LPG near disaster refilling

[Northernraider]

That’s a very good point, I did know I should but have never done so

Would have avoided the problem twice over

The valve would be closed but he kiosk would have cut the gas off as I had the locker open

Nah I do it with mine everytime David

Never had it cut off yet.
I open locker turn of bottles close locker fit adaptor connect hose push button

Job done

Open locker turn on valve

And then relight fridge

 

[Northernraider]

Gaslow twin cylinder system gives a choice of manual or automatic change over, that is how it is designed, I can't see anybody designing the system as you suggest and relying on everybody having your mechanical knowledge and skill, always design for the lowest common denominator.

Manual changeover would work just the same as yours except safer.

Martin

EDIT forgot to add, Link Removed

Yes as does gas it and both @DavidG58 And I have the manual change over kits as they are supplied

He has gaslow I have gas it

Perfectly safe and as they come supplied

The only issue here was someone did not turn of the bottle valve when they changed the hose to.the other bottle.

 

[Taran_Las]

My locker is always open when I fill abroad - that's where I keep my adaptors

 

[Northernraider]

That's why you design safety into a system not out.

Martin

The system you just sent is the one David has fitted and the one I just described

That is the manual changeover system

 

[daveandsan]

My locker is always open when I fill abroad - that's where I keep my adaptors

Thought you were going to say that’s where you keep your fags and matches Phil.

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[Taran_Las]

Thank heaven David is honest and forthcoming about his motor-home problems. Consequently this thread should help others avoid this potentially dangerous situation

 

[Northernraider]

Funny that, years of working taught me to try to make everything idiot proof, not that I’m saying @DavidG58 is an idiot.
Simple law, if it’s possible for something to go wrong, it will.
We can’t all be perfect.

We also can't stay in the house in a bubblewrap suit.

The system is sold everywhere by gas it and gaslow ....even today i saw the same system for sale in a motorhome dealer in torrelavega Spain. It's a standard manual changeover system.
Probably thousands of them in use.

 

[DBK]

And wear rubber gloves when refilling. You may never need them if everything goes as planned, but as you've discovered, it doesn't always.

 

[funflair]

This is my last comment on this thread, for anybody interested just google Gas it or Gaslow manual changeover kit and make up your own mind, if you don't understand it you shouldn't be messing with it so get somebody that does to fit it for you.

Martin

 

[TUCANO]

Autogas 2000 Ltd
Carlton Miniott
Thirsk YO7 4NJ
Tel 01845 523213

Very Helpful, friendly, reasonable. No connection other than a happy customer.

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[Northernraider]

This is my last comment on this thread, for anybody interested just google Gas it or Gaslow manual changeover kit and make up your own mind, if you don't understand it you shouldn't be messing with it so get somebody that does to fit it for you.

Martin

Martin ...that is the kit David and I have.
The exact same kit.
He described the reason for this happening in his first post.
His wife changed the bottle and I'm assuming it's not something she does often.
Her comment after doing it did ring a bell with him but he didn't check it.

She just didn't turn the valve of.
Had there been a little gas left in the bottle it would have hissed when she undid the hose but as it was completely empty it didn't.
It's just operator error.

I'm guessing it's not the first time he's refilled his bottles but perhaps the first time his wife has done the change over.

 

[Cavs]

Operator error is not the fault of the design

On the contrary - operator error is often the fault of poor design.

Martin ...that is the kit David and I have.
The exact same kit.
He described the reason for this happening in his first post.

The kit Martin referenced does not involve disconnecting any cylinders when changing the supplying bottle, so is significantly different from the one described by the OP. Nor does it involve moving the regulator from one bottle to another.

 

[dotsontour]

A lesson learnt , one you will never do again , no one hurt badly apart from your hand . Thanks for posting we all make mistakes.
Regards Dave

 

[Northernraider]

On the contrary - operator error is often the fault of poor design.


The kit Martin referenced does not involve disconnecting any cylinders when changing the supplying bottle, so is significantly different from the one described by the OP. Nor does it involve moving the regulator from one bottle to another.

Not in my knowledge ....its often lack of training or understanding the task in hand.
That's why it's operator error and not appliance error.

The regulator is fixed to the bulkhead you don't move it.
The pig tail attached to it however connects to your gas bottles the same way it connects to a standard calor bottle.

That's the manual bit ...you change it from one bottle to the next. The filing hose on the other hand is permanently attached to both bottles.

My kit is less than 1 year old supplied by gas it complete 2 bottle kit.
Unless they have now changed the kit that's how the manual kit works.
The auto change over certainly requires nothing to be disconnected.

 

[andy63]

that is the kit David and I have.

the twin cylinder kits you buy usually include the cylinders or tanks and the filling side ,
the outlet side is left to the individual to buy as they see fit .. ie either auto change over or manual..
why don't you speak to gas it and see if they would recommend installing a system that required you to change a hose over from one bottle to the other every time you use one cylinder , I doubt they would , especially on a refillable system... if you use exchange cylinders then that may be acceptable practice , but it really isn't the best way to go on a refillable system as we have just read..
with one simple t piece you eliminate the risk..and you have a closed system
Andy

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[Cavs]

to change over we remove regulator and hose from one and reattach to the other

The regulator is fixed to the bulkhead you don't move it.

