Deals mot garages and other fatherless persons. (1 Viewer)

[Barclaybasher]

I don’t understand why people are willing to pay such large sums for older motorhomes but at the same time am glad that they do

I have a 1991 Eriba on a Renault Trafic base and a 2001 A Class on a Ducato Maxi base

Neither have been welded, nor need welding

Old vans rule

 

[maxi77]

As far as I am aware but you need to check with citizens advice or a lawyer but any claim from you has to be against the dealer, the MOT station has no contractual relationship with you. You can and should however pass on the information to VOSA so they can decide whether to take action against the MOT station. Good luck

 

[PeteH]

Writing to something like Watchdog, with all the pictures and the MOT evidence. Might be useful, if not to you, others might be made more aware of the potential pitfalls and avoid or mittigate your experience.

I am currently restoring a 1971 Triumph Convertible and, bad as it was, there is more good steel in it`s Chassis and Bodywork!

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[mfw]

Think if you had got an independant assesment of vehicle by the AA or someone similar at the time the problems probably would of got spotted or you would of had a leg to stand on this mot.

Personally i would not trust a used vehicle dealer anymore than a private person but as others have said that will not have rotted to that extent in a year - i'd go to citizens advise speak to them they may be able to help point you in right direction

 

[BILL 875]

I know this will not help but i would never buy a vehicle that has spent years in Scotland the amount of salt they use on the road kills almost everything, i once saw a picture of a 10 year old Toyota Land Cruiser rear axle, the cast iron had rotted through.
Bill

 

[MikeD]

I know this will not help but i would never buy a vehicle that has spent years in Scotland the amount of salt they use on the road kills almost everything, i once saw a picture of a 10 year old Toyota Land Cruiser rear axle, the cast iron had rotted through.
Bill

I am amazed that they are already putting salt on the roads around here and I live near London.

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[Geo]

My goodness I was in favor of reinstating THE DEATH SENTENCE
Having read the comments on here I see now how and why it got abolished
I dont believe anyone on here is qualified to express an opinion on corrosion how it happens how it is detected
What steps a MoT tester is allowed to do if its suspected
before the welder set about the vehicle with his de slagging hammer I guarantee 98% was not visible at the time of test
I can confirm that numerous testers have been struck off and lost their jobs for exposing that mount of corrosion
The testers first weapon in detection is his eyes, second is thumb and finger pressure third is a plastic corrosion assessment tool
(see pic) and he better have a good reason to use it, it must also be used in the precise manner as specified in the testing manual
it has a plastic head primarily used for "sounding" for corrosion and an aluminium shaft for scraping underseal only
More than one tester has been struck off for making a hole that matches perfectly to the shaft shape and size of the shaft
deemed excessive and incorrect use of the tool outside the permitted scope
Of course the corrosion has not happend in 12 months is been there hiding behind underseal possibly for the last 10 to 12 years
it will for sure have been over coated and disguised by previous owners many times during that period.
The proposed welder/ repairer had absolutely no need to destroy the ares affected to such a degree, he could have easily quoted
from what he could see and his past experience, I know I certainly could. it was done for dramatic effect me thinks to justify the quote
And lastly the official time period for complaining to VOSA about shall we call it "missed or undetected corrosion" is wait for it--------------------------------------
3 MONTHS after test date .
Vosa have declared previously unseen corrosion can suddenly appear to the eye in such a short period and will not entertain
any complaints after that period,
In any case they would want to see the corrosion as the tester would have seen it not after the Hulk had set about it
with a hammer.
Grossly unfair comments in my opinion and as usual the tester is damned if he does and damned if he dont
and if the Mot station or Dealer does contact Jim I would suggest he remove the names ASAP.
Pic 1 Correct use of tool
Pic 2 Prodding Sackable incorrect use of tool unless scraping underseal
Pic 3 Slag Hammer for removing welding slag or demolition of corroded vehicles

 

[Northernraider]

I know this will not help but i would never buy a vehicle that has spent years in Scotland the amount of salt they use on the road kills almost everything, i once saw a picture of a 10 year old Toyota Land Cruiser rear axle, the cast iron had rotted through.
Bill

I've lived on Scotland all my life and never had a car anywhere near that rotten.

It's got sod all to do with where it's come from

 

[Barclaybasher]

My goodness I was in favor of reinstating THE DEATH SENTENCE
Having read the comments on here I see now how and why it got abolished
I dont believe anyone on here is qualified to express an opinion on corrosion how it happens how it is detected
What steps a MoT tester is allowed to do if its suspected
before the welder set about the vehicle with his de slagging hammer I guarantee 98% was not visible at the time of test
I can confirm that numerous testers have been struck off and lost their jobs for exposing that mount of corrosion
The testers first weapon in detection is his eyes, second is thumb and finger pressure third is a plastic corrosion assessment tool
(see pic) and he better have a good reason to use it, it must also be used in the precise manner as specified in the testing manual
it has a plastic head primarily used for "sounding" for corrosion and an aluminium shaft for scraping underseal only
More than one tester has been struck off for making a hole that matches perfectly to the shaft shape and size of the shaft
deemed excessive and incorrect use of the tool outside the permitted scope
Of course the corrosion has not happend in 12 months is been there hiding behind underseal possibly for the last 10 to 12 years
it will for sure have been over coated and disguised by previous owners many times during that period.
The proposed welder/ repairer had absolutely no need to destroy the ares affected to such a degree, he could have easily quoted
from what he could see and his past experience, I know I certainly could. it was done for dramatic effect me thinks to justify the quote
And lastly the official time period for complaining to VOSA about shall we call it "missed or undetected corrosion" is wait for it--------------------------------------
3 MONTHS after test date .
Vosa have declared previously unseen corrosion can suddenly appear to the eye in such a short period and will not entertain
any complaints after that period,
In any case they would want to see the corrosion as the tester would have seen it not after the Hulk had set about it
with a hammer.
Grossly unfair comments in my opinion and as usual the tester is damned if he does and damned if he dont
and if the Mot station or Dealer does contact Jim I would suggest he remove the names ASAP.
Pic 1 Correct use of tool
Pic 2 Prodding Sackable incorrect use of tool unless scraping underseal
Pic 3 Slag Hammer for removing welding slag or demolition of corroded vehicles

