Exploded battery, new one to buy (1 Viewer)

[Bre]

Hello again everyone.
Although there has been much talk about leisure batteries I am trying to see if I can get any agreement on something of which I have read two different opinions.
I have a 1996 Hymer so I suppose that at production time it would have been lead acid batteries, but it sits next to the wife, and that one blew up while sitting in the drive I am a bit hesitant about getting another exploding battery lest someone thinks i am trying to get rid of herself.
I was going to purchase an AGM battery but then I read that it needs a higher charging rate than an older MH has or probably would have been available in 1996 and I might need to change the charging system while others do not mention that.
Any thoughts? At least on the subject.

 

[two]

Exploding battery?
That sounds useful.
Where can I get one from?

 

[Geo]

i.'d be looking at the cause before trying to cure the unknown
gassing usualy due to overcharging is one element
the second requirement is a spark and its the sparks cause and source that has me puzzled

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[Bre]

.

 

[Bre]

Exploding battery?
That sounds useful.
Where can I get one from?

I suppose the first step would the be buy a used motorhome, as you can never be sure what was installed or when or how it's been treated.
A word of caution if you do decide to buy that type of special battery, is that they make a right mess and do to take a lot of cleaning up.

 

[Bre]

i.'d be looking at the cause before trying to cure the unknown
gassing usualy due to overcharging is one element
the second requirement is a spark and its the sparks cause and source that has me puzzled

That does sound very reasonable it's just that I don't know how to figure out what caused the problem.
We were sitting in the house and we heard a bang outside and then later we noticed stuff leaking out underneath the motorhome and I went inside and found the battery cover off and things all over the place and acid over quite a few things.
it is hooked up to a solar trickle charger but I have no way of knowing how good or bad it is. I do wonder that that had something to do with it.

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[tacr2man]

The battery that went bang , must have had a shorting connection , or a relay or something similar nearby , and was gassing due to another reason to get that result , so reinforce the previous post about sorting the cause .

 

[two]

I think you've been rather unlucky, but try to find out why, to avoid a repeat. It may have damaged whatever was charging at the time by shorting it, so I'd start by looking there.
I hope you washed-off all the acid thoroughly. It will slowly eat through material and ruin them.

 

[Bre]

The battery that went bang , must have had a shorting connection , or a relay or something similar nearby , and was gassing due to another reason to get that result , so reinforce the previous post about sorting the cause .

At the time it was on the solar panel trickle charger so my guess was that there was some kind of problem from it with overcharging, however unlikely that may seem but as I do not understand the system that is installed I think the safest thing would be to unplug it from the solar trickle charger.

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[Geo]

How long after your last journey home did it go bang? soon or had it been stood a while

 

[Bre]

How long after your last journey home did it go bang? soon or had it been stood a while

It had been stood for a couple of months.

 

[Bre]

I think you've been rather unlucky, but try to find out why, to avoid a repeat. It may have damaged whatever was charging at the time by shorting it, so I'd start by looking there.
I hope you washed-off all the acid thoroughly. It will slowly eat through material and ruin them.

I poured a lot of water into the battery compartment and put some baking soda in with it and washed off the framework underneath as it also had acid on it and also on the inside dash.

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[PhilandMena]

Bad Luck. You need to establish what went wrong so it does not happen again. (Just before I go any further I can guarantee that your going to get a shed load of different estimates of what went wrong and what you should do with many of them being wrong too. But all with good intent!). If I have interpreted your post correctly the L.A. battery that exploded was the one fitted in or around 1996. That's a 22 year old battery ???? A world record me thinks so assume the battery had been replaced. Do you have any idea how old the battery was that failed ? How has it been used? Are they checked and maintained ? Is your charger method a modern intelligent charging system ? Do you have vent tubes vented to direct gasses out of the habitation area. Anyway, you should find this attachment a good starting point to establish what has gone wrong and enable you to take corrective action to prevent repetition.

 

[Bre]

Bad Luck. You need to establish what went wrong so it does not happen again. (Just before I go any further I can guarantee that your going to get a shed load of different estimates of what went wrong and what you should do with many of them being wrong too. But all with good intent!). If I have interpreted your post correctly the L.A. battery that exploded was the one fitted in or around 1996. That's a 22 year old battery ???? A world record me thinks so assume the battery had been replaced. Do you have any idea how old the battery was that failed ? How has it been used? Are they checked and maintained ? Is your charger method a modern intelligent charging system ? Do you have vent tubes vented to direct gasses out of the habitation area. Anyway, you should find this attachment a good starting point to establish what has gone wrong and enable you to take corrective action to prevent repetition.

