A frames update May 2018 gov. UK (1 Viewer)

[scotjimland]

None of which are braked A Frames

Correct, A frames for recovery are not braked ,

I was replying to your comment, " Towing Dollies are used for recovery not A Frames -"

you didn't say braked A frames .. non braked A frames have been used for years and not just by recovery people..

I also experience with using a BRAKED Car-a-Tow A frame.. pulled this little Fiat behind my RV ,

The Car a Tow system has a frame bolted to the car chassis under the engine with a round bar out front that the frame is attached to .. it does not use the towing eye .

sold it in 2012 when I also sold the RV .

You can see the round bar that the A frame clips onto in this photo

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Struggling to see how you view his real world experience as being anecdotal.

His experience is data based, albeit based on a sample of one.

Clearly, this wouldn’t pass a test of statistical significance but given the complete lack of data around failures associated with A-Frames it has to be given credence.

Furthermore, whilst it can be argued that this point is anecdotal, we have here, on this forum, a significant population of A-Frame users none of whom have reported failures.

This can be considered as ‘field testing’. I think it would be fair to say that if field testing resulted in failures, it wouldn’t be long before legislation was put in place to prevent the use of A-Frames.

Ian

You make a valid point regarding the devices. I don't think anyone has suggested that they fail though. The first time one does in the UK is when the issue will be settled once and for all by the courts.

My questions were more to do with the long term effects on the vehicles to which the devices are attached.

Nobody's real world anecdotal experience can produce any meaningful answer to that question.

Even the manufacturers can only offer a best guess until and unless they've had some cars back to strip down and test.

 

[Chris]

I have always said they are legal.

This just proves it.

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[Deleted member 29692]

I have always said they are legal.

This just proves it.

Even in Spain?

 

[Larrynwin]

 

[olley]

It was Brian James who had the folding drawbar, I had one, unfortunately mine broke at the pivot point which was a weakness, BJ sent me a new strengthen part foc, but you couldn't then fold it and lock it in place.

As they had the strengthen part in stock, I assume this was a known problem.

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[Mikey RV]

I am still going to get one fitted to my IQ..

 

[PeteH]

Even in Spain?

If you see my quote ref; the "Treaty of Rome". IN THEORY, the answer SHOULD be yes. BUT as we all know, the UK are the only one`s daft enough to follow the "agreements" everyone else in the EU, appears NOT to.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

If you see my quote ref; the "Treaty of Rome". IN THEORY, the answer SHOULD be yes. BUT as we all know, the UK are the only one`s daft enough to follow the "agreements" everyone else in the EU, appears NOT to.

This idea that if something is legal (or not defined but tolerated ) in your country then you can do it anywhere in the EU is utter bollox and always has been.

Two examples:

A Dutchman smoking a spliff in a cafe in Basingstoke. It's legal for him to do that in Holland so can he do it here?

A German doing 150mph on the M40. It's legal for him to do that on a motorway in Germany so can he do it here?

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[Charlie]

I am still going to get one fitted to my IQ..

 

[Charlie]

Your Honour you see before you Charlie.

The accused is charged with using an A frame in contravention with no laws. That is the case for the prosecution Mlud...

Take him down says the judge and disqualify him from practising law. After all there are NO laws against using an A frame. Oh and give Charlie a large sum of money for being mal accused of an offence which there are NO laws against it.

 

[Larrynwin]

View attachment 231222 View attachment 231223

You need a little extra bit Charlie, a jockey wheel to prevent a frame from digging in should it become unhitched , however unlikely.
I’ve got one on mine , also helps driving up to hitch up.

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[PeteH]

This idea that if something is legal (or not defined but tolerated ) in your country then you can do it anywhere in the EU is utter bollox and always has been.

Two examples:

A Dutchman smoking a spliff in a cafe in Basingstoke. It's legal for him to do that in Holland so can he do it here?

A German doing 150mph on the M40. It's legal for him to do that on a motorway in Germany so can he do it here?

It was an "illustration", of the "intent" of the said treaty, ref; the quote. I fail to see the parallels?.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

It was an "illustration", of the "intent" of the said treaty, ref; the quote. I fail to see the parallels?.

The basic concept - if something is legal for you to do in your home country you can do it anywhere in the EU - is not workable.

It never was and it never will be.

You can't just pick and choose what it applies to for convenience, it applies to everything or it applies to nothing.

 

[PeteH]

You can't just pick and choose what it applies to for convenience, it applies to everything or it applies to nothing.

Err?, Why not?. The REST of the EU does it?.

