For those thinking of using P&O Ferries (1 Viewer)

[chaser]

Btw I have never used or will do p& o as I don't do ferrys.

 

[ctc]

That’s what they want to happen it’s about values and ethics.

Values and ethics? Are you a foreigner, have you not lived here long enough yet?

 

[jeddy]

Switched to Irish Ferries. No P&O for me.

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[Brains]

The whole country is over run with foreign workers, why should these be any different when they don't even get off here.
How much is your average parcel delivery guy getting, not much more ill bet

By law the "average parcel guy" is earning over twice as much, as a legal minimum.
and he gets to go home every night
and he gets weekends off
and he gets use of the local facilities such as education and health.

As for the country being "over run with foreign workers", we all know the reasons why, we also are all aware that we need more of them to do the jobs that you and me do not want to do, such as become the "average parcel guy"

 

[chaser]

By law the "average parcel guy" is earning over twice as much, as a legal minimum.
and he gets to go home every night
and he gets weekends off
and he gets use of the local facilities such as education and health.

As for the country being "over run with foreign workers", we all know the reasons why, we also are all aware that we need more of them to do the jobs that you and me do not want to do, such as become the "average parcel guy"

Mate if I was 20 years younger I would love to be an average parcel guy at a fiver and hour, that is just what I did for 15 years.

 

[SM0129]

Switched to Irish Ferries. No P&O for me.

Irish Ferries changed to cheap foreign labour a few years back- although they didn't do it in quite the same dramatic way P&O did.

DFDS have British and French flagged boats, so they are the only ones likely paying fair wages on channel crossings

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[chaser]

If p&o suddenly doubled their wages and also the fares how many of you would use them then.
Ethical my a...

 

[scotjimland]

although they didn't do it in quite the same dramatic way P&O did.

you mean illegal and unethical way ..

 

[gus-lopez]

Will YOU promise too?

I always boycotted them prior to this.Godforsaken company

Are Irish ferries paying a better wage? DFDS? I doubt it.

They should be as both are in the EU & the reason P&O got away with what they did as Uk no longer in.

As you say flagged in a different Country so whatever the UK minimum wage is irrelevant in law.

They should deny docking . as said at the time.

I just buy it never ever think who or what is selling it.

& that is the problem & what they rely on. One day we will wake up & the chinese will have complete control of the world without a shot fired.

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[Tombola]

Switched to Irish Ferries. No P&O for me.

but what about how they treated Irish navvies back in the day.
Outragious

 

[Coolcats]

Values and ethics? Are you a foreigner, have you not lived here long enough yet?

We all have them but some choose to have poor ones

 

[Coolcats]

If p&o suddenly doubled their wages and also the fares how many of you would use them then.
Ethical my a...

Interesting they seems to have been ok before they sacked everyone and if a business is not viable able then it closes.

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[Coolcats]

Mate if I was 20 years younger I would love to be an average parcel guy at a fiver and hour, that is just what I did for 15 years.

And who is poorer for that ? I even pay a labourer £200 a day

 

[scotjimland]

but what about how they treated Irish navvies back in the day.
Outragious

how far back do you want to go in history to justify what P&O did ?

mill owners using children and working them for 12 hours a day.. in horrible conditions.. perhaps ?

The past is past.. we are discussing what has and is being done today by an unscrupulous company with the ethics of an ally cat ..

 

[chaser]

And who is poorer for that ? I even pay a labourer £200 a day

Then how much do you charge the customer?

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[David and Sally]

Here is the thing the bosses get paid more and more, the peasants as they see them get less and less and consumers want to pay as little as possible the casualty is the worker.

You forgot the shareholders whose money is at risk if the bosses foul up.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Most of the browser stuff is US centric we have allowed them to do this despite Tim Bernard’s Lee

Depends on your settings in my view. By the way, CERN had an open day when I worked in Geneva, but obviously never got to see the great man!

 

[scotjimland]

You forgot the shareholders whose money is at risk if the bosses foul up.

and of course the workers are expendable, (who do all the work)

shareholders are sacrosanct (who sit on backsides doing sfa)

nothing changes..

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[Silver-Fox]

They should deny docking . as said at the time.

If we denied every ship sailing under a different flag we would have any imports.