I do not think it was the original battery, that one would have been a wind-up model, I am saying that should I go lead acid again as that was what was standard at the time, or will the charging system be fine for an AGM or gel, not that I want to spend the £££ on a gel. Or anything else, for that matter.
It is vented, there is a tube that runs underneath and the acid leaked out that hole, I have no understanding of the solar charging system so it may be intelligent, but I am not. I am thinking of replacing what the solar panels feed into with a new converter/inverter what ever it is, just in case that one was faulty, as it looks new but very cheap.
Thank you for the attachment.

 

[Neckender]

@Bre Have a read of this as there’s loads of info on different batteries and chargers. http://aandncaravanservices.co.uk/

John.

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[PhilandMena]

Lead Acid and Gel batteries are generally very safe in Motorhomes. (Gel batteries are expensive and need a specific charging regime to correctly maintain). I have not included A G M as some new findings/recommendations are suggesting they are not what they are made out to be with some big manufacturers no longer installing them in new cars and some speculation about them causing damage to charging systems.
As you vehicle is 1996 I would guess that you would be safe with Lead Acid. I suspect your on board charger is only set up for lead acid batteries and is charging both habitation and cab battery and if this is so This is your best course of action. However, this does not explain why your battery exploded and you need to get to the bottom of this before replacing with another battery. Do you know how old the battery was that exploded? How often did you check the fluid level and did it need topping up ? Have you ever checked the voltage going into your leisure battery with a volt meter ? both from the on board charger and the solar panel. around 14.4 V for bulk charging and 13.7 V for float charging. Is the their any metal near the positive terminal of the leisure battery (it's probably in a box I would think !)
I would do a little more digging if I were you before spending your hard earned cash on another battery. I'm unable to comment on your Solar panel regulator but you should be able to measure it's voltage going to you battery and then understand if it's working ok or not.

 

[Bre]

Lead Acid and Gel batteries are generally very safe in Motorhomes. (Gel batteries are expensive and need a specific charging regime to correctly maintain). I have not included A G M as some new findings/recommendations are suggesting they are not what they are made out to be with some big manufacturers no longer installing them in new cars and some speculation about them causing damage to charging systems.
As you vehicle is 1996 I would guess that you would be safe with Lead Acid. I suspect your on board charger is only set up for lead acid batteries and is charging both habitation and cab battery and if this is so This is your best course of action. However, this does not explain why your battery exploded and you need to get to the bottom of this before replacing with another battery. Do you know how old the battery was that exploded? How often did you check the fluid level and did it need topping up ? Have you ever checked the voltage going into your leisure battery with a volt meter ? both from the on board charger and the solar panel. around 14.4 V for bulk charging and 13.7 V for float charging. Is the their any metal near the positive terminal of the leisure battery (it's probably in a box I would think !)
I would do a little more digging if I were you before spending your hard earned cash on another battery. I'm unable to comment on your Solar panel regulator but you should be able to measure it's voltage going to you battery and then understand if it's working ok or not.

The battery was a maintenance free battery, so I did not check it further.
I have not measured the volts coming in yet, but I will do and report back.
There is another battery that has been wired in and I have removed that as it was rubbish with the caps not closing on the cells, and the box for the exploding battery is in a well in the floor behind the front wheel and next to the passenger seat on a RHD Hymer 584.
There were quite a few things wrong as far as how it was set up, I have been working my way through them, but the charge coming into the battery was down the list, as I thought things like no water being pumped, no heat and such were a priority. And the wrong regulator on the propane tanks. Little deadly things like that. I had not thoguht of the battery being a bomb up until that point, as as we were not taking it our until the other things were fixed.....
And why is it that a NCC Class A lead acid is more than an AGM Class A???

 

[pappajohn]

Have a read through the last ten years worth of posts and see how many have had a battery explode.
I would put it down to sheer bad luck and a one off and just replace like for like.
Batteries don't explode every day so don't go to the added expense of changing battery and charger type just because this one went bang.

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[PhilandMena]

The battery was a maintenance free battery, so I did not check it further.
I have not measured the volts coming in yet, but I will do and report back.
There is another battery that has been wired in and I have removed that as it was rubbish with the caps not closing on the cells, and the box for the exploding battery is in a well in the floor behind the front wheel and next to the passenger seat on a RHD Hymer 584.
There were quite a few things wrong as far as how it was set up, I have been working my way through them, but the charge coming into the battery was down the list, as I thought things like no water being pumped, no heat and such were a priority. And the wrong regulator on the propane tanks. Little deadly things like that. I had not thoguht of the battery being a bomb up until that point, as as we were not taking it our until the other things were fixed.....
And why is it that a NCC Class A lead acid is more than an AGM Class A???

