Fines... !!!!!!!!!!! (1 Viewer)

[gus-lopez]

I don't think you need to get personal over this.

Sorry if you thought that but I wasn't.

We like to think we drive with in the speed limit here in Spain....the signs clearly states 120kph on Autovias and Autopistas....and that's why we see so many motorhomes with GB, D,F and Nl stickers on their rear....enjoying the freedom to drive at the correct speed limit....there am I tootleing along at 100kph, saving fuel and staying within the law ...so the sign states 120.... who's right and who's wrong, who drives at 120kph in a Motorhome, who's been ticketed.

& here is the link to the law ,in english ,& those with pvc's might like to dwell on the fact that they come under the second class, if you meet a pedantic GC, as only having a limit of 90kph on mways same as lorries.

Broken Link Removed

Of course signs, where required, must meet legal requirements but I wonder how accurate your assertions are? Illegal signs provide a defence against a charge of speeding as this case demonstrated several years ago.
Councils and highway departments do not fine people for speeding so that is certainly an inaccurate statement. Ergo they can hardly "take a couldn't care less attitude to the signage whilst dishing out fines"
Whilst some signage is inaccurate (which may very well be because of damage by a third party), having worked with LA traffic departments I also doubt that it is true to say that signage is illegal "in many cases". More likely to be a minority of cases.
If in doubt of the limit on a particular road then the golden rule, surely, is to err on the side of caution and slow down, isn't it?

I always am.That's why I notice these things I'm going that slow.
I especially notice on country roads where I'm as far to the left as possible, side dragging down the uncut & overhanging hedges & no chance of seeing any signs as they are covered.This isn't odd roads but many.
Councils & highways might not be actually fining people but with incorrect signage, no signage, etc; they are the cause of the police/cameras then fining motorists so therefore completely to blame & should be made liable.

There is no legal requirement for repeater warnings in 30mph restricted zones in the UK.

Yes in built up areas with street lights. In the countryside I 'm sure it is required as a single 30 sign then miles of nothing in country lanes is ridiculous. How does anyone know what is going on when the last sign you passed was so long ago you've actually forgotten? When it is 40 & miles of country lanes there are repeaters? sometimes. Foreigners have no hope.

 

[EX51SSS]

Sorry if you thought that but I wasn't.



& here is the link to the law ,in english ,& those with pvc's might like to dwell on the fact that they come under the second class, if you meet a pedantic GC, as only having a limit of 90kph on mways same as lorries.

Broken Link Removed


I always am.That's why I notice these things I'm going that slow.
I especially notice on country roads where I'm as far to the left as possible, side dragging down the uncut & overhanging hedges & no chance of seeing any signs as they are covered.This isn't odd roads but many.
Councils & highways might not be actually fining people but with incorrect signage, no signage, etc; they are the cause of the police/cameras then fining motorists so therefore completely to blame & should be made liable.


Yes in built up areas with street lights. In the countryside I 'm sure it is required as a single 30 sign then miles of nothing in country lanes is ridiculous. How does anyone know what is going on when the last sign you passed was so long ago you've actually forgotten? When it is 40 & miles of country lanes there are repeaters? sometimes. Foreigners have no hope.

Repeater signs are only required if different than 30 mph (usually in urban areas) and national speed limit..

 

[two]

It seems, to me, that there are a lot of people that ‘speed’ (exceed the local limit) because, when I am travelling at the limit, I seem to acquire a gap in front and a queue behind. I cannot tell how many are not exceeding the limit (they remain behind) but, on dual carriageways, many creep or even fly past.
I’m sure the time will come when I’m caught-out, even though I’m no “tear-away”. What bothers me more is that authorities seem to spend more money trying to catch offenders than trying to help those wanting to obey their rules. There must be several technical solutions but maybe none that can generate as much revenue.

 

[kelpie]

Funny when I said that a few months back I got quite a lot of negative reactions which resulted in me being sent to Coventry for a month because I reacted verbally to those stupid people who believe speeding is not the cause of many accidents.. Yes they are ztiion this forum...

Those will be the same people who go nuts when a vehicle speeds past their home.
The speed laws are there for a reason.
Try , like me , not to OVER react . Answer and defend your point , but you know some people on here can't let it go sometimes.
John

 

[pappajohn]

I've often seen similar statements but without any evidence to back them up.
If it is the case why don't we see far more regular police activity where significant numbers of drivers speed on a daily basis?