 

[Brains]

If we denied every ship sailing under a different flag we would have any imports.

True, but there is a difference.
A ship has to operate under the laws of the flag country, including paying the minimum wage in that country and the crew paying taxes to that country.

Under EU law, a ferry (or any ship following a regular line) between exclusively EU ports has to pay crew at EU wages.

(They may be able to pick and choose which EU minimum wage, by reflagging the ship for example to Greece and then pay Greek wages to Greek crew paying tax in Greece)

What P&O did was as soon as the UK left the EU was to fire all the UK crew.
Employed replacement crew from India, Philippines, Burma, Cambodia, etc
Promised to pay them half the minimum wage
And then welshed from that deal to pay even less.

The UK Government promised to close the loophole it had created, by bringing back the EU law they had just deleted, but I daresay a few brown envelopes changed hands and the UK Government seems to have 'forgotten' to introduce the law.
(DP World, P&O's owners, have put a lot of money into the port at Tilbury, which is now employing thousands, who should all vote Tory)

P&O claimed they would close down the route if they were forced to pay the legal minimum.
The government (of any colour) wants to keep multiple ferry companies operating, as they do not want a cartel forming over the UK's links to the mainland.

(Remember, unlike the French, the UK government sold it's stake in the tunnel, which from a strategic and financial point of view was stupid at the time and with the benefit of hindsight looks even more stupid. But it's one of those cases where politics wins over sense, strategic importance and money.)

The winners are the shareholders in P&O and to a certain extent the passengers.
The losers, in the long term are the British people, the crews and their families.

 

[WillH]

There is a little more too it than just the low wages for ratings. They work an 84 hour week for up to 17 weeks before receiving leave. In Stena Line they too work an 84 hour week but for only two weeks before receiving two weeks off. CalMac, who get government support, (that's our taxes) , work for two weeks before getting four weeks off.

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[tonyidle]

G

There is a little more too it than just the low wages for ratings. They work an 84 hour week for up to 17 weeks before receiving leave. In Stena Line they too work an 84 hour week but for only two weeks before receiving two weeks off. CalMac, who get government support, (that's our taxes) , work for two weeks before getting four weeks off.

How does that work? A week is 168 hours during which a crew is still subject to the employers rules, facilities
and accommodation. Hardly an 84 hour week.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Under EU law, a ferry (or any ship following a regular line) between exclusively EU ports has to pay crew at EU wages.

Don’t see that anywhere……..

….but ignoring EU law, the UK parliament did pass this legislation completely independently of the Brussels bureaucrats

UK Sets Minimum Wage for International Seafarers

The United Kingdom finalized a new law on March 23 that compels shipping lines operating at UK ports to provide seafarers pay levels commensurate with...

maritime-executive.com

 

[DuxDeluxe]

There is a little more too it than just the low wages for ratings. They work an 84 hour week for up to 17 weeks before receiving leave. In Stena Line they too work an 84 hour week but for only two weeks before receiving two weeks off. CalMac, who get government support, (that's our taxes) , work for two weeks before getting four weeks off.

I would have loved to have worked an 84 hour week without overtime when I was at sea for 5 months at a time

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[Gazgandalf]

Just a reminder for those thinking of using P&O Ferries to cross over to the mainland.

Two years ago they sacked all their UK staff, so that they could employ non-EU/UK residents at less than half the cost
(It was a "Brexit benefit" to P&O management as the ships were no longer trading EU to EU, but let's not go there.)

It has now been found here they are not even paying half minimum wage.
The loophole they used as a 'short term' gain, has really paid off, as two years later, they are still getting away with it.

I promised two years ago, that as long as P&O Ferries remains managed by DP Word of Dubai, that I would not use their services, no matter how cheap they make the crossings.
I'm keeping to my promise.

Will YOU promise too?

(It should be noted P&O Cruises is under different management)

"P&O Ferries is owned by DP World, a logistics company based in Dubai and owned by the prominent Emirati businessman Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem."​

I think your post is a little unfair Brains.
Businessmen, Managers and Owners of the Emirates and Dubai et al are actually living from day to day not knowing where their next Caviar erm ... Kebab is coming from!
Some have been forced to drink Aldi's Prosecco due to cut backs ... Oh the Calamity
Brains !!
It's just upsetting Brits when we ask them to 'think' about life's unfairness.