And I thought it was only a battery issue LOL. Sounds as if you have a bit of a nightmare on your hands but working through it. Which NCC Lead Acid and AGM batteries are you referring to. It does sound odd. I would ignore the NCC verified list as it has now been exposed as nothing more than a conn.
http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

 

[Bre]

And I thought it was only a battery issue LOL. Sounds as if you have a bit of a nightmare on your hands but working through it. Which NCC Lead Acid and AGM batteries are you referring to. It does sound odd. I would ignore the NCC verified list as it has now been exposed as nothing more than a conn.
http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

I don't think I can go AGM or gel with an older charging system, at least from what I have read on here, and the Exide ET650 seems a good way to go as we would tend to be off grid. I just need to find it local so I can get it at a good price, as shipping from Tayna and others seems a bit high.
Or possibly the EXV110 Enduroline, but I cannot find out much about it online.
The MH wasn't a total nightmare, but as we got it for about £4k under what I see the Hymer normally go for, I was happy to put £1k into it. Okay, not happy, I am not usually happy spending money, but some of it was simply poor maintenance, like the water problem was finally traced to a line plugged with silt under the Truma heater, and installing a 50mbar regulator sorted out the heater problem. Getting the 50mbar regulator in line was the biggest problem I have had, with the connections being a lot of headaches.
The battery was the big surprise, and reading and learning about the different types, etc, wow....and let's not even get started on solar....

 

[PhilandMena]

I don't think I can go AGM or gel with an older charging system, at least from what I have read on here, and the Exide ET650 seems a good way to go as we would tend to be off grid. I just need to find it local so I can get it at a good price, as shipping from Tayna and others seems a bit high.
The MH wasn't a total nightmare, but as we got it for about £4k under what I see the Hymer normally go for, I was happy to put £1k into it. Okay, not happy, I am not usually happy spending money, but some of it was simply poor maintenance, like the water problem was finally traced to a line plugged with silt under the Truma heater, and installing a 50mbar regulator sorted out the heater problem. Getting the 50mbar regulator in line was the biggest problem I have had, with the connections being a lot of headaches.
The battery was the big surprise, and reading and learning about the different types, etc, wow....and let's not even get started on solar....

Agreed, stick with Lead Acid. I have just purchased and installed 2 x Exide ET650 Leisure batteries. I think they might be the best Lead Acid batteries out there at this moment in time and weighing 27KG each is a big chunk of lead. Tayna are a complete waste of time IMO. I returned both the batteries they sent me as they were down to 12.4V when I tested immediately after arrival. I suspect they expect most users to just fit and connect new batteries without checking levels and voltage. These must have been lying in stock for a very long time and not subject to periodic checks. I purchased locally and saved the difference in delivery price. You might have some caravan or battery dealers near you I would try them before Tayna. You may want to check if your charger is man enough to cope with 2 x 100AH batteries plus what ever size your cab battery is, assuming it charges both sets. Best of Luck

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[Bre]

Agreed, stick with Lead Acid. I have just purchased and installed 2 x Exide ET650 Leisure batteries. I think they might be the best Lead Acid batteries out there at this moment in time and weighing 27KG each is a big chunk of lead. Tayna are a complete waste of time IMO. I returned both the batteries they sent me as they were down to 12.4V when I tested immediately after arrival. I suspect they expect most users to just fit and connect new batteries without checking levels and voltage. These must have been lying in stock for a very long time and not subject to periodic checks. I purchased locally and saved the difference in delivery price. You might have some caravan or battery dealers near you I would try them before Tayna. You may want to check if your charger is man enough to cope with 2 x 100AH batteries plus what ever size your cab battery is, assuming it charges both sets. Best of Luck

Thanks, I enjoyed reading your thread from earlier in the year. I have no idea how to check it it can handle charging 2 batteries, but I will search and see. Thanks

 

[PhilandMena]

Thanks, I enjoyed reading your thread from earlier in the year. I have no idea how to check it it can handle charging 2 batteries, but I will search and see. Thanks

Your charger should state its performance criteria either on it, or with any information that came with it. You could always google the name and perhaps get the details you need.

 

[ymfb]

I’m not entirely sure the old vehicles are unable to charge an AGM battery, I fitted one to my 1978 Yamaha RD 250 without issue.