Do you have evidence it Isn't just a revenue generating exercise Graham ?
Thought not.

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[MR. FUSION]

Funny when I said that a few months back I got quite a lot of negative reactions which resulted in me being sent to Coventry for a month because I reacted verbally to those stupid people who believe speeding is not the cause of many accidents.. Yes they are ztiion this forum...

speed kills.... end of, only the regular law breaking idiots try and justify their selfish actions. Eventually they will be caught speeding but since apparently it is estimated 1 in 12 vehicles in the UK has an inaccurate number plate some might not. That figure suggests to me ANPR is not a replacement for proper policing of the roads.

 

[GJH]

Do you have evidence it Isn't just a revenue generating exercise Graham ?
Thought not.

Do you have evidence that it is John?
Thought not

 

[GJH]

I especially notice on country roads where I'm as far to the left as possible, side dragging down the uncut & overhanging hedges & no chance of seeing any signs as they are covered.This isn't odd roads but many.

How do you know that signs should be there if you can't see them?

 

[gus-lopez]

How do you know that signs should be there if you can't see them?

They are hidden in amongst the overgrowth with green moss on as well. I was going to take photo's of some but thought "what's the point?"
It is not only speed signs but direction & info signs are obscured.

They are meant to be visible from a distance.

Next time I'm in the UK & walking the dog I'll take photo's of them for you.

It's not just road signs but village signs . I can't understand why you don't go out & clean the green moss covered sign that's outside your house ? or people who run businesses like kennels & catteries & have a dirty ,filthy signs outside ? Why ? I rant at them all.
Why would I use a business that can't even present a clean & decent entrance? Same as why would I obey signs that aren't where they should be , are filthy & dirty not having been cleaned for months/years.? They should be done on a regular basis & if there aren't enough staff then the ones in charge should be doing it on there days off/evenings or pack the job in.

 

[glenn2926]

speed kills.... end of, only the regular law breaking idiots try and justify their selfish actions. Eventually they will be caught speeding but since apparently it is estimated 1 in 12 vehicles in the UK has an inaccurate number plate some might not. That figure suggests to me ANPR is not a replacement for proper policing of the roads.

Sorry but speed itself does not kill. If it did everyone that has flown in a plane would be dead (550 mph) all astronauts would be dead (17,000 mph) all racing drivers/riders (200mph) and many other people, me included having been a blue light driver in a previous life. It is the miss use of speed that kills. The people that stick religiously to speed limits can on occasion be the problem. EG travelling on a motorway at 70 mph in weather conditions that should indicate a slower speed.

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[MR. FUSION]

Sorry but speed itself does not kill. If it did everyone that has flown in a plane would be dead (550 mph) all astronauts would be dead (17,000 mph) all racing drivers/riders (200mph) and many other people, me included having been a blue light driver in a previous life. It is the miss use of speed that kills. The people that stick religiously to speed limits can on occasion be the problem. EG travelling on a motorway at 70 mph in weather conditions that should indicate a slower speed.

being hit by a vehicle at 20 mph compared to 40 mph makes for a big difference in injuries.

 

[old-mo]

when I am travelling at the limit, I seem to acquire a gap in front and a queue behind. I cannot tell how many are not exceeding the limit (they remain behind) but, on dual carriageways, many creep or even fly past.

I am baffled by this statement =

(Above quote from original post) = I cannot tell how many are not exceeding the limit (they remain behind).....

.If you are travelling at the limit..... surely all the cars queue`d behind you are travelling at the same speed...

And are NOT speeding...

 

[glenn2926]

being hit by a vehicle at 20 mph compared to 40 mph makes for a big difference in injuries.

I would suggest not stepping onto the road in front of a moving vehicle is the safest way of avoiding that scenario. Even if you do decide to step in front of a moving vehicle it is the impact that will hurt you.

 

[MR. FUSION]

I would suggest not stepping onto the road in front of a moving vehicle is the safest way of avoiding that scenario. Even if you do decide to step in front of a moving vehicle it is the impact that will hurt you.