My life is more important than these 'Jonny Foreigners' so who cares?
When I board P&O I don't even look at the staff, I avoid eye contact all together.
They're all plebs!
I don't even like it when they have to hold my ticket to check the details - out with the alcohol wipes!
Use and Abuse them I say 'Brains.'
Life is cheap here and it's very cheap in some other Countries.

Seriously -
Wasn't there a big stink about Indian and Filipino's working in Dubai et al and not getting paid? Their passports were held so they couldn't leave if they wanted to.
A couple of Documentaries visited the disgusting conditions these men slept in we made - secretly.
They had Washing facilities I wouldn't wash my dog in.
All they ate was those instant noodles. The nutritional value of those noodles made them fit to ... lie down.
It took other Nations to complain and Amnesty Int. They said they would clean up their act - they still haven't.
Many 1000's were working in bleaching sun without ready access to drinking water. That is inhumane!

We don't even have a toll of those who died!!!

But as long as these oil rich Nations attract those whose morals are dubious - who have no obligation to defend those 'lesser than them' people will continue to be used and abused and treated worse than dogs!

And why O Why would these Nations care about the British workers on the Ferries. Come on, give me one good reason?
That's Right, they don't!
There isn't an MP with a spine strong enough to stand up for them.

BUT - the soccer players buried their consciences sufficiently deep enough to be 'lathered with attention' by property sellers and the authorities who wanted to advertise their high-rolling cliental as they purchased Middle Eastern properties built by slaves.

"Come to Dubai! Enjoy the Holiday of a lifetime - just don't talk to the 'dogs' about pay or conditions, otherwise
you'll be home on the next flight if you are lucky or famous ...
if not lucky or famous, you may enjoy our other bars and secure facilities!"

I don't know what kind of person can ignore the awful plight of a fellow human and not feel grieved
or at least agree it is morally wrong.
Well, perhaps No1 on the list would be Footballers and No2 their Ego's ...
​

I'm not a Marxist, Lennist or Far Leftist or anything with an 'I.S.T.' (I've already had medical treatment for I.S.T. and it was jolly successful too!)

But I do care about fellow humans being treated no better than dogs.​

IF £5 is their take home wage, my dogs food, Chicken, almost comes to that. So by my reckoning - MY Dog is better off on a daily basis that those working physical labour and long days on ... "P&O my Word, what a bunch ..."

Why does this annoy me so much? Oil Rich Nations Who Could Pay Higher Wages and Better Conditions REFUSE.

I can't see Saudi, Emirates, Dubai etc going broke because they paid their Staff a living wage!​

I've travelled to India several times and walked the pavements where damaged children are left all day in the dust and heat, in the hope that someone will shed a few coins. One Paraplegic boy could only watch the tyres of passing traffic ALL DAY. I felt nauseas when I saw him and then so angry I could have punched someone - and I'm not an aggressive person. These Countries have treated foreign workers in their Nations no differently.

So YES - Earning a decent wage is important, especially when your bosses are so wealthy
human life around them is equal to a dogs.

And ask anyone who works for M&S if treating Staff is important.
Getting a job there is as rare as hen's teeth.
​

Apologies if it sounded like a Rant
The Sermon has ended
Gaz-Gandalf has left the room ... to cool​

 

[ctc]

"P&O Ferries is owned by DP World, a logistics company based in Dubai and owned by the prominent Emirati businessman Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem."​

I think your post is a little unfair Brains.
Businessmen, Managers and Owners of the Emirates and Dubai et al are actually living from day to day not knowing where their next Caviar erm ... Kebab is coming from!
Some have been forced to drink Aldi's Prosecco due to cut backs ... Oh the Calamity
Brains !!
It's just upsetting Brits when we ask them to 'think' about life's unfairness.

My life is more important than these 'Jonny Foreigners' so who cares?
When I board P&O I don't even look at the staff, I avoid eye contact all together.
They're all plebs!
I don't even like it when they have to hold my ticket to check the details - out with the alcohol wipes!
Use and Abuse them I say 'Brains.'
Life is cheap here and it's very cheap in some other Countries.