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[Charlie]

I think everyone here knows the laws in different countries apply only in that respective country....
That said the laws that are supposed to apply to the EU are a farce.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Err?, Why not?. The REST of the EU does it?.

Not on this issue they don't.

In fact the only examples I've ever heard of people trying to apply this clause are British people demanding that they be allowed to do things that are specifically not permitted in the country they are visiting

 

[p-c]

Hi
So people using a trailer in France etc should get it "MOT,d" and have its own registration?
Regards
p-c Pro A-frame

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[Deleted member 29692]

Hi
So people using a trailer in France etc should get it "MOT,d" and have its own registration?
Regards
p-c Pro A-frame

If you're driving a French registered vehicle and towing a trailer with a gross weight over 500kg then yes the trailer does have to be registered and also separately insured.

I don't believe this applies to foreign registered vehicles visiting France.

 

[p-c]

Thanks Nick for clarifying that.
So it is ok to use something in France if it is ok in the UK.
Regards
p-c

 

[Chris]

Just tell the French or Spanish cops to sod off

If your French or Spanish is good enough you could also ask whether they have anything better to do?

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[Deleted member 29692]

Thanks Nick for clarifying that.
So it is ok to use something in France if it is ok in the UK.
Regards
p-c

Of course it is as long as French law doesn't specifically prohibit it.

Just like if you're French it's OK to do something in the UK that's allowed in France as long as UK law doesn't specifically prohibit it.

Good effort but you'll have to try harder than that

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Just tell the French or Spanish cops to sod off

If your French or Spanish is good enough you could also ask whether they have anything better to do?

Try this:

Pourquoi ne pas vous enculer et attraper de vrais criminels vous avez sauté peu de merde

or if in Spain,

¿Por qué no te escapas y atrapas a algunos criminales reales? Saltaste mierda


If anyone does try it could you get someone to video it so we can all have a laugh please

 

[PeteH]

Not on this issue they don't.

In fact the only examples I've ever heard of people trying to apply this clause are British people demanding that they be allowed to do things that are specifically not permitted in the country they are visiting

What "A" Frames?.

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[PeteH]

I don't believe this applies to foreign registered vehicles visiting France.

Which reinforces my Earlier point?.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Which reinforces my Earlier point?.

No it doesn’t.

French law says the requirement for trailers to be registered doesn’t apply to foreign vehicles.

French law also says, or is in the process of changing to say, that A frames are not legal for anyone apart from recovery

 

[busby]

I questioned the technicians at Toyota Worcester about figment of an A frame kit to our IQ. They could not see a problem anymore than fitting a tow bar to the rear.

But to be safe they put me in touch with Toyota UK who further passed the specific questions on to the technical department.

There is a huge difference between a recovery frame and a purpose designed A frame set designed and manufactured for the job specifically ...

They to said NO problems and my warranty ( 5) years would not be affected.

These systems are specifically designed for the job and to question the integrity one must have a qualification or degree in mechanical engineering like the designers or the opinion is worthless.

Once again the question of towing one car with another in certain country’s is voiced by those seeking to frighten. Now I can understand getting nicked for towing with a rope but surely with a purpose designed well engineered device what ca be the problem ?? I would bet a good legal council would tear a prosecution to bits. My daughter is legal council by the way.

Every single time the A frame is mentioned it degenerates into a debate with the usual people hacking A frame users off by peddling the same old rubbish. It’s almost funny except for those asking real legitimate questions and have no experience must get frightened to death.

Me ?
Well I’ve asked the manufacturer of the car if it’s ok and would it invalidate my warranty... No

I’ve made sure I have full confirmation from not only the insurers of the towing vehicle AND the the insurers of the towed vehicle if they have any problems or doubts. NO....I have this confirmed in writing and carry copies.

As for legality.
Unless it’s against the law it is legal by default. One simply cannot be prosecuted unless a law is in place and written down. In certain country’s there are laws written down but any law is challengeable and bloody challenge I would in the VERY SLIM chance I got pulled...

But for the benefit of a peaceful time Spain and others I will simply avoid.

It's definately illegal in Spain to tow a vehicle unless all it's wheels are off the ground.
BUSBY

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[Ambilkate]

It is so lovely to see a thread were everyone is getting o n so nicely keep it up fellas, I admit was a bit hesitant to post such a thread about tow cars and towing loll, i can see I won't be needing any popcorn for this thread x thankyou
Regards Kate

 

[Geo]

Will these new regs affect the price of Popcorn

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Will these new regs affect the price of Popcorn

Does anyone know if popcorn is actually legal in Spain?

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