You could ride a bicycle without lights instead But many people step into the road without looking these days anyway, because they are on their bloody mobiles, if road safety training even exists in schools anymore it never penetrated their brains.....

 

[bigtree]

I can’t see how the French can fine you just because they have lowered the speed limit. But the signs are still old ones.

Not on All the roads I have been on,fresh 80 Lolipops.

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[grumps147]

Sorry but speed itself does not kill. If it did everyone that has flown in a plane would be dead (550 mph) all astronauts would be dead (17,000 mph) all racing drivers/riders (200mph) and many other people, me included having been a blue light driver in a previous life. It is the miss use of speed that kills. The people that stick religiously to speed limits can on occasion be the problem. EG travelling on a motorway at 70 mph in weather conditions that should indicate a slower speed.

Hmm, can’t recall the last time on the A58 near me when I saw a plane going down it at 550mph, or some kind of spacecraft at 17,000 mph. Even a racing driver would have difficulty attaining 200 mph.
But, the d.....head driving a car at near 70mph in a 30mph area that struck a grandmother crossing the road with her young grand daughter (who died) learned quite quickly that speed kills, and that there are consequences for it.

 

[Cat53]

We were talking to a couple who had spent 5 weeks motorhoming around France. They were stopped and fined for speeding even though they weren’t...as was another GB couple....the French motorhome infront of them, but behind the first van wasn’t even stopped! Seems strange to me.

 

[GJH]

They are hidden in amongst the overgrowth with green moss on as well. I was going to take photo's of some but thought "what's the point?"
It is not only speed signs but direction & info signs are obscured.

They are meant to be visible from a distance.

Next time I'm in the UK & walking the dog I'll take photo's of them for you.

It's not just road signs but village signs . I can't understand why you don't go out & clean the green moss covered sign that's outside your house ? or people who run businesses like kennels & catteries & have a dirty ,filthy signs outside ? Why ? I rant at them all.
Why would I use a business that can't even present a clean & decent entrance? Same as why would I obey signs that aren't where they should be , are filthy & dirty not having been cleaned for months/years.? They should be done on a regular basis & if there aren't enough staff then the ones in charge should be doing it on there days off/evenings or pack the job in.

As with illegal signs, though, hidden signs are a defence as this test case proved. In fact, though, you are saying that they are so well hidden that you can see them.

I remember when I was learning to drive, the instructor told me of another learner who he had reprimanded for treating a Stop sign as a Give Way. The learner's excuse was that he had never been that way before. The instructor made the point that if you are driving somewhere that you don't know then extra caution is called for. Isn't the same true if driving along a road with overgrown hedges, especially where one expects that a sign might be hidden?

Don't take photos of such signs, report them to the authority (council or Highways England) with responsibility for overseeing roadside planting maintenance.

 

[WESTY66]

Even a racing driver would have difficulty attaining 200 mph.

REALLY??? Rossi, Marquez, Dovi and Crutchlow do it week in week out.......ON TWO WHEELS!!! When was the last time you watched a race???

 

[MR. FUSION]

REALLY??? Rossi, Marquez, Dovi and Crutchlow do it week in week out.......ON TWO WHEELS!!! When was the last time you watched a race???

None of that is of consequence to the dead child.

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[2657]

In a literal sense speed in itself does not kill, it cannot, it is an abstract concept of measurement, but the misuse of speed involving very physical objects such as motor vehicles, bicycles , can and does kill and cause serious injury to many.

The excuse that 'speed does not kill' is simply that, an excuse that speed freaks use to excuse the misuse of speed, keep excessive speed in it's proper place......not on a public road that others share.

 

[WESTY66]

None of that is of consequence to the dead child.

Why are you twisting everything?? I was just merely replying to your assumption that racing drivers don't reach 200 mph, they do, very often, and guess what??? Most of them are still eating their breakfast this morning. Speed is NOT necessarily the primary factor of death although it has a LOT to do with the severity of any injury. Doing 40mph down an A ROAD is not dangerous, do you concur??
However doing 40mph down the same road and a cyclist loses control in front of you and you run over the cyclist and injures them badly or even worse, is it the fact you was doing 40mph the primary cause, or was it the cyclist losing control? The speed was not the primary cause. Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

[Colintheolder]