Seriously -
Wasn't there a big stink about Indian and Filipino's working in Dubai et al and not getting paid? Their passports were held so they couldn't leave if they wanted to.
A couple of Documentaries visited the disgusting conditions these men slept in we made - secretly.
They had Washing facilities I wouldn't wash my dog in.
All they ate was those instant noodles. The nutritional value of those noodles made them fit to ... lie down.
It took other Nations to complain and Amnesty Int. They said they would clean up their act - they still haven't.
Many 1000's were working in bleaching sun without ready access to drinking water. That is inhumane!

We don't even have a toll of those who died!!!

But as long as these oil rich Nations attract those whose morals are dubious - who have no obligation to defend those 'lesser than them' people will continue to be used and abused and treated worse than dogs!

And why O Why would these Nations care about the British workers on the Ferries. Come on, give me one good reason?
That's Right, they don't!
There isn't an MP with a spine strong enough to stand up for them.

BUT - the soccer players buried their consciences sufficiently deep enough to be 'lathered with attention' by property sellers and the authorities who wanted to advertise their high-rolling cliental as they purchased Middle Eastern properties built by slaves.

"Come to Dubai! Enjoy the Holiday of a lifetime - just don't talk to the 'dogs' about pay or conditions, otherwise
you'll be home on the next flight if you are lucky or famous ...
if not lucky or famous, you may enjoy our other bars and secure facilities!"

I don't know what kind of person can ignore the awful plight of a fellow human and not feel grieved
or at least agree it is morally wrong.
Well, perhaps No1 on the list would be Footballers and No2 their Ego's ...
​

I'm not a Marxist, Lennist or Far Leftist or anything with an 'I.S.T.' (I've already had medical treatment for I.S.T. and it was jolly successful too!)

But I do care about fellow humans being treated no better than dogs.​

IF £5 is their take home wage, my dogs food, Chicken, almost comes to that. So by my reckoning - MY Dog is better off on a daily basis that those working physical labour and long days on ... "P&O my Word, what a bunch ..."

Why does this annoy me so much? Oil Rich Nations Who Could Pay Higher Wages and Better Conditions REFUSE.

I can't see Saudi, Emirates, Dubai etc going broke because they paid their Staff a living wage!​

I've travelled to India several times and walked the pavements where damaged children are left all day in the dust and heat, in the hope that someone will shed a few coins. One Paraplegic boy could only watch the tyres of passing traffic ALL DAY. I felt nauseas when I saw him and then so angry I could have punched someone - and I'm not an aggressive person. These Countries have treated foreign workers in their Nations no differently.

So YES - Earning a decent wage is important, especially when your bosses are so wealthy
human life around them is equal to a dogs.

And ask anyone who works for M&S if treating Staff is important.
Getting a job there is as rare as hen's teeth.
​

Apologies if it sounded like a Rant
The Sermon has ended
Gaz-Gandalf has left the room ... to cool​

MP'S may be spineless but until Rupert chooses a new lot this is what we've got.

 

[Folkranger]

I hate the fact that, as expected the UK government promised to do something about P&O and to date has not. I hate even more that the French government are doing just that. I doubt that the French response was aimed at improving the lot of the P&O crews. I'm sure it has more to do with P&O undercutting Brittany Ferries so they are simply looking after their own interests.

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[mitzimad]

If anyone wants an Insight into conditions aboard merchantships i reccomend reading 54days on a container ship

 

[plug]

It may not affect you , but one day you, or one of your family, may be fired by video message and your job given to a low paid foreign agency worker..

Turn a blind eye and keep supporting this company ... it doesn't affect you.. your choice.

When this happened I vowed never to set foot on a PO ferry again.. I haven't and I wont..

First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me.

By Martin Niemöller

I agree with your statement Jim, but there are people on this site that run their Motorhome on a budget every year and are not in the position of choice.

 

[scotjimland]

I agree with your statement Jim, but there are people on this site that run their Motorhome on a budget every year and are not in the position of choice.

Thanks for agreeing, but I can assure you we also run on a tight budget .. we are not affluent, I have a basic state pension and my wife who is a bit younger works in a care home .. ... we have 21 year old PVC, we don't own our own home .. not complaining, just how it is.. but in any case, from what has been said on here, P&O are not necessarily the cheapest ..but I haven't checked.. nor plan to do so.

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