For those thinking of using P&O Ferries (1 Viewer)

[Bertilak]

Surely unless you always wear British made clothes, from British woven cloths; drive a British car/van made from British steel, have a British made TV , furniture, household goods etc, you have little right to complain. (and I've worked in manufacturing for 40+ years ).
True patriots would choose to holiday in the UK, of course, and certainly not go abroad to revel in the cheaper labour by the Med etc.

Yes it's sad for the way the workers were dismissed, but to me it's just a shining example of the normal British "I'm alright jack" attitude that's been prevalent for 50 years.

But if you want to return to the standard of living from the 1970's (the only two car families we saw were corporate directors etc, no fancy NHS treatments, few could afford foreign holidays) go ahead with the narrow nationalist socialist viewpoint.
Worldwide socialists would realise everyone in the UK has 2.5 times more real-terms wealth than "their share"; though there are a few obscene billionaires all over the world too.

 

[Coolcats]

Then how much do you charge the customer?

That depends on the job, but that £200 is only £25 an hour, if you cant make or charge £25 an hour for some ones time then something is wrong.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

If anyone wants an Insight into conditions aboard merchantships i reccomend reading 54days on a container ship

If you want to know life was about on a merchant ship then ask me……….. happy to horrify people with verifiable stories….. It was and still is a very tough way to earn a living, but regrets?? None whatsoever. My credentials?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tombola]

That depends on the job, but that £200 is only £25 an hour, if you cant make or charge £25 an hour for some ones time then something is wrong.

Pre or post tax and NI ??

cards in ? lol

 

[Coolcats]

You forgot the shareholders whose money is at risk if the bosses foul up.

stocks and shares are a gamble and sometimes the gamblers win and sometimes they loose, sometimes that management listen too closely to the pressure the stock market places on them

 

[Coolcats]

Pre or post tax and NI ??

cards in ? lol

pre tax and Ni @ £200 a day thats £1K a week, they pay their own tax and Ni

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dash300]

Surely unless you always wear British made clothes, from British woven cloths; drive a British car/van made from British steel, have a British made TV , furniture, household goods etc, you have little right to complain. (and I've worked in manufacturing for 40+ years ).
True patriots would choose to holiday in the UK, of course, and certainly not go abroad to revel in the cheaper labour by the Med etc.

Yes it's sad for the way the workers were dismissed, but to me it's just a shining example of the normal British "I'm alright jack" attitude that's been prevalent for 50 years.

But if you want to return to the standard of living from the 1970's (the only two car families we saw were corporate directors etc, no fancy NHS treatments, few could afford foreign holidays) go ahead with the narrow nationalist socialist viewpoint.
Worldwide socialists would realise everyone in the UK has 2.5 times more real-terms wealth than "their share"; though there are a few obscene billionaires all over the world too.

Quite right. If the UK denigrators want to highlight 'broken' look beyond Britain and lets face it broken Europe. For true broken have a look Worldwide perhaps Haiti and Sudan just for starters. With the exception of the super rich tax havens in Europe and further afield there are desperately more broken nations around the world than Europe.
In a worldwide recession, post Pandemic with major wars and attacks against Western assets it's hardly surprising the Western boom has slowed.
If we truly are broken perhaps we need to repatriate our overseas aid for use in the UK.
Meanwhile other nations will take up the slack and forge ahead whilst we feel sorry for ourselves!

 

[PaulC70]

At first I was the same, "how dare they etc" but hey needs must and I simply go the cheapest, that's usually P&O. nice staff.

 

[Tombola]

pre tax and Ni @ £200 a day thats £1K a week, they pay their own tax and Ni

Self employed are they

just nudged into the higher tax bracket of 40% if paye.

SO they get paid £200.00 per day, ? Cash ?

doing well !

Starting to make what P&O are doing look quite innocent if its like most of the labourers I have encountered,
unless of course its all paid electronically and tax ni paid cards in...( YA !!!) course it is guvner... !!!! LOL

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[shawn&emma]

Don’t think I’ve ever earnt more than £15 an hour. The more you earn the more you spend on crap you don’t need which then fuels this whole cycle that you’ve got to earn more to get more crap.

 

[Charente16]

Just a reminder for those thinking of using P&O Ferries to cross over to the mainland.

Two years ago they sacked all their UK staff, so that they could employ non-EU/UK residents at less than half the cost
(It was a "Brexit benefit" to P&O management as the ships were no longer trading EU to EU, but let's not go there.)

It has now been found here they are not even paying half minimum wage.
The loophole they used as a 'short term' gain, has really paid off, as two years later, they are still getting away with it.

I promised two years ago, that as long as P&O Ferries remains managed by DP Word of Dubai, that I would not use their services, no matter how cheap they make the crossings.
I'm keeping to my promise.

Will YOU promise too?

(It should be noted P&O Cruises is under different management)

Unfortunately, people are still willing to 'Holiday' in the UAE and in partictular Dubai were the working/living conditions for the vast majority of asian workers is pretty dire to say the least.

 

[15edward]

I read this morning both France and Uk implementing legal obligation to pay minimum wage

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MichaelT]

Think you may find for an overseas worker it is ‘sufficient’ money but my guess is none will be British or EU. Now if your ok with overseas workers taking on work at that pay in place of British and EU workers it’s a sad day so I agree with the OP we should just boycott the ships.

So the only other option is Eurotunnel as Irish ferries did the same several years before not sure of DFDS but the Newhaven route only survives because of subsidies. Not sticking up for anyone but I guess if they didn't follow Irish ferries and the rest they would have gone bust. Eurotunnel will either have to follow suit or go bust as they are just running empty trains as they can't compete on price.