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[Wildbill]

Think it's just a oneoff but I would give everything a good spray Down with a fairly strong salution of bycarb and any whare it foams pay pertticuler attention to as that is acid keep spraying till there's no reaction
This will nutriliza the acid then wash down with fresh water
Bill

 

[Bre]

Your charger should state its performance criteria either on it, or with any information that came with it. You could always google the name and perhaps get the details you need.

I have an Elektroblock EBL 104, which appears to be rated for 10 amps, so no more than one 100Ah battery.
So that's another thing the previous owner did wrong, as he had 2 batteries hooked up, one was in the correct battery bay and exploded, and one that was under the settee, unsecured.

 

[PhilandMena]

I have an Elektroblock EBL 104, which appears to be rated for 10 amps, so no more than one 100Ah battery.
So that's another thing the previous owner did wrong, as he had 2 batteries hooked up, one was in the correct battery bay and exploded, and one that was under the settee, unsecured.

OK! So if my logic makes sense, you may be OK as if you never let your two 100 Ah discharge below 50% (which is recommended) you have in effect 100 AH of battery to charge and you may get away with your existing charger? your cab battery will be charged separately (not at the same time) so you should be OK with this too. I'm not sure if that is right, just my logic and I think a quick phone/email call to Electroblock will confirm one way or another. If you do up-rate your charger make sure it gives you the option of using any of the 3 types of batteries and can deal with the total capacity. Oh! don't forget to secure that second battery and make sure it has a 25 Amp fuse near the positive terminal.

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[Bre]

OK! So if my logic makes sense, you may be OK as if you never let your two 100 Ah discharge below 50% (which is recommended) you have in effect 100 AH of battery to charge and you may get away with your existing charger? your cab battery will be charged separately (not at the same time) so you should be OK with this too. I'm not sure if that is right, just my logic and I think a quick phone/email call to Electroblock will confirm one way or another. If you do up-rate your charger make sure it gives you the option of using any of the 3 types of batteries and can deal with the total capacity. Oh! don't forget to secure that second battery and make sure it has a 25 Amp fuse near the positive terminal.

I will do, I think I will order one ET650 from Amazon even though £134 as that seems to be the cheapest, but the main thing is their return policy is great, so if it arrives damaged or low voltage I can return it.
You may well be correct on the charging thing, and if I upgrade (later) I will make sure it can handle a gel battery at least.

 

[PhilandMena]

If your going to have 2 leisure batteries, Ideally you should have a matched pair. If your other battery is older and less than 100AH it will pull down the new battery so you end up with two batteries in the same state. Something for you to think about. If the older battery is OK and 100 AH Lead Acid you should be OK. If you do decide to get 2 new batteries make sure you state ' a matched pair' when you place your order as this has a specific meaning in the battery industry and your seller should know exactly what your asking for and give you 2 identical batteries. Tell him you want them with the same manufacturing date and watch him squirm as they do not 'put the date of manufacture on the batteries (LOL) However, they are Exide and they produce there own batteries so you should be getting top of the range Lead acid battery.

 

[Bre]

If your going to have 2 leisure batteries, Ideally you should have a matched pair. If your other battery is older and less than 100AH it will pull down the new battery so you end up with two batteries in the same state. Something for you to think about. If the older battery is OK and 100 AH Lead Acid you should be OK. If you do decide to get 2 new batteries make sure you state ' a matched pair' when you place your order as this has a specific meaning in the battery industry and your seller should know exactly what your asking for and give you 2 identical batteries. Tell him you want them with the same manufacturing date and watch him squirm as they do not 'put the date of manufacture on the batteries (LOL) However, they are Exide and they produce there own batteries so you should be getting top of the range Lead acid battery.

Thanks for that, I searched for a supplier that would do that in Birmingham and came up with no one, so I think a matched pair seems out of the question at this time, as even the big suppliers (like Tayna) won't guarantee anything.
Perhaps an ebay seller, but again, the returns would be a problem.
Maybe I will not order from Amazon and try to find someone that will supply a matched pair....
edit-I have found this, so it may be a bad idea to have 2? -
"So all charge on the Elektroblock (plus 13amp power for the Fridge) goes in through fairly low rated connectors which can get overloaded if a large battery bank is fitted and/or the batteries are allowed to deteriorate.
Note also that the built in mains charger is very low power, just 10amps. A second indicator that it was designed to support no more than a single 100Ah battery.
Thirdly, the cabling thickness also reflects the fact that, like most Motorhomes of the era, were only expected to have a single battery from the Factory.
These units are particularly vulnerable to damage from an overlarge battery bank.
This 'weakness' was recognised by Schaudt back in 1998 when the introduced the more modern EBL 99 with much more capable, 50amp +, wiring and connectors which were relocated to the rear of the Units."

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