Ref fines, I went through the Dartford tunnel last month, forgot to pay within the 36 hrs, but did after 48hrs online and the £3 was excepted. I realise I was outside the payment time and 14 days later got a FPT. so online again to pay the £35 fine (it says + the crossing fee, which I did again). the system would only accept £3. following day,I rang and spoke to a human, who stated that as I'd never transgrest before and paid fairly promptly the FPT was already withdrawn and as I'd paid the fee twice I am now in credit for one crossing. end result was good, but they didn't tell me the FPT was withdrawn until I contacted them.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Why are you twisting everything?? I was just merely replying to your assumption that racing drivers don't reach 200 mph, they do, very often, and guess what??? Most of them are still eating their breakfast this morning. Speed is NOT necessarily the primary factor of death although it has a LOT to do with the severity of any injury. Doing 40mph down an A ROAD is not dangerous, do you concur??
However doing 40mph down the same road and a cyclist loses control in front of you and you run over the cyclist and injures them badly or even worse, is it the fact you was doing 40mph the primary cause, or was it the cyclist losing control? The speed was not the primary cause. Do you see where I'm coming from?

I didn't quote the 200mph figure. I would slow down for the cyclist anyway so probably would not be doing 40 mph. In any case it would depend on the speed limit, road conditions and oncoming traffic.

 

[grumps147]

REALLY??? Rossi, Marquez, Dovi and Crutchlow do it week in week out.......ON TWO WHEELS!!! When was the last time you watched a race???

BSB at Oulton Park, a race track. Yes, there are road races, but the roads are closed to all other traffic, including pedestrians, or they would not be allowed to take place.

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[RowleyBirkinQC]

In a literal sense speed in itself does not kill, it cannot, it is an abstract concept of measurement, but the misuse of speed involving very physical objects such as motor vehicles, bicycles , can and does kill and cause serious injury to many.

The excuse that 'speed does not kill' is simply that, an excuse that speed freaks use to excuse the misuse of speed, keep excessive speed in it's proper place......not on a public road that others share.

It’s not speed, it’s the failing to stop in time that’s the issue!

 

[gus-lopez]

But many people step into the road without looking these days anyway, because they are on their bloody mobiles, if ro

That's what paying attention & the air horns are for. I just know they are going to do it so get in first.

We were talking to a couple who had spent 5 weeks motorhoming around France. They were stopped and fined for speeding even though they weren’t...as was another GB couple....the French motorhome infront of them, but behind the first van wasn’t even stopped! Seems strange to me.

Scammers. pepper spray is too good for them.Especially if they do not accept the photo evidence from the onboard cameras. That why it is good to have them.

In fact, though, you are saying that they are so well hidden that you can see them.

They can only be spotted if you are not concentrating on the road but looking in the overgrowth most of the time or , as I said , walking the dog. At normal speeds they are impossible to see.

Don't take photos of such signs, report them to the authority (council or Highways England) with responsibility for overseeing roadside planting maintenance.

There aren't enough hours in the day for the amount that are hidden, not cleaned, missing , obscured by overgrown vegetation, etc.

* additionally whilst I have no problem reporting the odd one why aren't the police reporting it on a daily basis ? They are driving past the same illegible signs that I am . If it was me I'd be reporting them daily as part of my job & pointing out I can't be fining people for offences that they can't know they have committed ? I'm already paying people to do a job properly ,that isn't being done, so I'm not going to be doing it myself unless I'm being paid.

 

[two]

I am baffled by this statement =

(Above quote from original post) = I cannot tell how many are not exceeding the limit (they remain behind).....

.If you are travelling at the limit..... surely all the cars queue`d behind you are travelling at the same speed...

And are NOT speeding...

So true,
but I get the distinct feeling that they'd rather me go faster.
- and how did they catch-up in the first place?

 

[two]

You could ride a bicycle without lights instead But many people step into the road without looking these days anyway, because they are on their bloody mobiles, if road safety training even exists in schools anymore it never penetrated their brains.....

Surely that is only after the accident?

 

[grumps147]

Using our roads are many cyclists and pedestrians. Quite a number of these do not have a full picture of what is around them for a variety of reasons. Perhaps a few on here would ban them from ever attempting to cross a road in order that they can choose whatever speed they want to drive as safe, and then blame everyone else when it goes wrong.

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