to a premature cremation and a few pounds worth of parts will ensure it cannot happen again.

Question: Do you, David or wife do a leak test after this laborious changeover procedure ?

This is hardly laborious

However I can now see a safety advantage of fitting one more connector, equally I will now always close both valves before refilling


For clarity, I bought the system about 3 years ago from a funster and due to the numerous comments on this forum saying how easy it is to fit, did it myself, clearly it isn’t a job for the average DIYer after all

The key thing would seem to be having the right bits in the first place and buying second hand I presumed they had the right bits

It has worked fine for us for 3 years and this was a simple operator error compounded by me ignoring the gas hiss noise

I will be calling Gas it soon and hope to call in on my way down today to get another fitting added to remove totally the risk

BTW the bottles are both stamped 2010

I am very grateful for the input

Interested in the different opinions

And still pleased I posted as others will maybe gain from this experience

The burn was luckily very slight, mainly as it was obvious the valve was covered in frost I didn’t try too hard

 

[Northernraider]

Morning all

Firstly a photo of my system

View attachment 254841

This is effectively exactly as we had it when they were Calor cylinders, swapping the screwed red wheeled connector to swap bottles




This is hardly laborious

However I can now see a safety advantage of fitting one more connector, equally I will now always close both valves before refilling


For clarity, I bought the system about 3 years ago from a funster and due to the numerous comments on this forum saying how easy it is to fit, did it myself, clearly it isn’t a job for the average DIYer after all

The key thing would seem to be having the right bits in the first place and buying second hand I presumed they had the right bits

It has worked fine for us for 3 years and this was a simple operator error compounded by me ignoring the gas hiss noise

I will be calling Gas it soon and hope to call in on my way down today to get another fitting added to remove totally the risk

BTW the bottles are both stamped 2010

I am very grateful for the input

Interested in the different opinions

And still pleased I posted as others will maybe gain from this experience

The burn was luckily very slight, mainly as it was obvious the valve was covered in frost I didn’t try too hard

That's basically the same system I have only mine are gas it bottles and the hoses are rubber instead of braided steel.

I bought mine new and that's the parts that were supplied including a single pig tail the only part of fitting it that had me wondering was where to fit the fill point the rest was fitted in under 30 minutes

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