 

[MichaelT]

and he gets weekends off

I get amazon deliveries 7 days a week

 

[Gellyneck]

I read this morning both France and Uk implementing legal obligation to pay minimum wage

Would be interesting to read this article. Do you have a link to it?

What are the "boundaries" of the obligation?

Does it include all seafarers, cross channel lorry drivers, etc, etc, etc?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Markman]

I hate the fact that, as expected the UK government promised to do something about P&O and to date has not. I hate even more that the French government are doing just that. I doubt that the French response was aimed at improving the lot of the P&O crews. I'm sure it has more to do with P&O undercutting Brittany Ferries so they are simply looking after their own interests.

But they have, see:

Don’t see that anywhere……..

….but ignoring EU law, the UK parliament did pass this legislation completely independently of the Brussels bureaucrats

UK Sets Minimum Wage for International Seafarers

The United Kingdom finalized a new law on March 23 that compels shipping lines operating at UK ports to provide seafarers pay levels commensurate with...

maritime-executive.com

Please read this article. Useful and a good post from DuxDeluxe.

 

[Peter and Julie]

Was on TV news last night France have set a minimum wage for ferry employees at 11.65 euro. Uk have to comply I think.

 

[chaser]

I wonder how many people have tried to start a business putting everything into it and willing to work for next to nothing but then being buggered by having to pay a worker twice as much as he is making.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Odd job]

I saw a BBC item about the pay, at the end they grudgingly mentioned that some of the foreign workers told them that it was impossible to earn as much money in their own countries. Also I don't think we are getting the full story, the workers get £5 an hour plus accommodation and food as well as flights to work and back home. So they get to save their wages and support their families. If this is stopped by law or public opinion the consequence will be the foreign workers will be fired and be struggling to feed their families.

 

[Tombola]

there are plenty people who want to work 50 and 60 hours per week to earn quickly at a young age.
I used to do similar

 

[Gellyneck]

I saw a BBC item about the pay, at the end they grudgingly mentioned that some of the foreign workers told them that it was impossible to earn as much money in their own countries. Also I don't think we are getting the full story, the workers get £5 an hour plus accommodation and food as well as flights to work and back home. So they get to save their wages and support their families. If this is stopped by law or public opinion the consequence will be the foreign workers will be fired and be struggling to feed their families.

Or the simple solution would be pay them the "minimum wage" and then make deductions for food, accommodation, don't provide travel support, etc and they end up back at where they are now!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chaser]

Don’t think I’ve ever earnt more than £15 an hour. The more you earn the more you spend on crap you don’t need which then fuels this whole cycle that you’ve got to earn more to get more crap.

When I finished 10 odd years ago, van driving I was on £5 an hour , that was basic rate and it was that much more than I had ever seen before and just couldn't understand how they could afford to pay so much and I enjoyed the job that much I would have worked for half as much.

 

[Odd job]

Or the simple solution would be pay them the "minimum wage" and then make deductions for food, accommodation, don't provide travel support, etc and they end up back at where they are now!

Except they would be liable for tax, NI etc.

 

[chaser]

Is there no such thing as job satisfaction anymore, when I was at school and a bloke used to come round about starting work and I shall always remember him saying get a job that you like doing as it will be your life don't look at how much money you can make but how happy you will be doing it.
And that is what I have done all my life, all the jobs I have ever done I would have done for nothing if I just got enough to live on as I enjoyed doing them.
I have never got up in a morning dreading having to go to work, someone having to pay me what the government said was nowhere in my thoughts.
Has this all gone now, doesn't anyone go to work just because they like doing it?
These guys on the ships might be as happy as Larry doing it because they enjoy it , has no one ever thought of that.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DuxDeluxe]

These guys on the ships might be as happy as Larry doing it because they enjoy it , has no one ever thought of that

Most of the crews when I was at sea were either caribbean (paid NUS rates) or from the subcontinent. The latter were paid a pittance by our standards and served a long time on board between leaves. They did the job because their pay meant that the bosun could afford a couple of servants and a big house with land for farming whereas I was struggling to pay a mortgage on a small semi detached house……

 

[Tombola]

These guys on the ships might be as happy as Larry doing it because they enjoy it , has no one ever thought of that.

When I was on the ships...it was one of the best times of my life. Friends from all round the world.. girls and boys doing what 20 somethings do, everyone looking out for each other...... the fillipinos would do others work for them if required for a few 3xtra dollars.
....all fun times Everyone was happy. G

Tough is the wrong word ...busy yes.....digging coal is tough...being a soldier is tough..serving dinners and cleaning up 12 hours a day is a piece of cake.

If someone had come along virtue signalling at that time telling ME...what I should be doing I'd have told em where to go.

 

[chaser]

Most of the crews when I was at sea were either caribbean (paid NUS rates) or from the subcontinent. The latter were paid a pittance by our standards and served a long time on board between leaves. They did the job because their pay meant that the bosun could afford a couple of servants and a big house with land for farming whereas I was struggling to pay a mortgage on a small semi detached house……

Understand that mate but that wasn't my point.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tombola]

Understand that mate but that wasn't my point.

I was agreeing...I just didn't explain it well..

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Understand that mate but that wasn't my point.

Probably didn’t make myself clear - I was agreeing with you. They do the job because they want to, not because they have to. All of the people I was at sea with were by and large very well paid, happy, dedicated and professional. The best sailors, oddly enough, were from up the Khyber pass (now largely known as Taliban) and fiercely loyal; good people to have by your side.

 

[Gellyneck]

Except they would be liable for tax, NI etc.

But would they liable for UK tax as they would be employed by a foreign company on non-UK registered vessels? In respect of P&O Ferries would this be a UAE tax liability?

Is it just a condition placed upon the operator to gain access to UK port facilities similar to vessel condition / integrity?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}