 

[Northernraider]

Yes he means the pigtail hose from the regulator not the actual regulator which is mounted to.the bulkhead

 

[Wildbill]

Well i did not know you culd buy a system that can burn your van and the garage to the ground i seen a thread sumwhar of a van and garage on fire probably the same operator error sound like a very bad dangerous set up
bill

 

[Northernraider]

the twin cylinder kits you buy usually include the cylinders or tanks and the filling side ,
the outlet side is left to the individual to buy as they see fit .. ie either auto change over or manual..
why don't you speak to gas it and see if they would recommend installing a system that required you to change a hose over from one bottle to the other every time you use one cylinder , I doubt they would , especially on a refillable system... if you use exchange cylinders then that may be acceptable practice , but it really isn't the best way to go on a refillable system as we have just read..
with one simple t piece you eliminate the risk..and you have a closed system
Andy

I'm just going in the kit they supplied and the fitting instructions andy.
I bought the complete kit for £350
And fitted it as per the instructions and only one pig tail supplied.

 

[andy63]

I'm just going in the kit they supplied and the fitting instructions andy.
I bought the complete kit for £350
And fitted it as per the instructions and only one pig tail supplied.

well if you look at the gas it web site and any of their twin cylinder kits it doesn't include anything on the outlet side... thats for the buyer to decide what he wants .... and thats why they sell the t pieces to allow twin cylinder systems to be connected to the bulkhead regulator..
it is for the buyer to specify what he wants on the outlet side I think..
Andy

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[hilldweller]

You can't blame operator error on the design of the system....

It is the duty of a designer at the risk analysis stage to anticipate how stupid people can be and protect them from themselves.

I've seen enough missing hands and fingers in the woodworking industry to know that familiarity breeds contempt for safety.

ABS brakes are a prime example, no-one needs ABS and can stop faster without it but on that day when the brain fades the ABS saves the day.

I'm firmly on the side of a manual changeover valve. No chance of a wear/dirt in threads to leak one day, no chance of forgetting to turn off a valve. Or for a bit more swish, automatic changeover with LED indicator.

 

[Northernraider]

well if you look at the gas it web site and any of their twin cylinder kits it doesn't include anything on the outlet side... thats for the buyer to decide what he wants .... and thats why they sell the t pieces to allow twin cylinder systems to be connected to the bulkhead regulator..
it is for the buyer to specify what he wants on the outlet side I think..
Andy

I bought it from gas it on eBay ...they have the kits on there still and they come complete with pigtails etc ...
Some have auto change over and some have manual ...lots of different kits.

But @DavidG58 has a gaslow kit exactly like mine so obviously both companies do the same kit

The one I saw here in Spain today that was green for some reason had the same thing
2 bottles 2 hoses plus t piece for filling with external filler and one pig tail.

Like you said you could add a second pigtail with a t piece ...but I know in my locker at present there's a lot of hose crammed in there. If the next owner feels the need to fit it then they can do that.

I tend never to let my bottle completely empty anyway I put €10 A fortnight into it by force of habit. So I can't remember the last time I actually had to change the hose to the other bottle.

 

[Northernraider]

It is the duty of a designer at the risk analysis stage to anticipate how stupid people can be and protect them from themselves.

I've seen enough missing hands and fingers in the woodworking industry to know that familiarity breeds contempt for safety.

ABS brakes are a prime example, no-one needs ABS and can stop faster without it but on that day when the brain fades the ABS saves the day.

I'm firmly on the side of a manual changeover valve. No chance of a wear/dirt in threads to leak one day, no chance of forgetting to turn off a valve. Or for a bit more swish, automatic changeover with LED indicator.

Having worked most of my life in manual labour both factories and warehouses. Yes there's risk assessment done on everything

But leaving a gas bottle valve open before disconnecting the hose still in every way comes down to operator error.
The bottle has a shut off valve ....the operator has to use it.
Risk assessment has to rely on some degree of operator capability otherwise we couldn't do anything.

 

[Wildbill]

I wonder when ther will be a fire and possible fatalities with this fallings in the way this system is set up if there's a chance of gas release.
And then motorhomes will not be allowed to fill up at garages the gas low system is expensive and i think that ther penny pinching is a disaster waiting to happen.
Even just the extra pig tale could save someone from a serious problem or even death
bill

 

[hilldweller]

Having worked most of my life in................

Suit yourself. All I know is David came >.< close to a premature cremation and a few pounds worth of parts will ensure it cannot happen again.

Question: Do you, David or wife do a leak test after this laborious changeover procedure ?

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[hilldweller]

I wonder when...........................
bill

Sorry, off topic, good to see you back. Sure as hell you could tell tales of unnecessary deaths and mutilations.

 

[Northernraider]

Suit yourself. All I know is David came >.< close to a premature cremation and a few pounds worth of parts will ensure it cannot happen again.

Question: Do you, David or wife do a leak test after this laborious changeover procedure ?

No as it's exactly the same changeover you would do on a regular calor gas bottle that nearly every caravanner and half the motorhomes out there do and have done for decades without issue.

By all means yes if you can link them together and you wish to do so then fair enough.

But it isn't necessary it works absolutely fine as it is if it's used properly.
My second bottle practically exsists just as a spare. I know an 11kg bottle lasts me just over two weeks so I fill it before it's completely empty.
If I was fitting a kit again I'd only have one bottle in there.

 

[Wildbill]

Sorry, off topic, good to see you back. Sure as hell you could tell tales of unnecessary deaths and mutilations.

I have herd the I though the valve was close as gas was vented overboard

Bill

 

[Wildbill]

No as it's exactly the same changeover you would do on a regular calor gas bottle that nearly every caravanner and half the motorhomes out there do and have done for decades without issue.

You dont have the posability of refilling calor this was a refilling error when the disconnected bottle was left open or partly left open
Bill

 

[Just smiffy]

Just a quick poll.....

Recently met @DavidG58 and Bev at lyminton rally... a lovely couple with there dog..

I was parked about 100yrds away...

1. Should I have moved further away?

2. Left the rally?







Sorry David couldn’t resist it.... I do hope your luck gets better soon and you take this the way it’s intended as I didn’t think anyone could have worse luck then me...

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