Thanks

Appreciate your professional view and comments but given the state of the OPs vehicle is must bring into question the value of an MOT if that is all the tester is allowed to check.

Edit. I don't think the dealer or tester should have been named but I would have contacted them

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[BILL 875]

Its got a lot to do with where it comes from, dont see a lot of rot in Florida unless 40 years or more old.
Bill

 

[Northernraider]

Its got a lot to do with where it comes from, dont see a lot of rot in Florida unless 40 years or more old.
Bill

Because it's a dry state

I've imported 2 vw campers from over there one from San Barnadino and one from Texas

That's a different thing from thinking a vehicle from Scotland would be anymore rusty than anywhere else in the UK

Granted you may see a difference on a vehicle that's been on the coast all it's life to something more inland.


No guarantee with a MH of that age that it's always been in Scotland either.

All of mine I've bought south of border and when sold them they've went back south of border.

 

[Geo]

Thanks

Appreciate your professional view and comments but given the state of the OPs vehicle is must bring into question the value of an MOT if that is all the tester is allowed to check.

Edit. I don't think the dealer or tester should have been named but I would have contacted them

It is and only ever has been a customer perceived value
we as testers and Vosa agree it is and never was a guarantee for 12 months
Imagine presenting your vehicle for test then coming back to that you'd have a fit
Far to many testers have been disciplined for allegedly making holes were there were allegedly none before
like i said
Damned if he do
Damned if he dont

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[Basildog]

I've lived on Scotland all my life and never had a car anywhere near that rotten.

It's got sod all to do with where it's come from

My kids live near Penzance and I promise you that you don’t want to buy a car that’s spent it’s life there so would strongly suggest that where a vehicle has been used has a massive effect on corrosion level.

 

[Northernraider]

It is and only ever has been a customer perceived value
we as testers and Vosa agree it is and never was a guarantee for 12 months
Imagine presenting your vehicle for test then coming back to that you'd have a fit
Far to many testers have been disciplined for allegedly making holes were there were allegedly none before
like i said
Damned if he do
Damned if he dont

A tester doesn't have to do that extent to reveal damage but I have 2 personal friends who are testers.

The level of rot on that van I don't believe is something they wouldn't have noticed and I'm currently whatsapping one at the minute that I've showed pics of that van too and his first reply was " tester needs shot "
Second reply was " I'd lay money on that van never seeing a ramp last year "

In other words he doesn't think the mot is genuine and I'm inclined to agree with him

 

[Northernraider]

My kids live near Penzance and I promise you that you don’t want to buy a car that’s spent it’s life there so would strongly suggest that where a vehicle has been used has a massive effect on corrosion level.

As I said in a reply above if a vehicle had spent most of its life near the coast you will see a difference between that and one inland

My point was just making a comment saying I wouldn't buy a vehicle from Scotland bevause you think it woukd somehow be rustier than anywhere else in the UK is not correct.

Regardless to some folks ideas Scotland does have cities and roads and it isn't all on the coast

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[Geo]

A tester doesn't have to do that extent to reveal damage but I have 2 personal friends who are testers.

The level of rot on that van I don't believe is something they wouldn't have noticed and I'm currently whatsapping one at the minute that I've showed pics of that van too and his first reply was " tester needs shot "
Second reply was " I'd lay money on that van never seeing a ramp last year "

In other words he doesn't think the mot is genuine and I'm inclined to agree with him

Im afraid you and your tester mates are talking utter Tosh! call em back and tell them the test was over a year ago and the corrosion was set about with a slag hammer
quite recently. have you got next weeks lotto numbers handy

 

[Northernraider]

Im afraid you and your tester mates are talking utter Tosh! call em back and tell them the test was over a year ago and the corrosion was set about with a slag hammer
quite recently. have you got next weeks lotto numbers handy

Aye he says to ask you if you tested it lol As he feels your a little over defensive.

His words "testers like that give others a bad name "

That corrosion hasnt happened in 3 years never mind one.


He's been an mot tester 27 years and runs a very succesful business so I'd say he's pretty clued up...and I trust him completely as he isn't a money chaser but someone who likes to keep older motors on the road.

 

[John Mee]

In answer to what the mot tester can do. This mot tester diagnosed serious corrosion to both areas near front suspension mountings. SO HE KNEW THE EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM. His correction of the problem was 2 tiny x 1mm plates attached to the rust and then a pass certificate. There was no way he had fixed the fault he himself had diagnosed. The mot was a paper exercise for the owner. The van was left in a dangerous condition, putting my and my families lives at risk.

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[Sandancers]

We were fortunate enough to be able to buy our MH new, but if I was buying secondhand and paying anything over say £8000 either from private or a trader then I'd be employing a Vehicle Engineer to crawl under the thing with a decent pointy hammer looking for rot and any other defects. I'd care not one jot how long the MOT was.

 

[Geo]

Aye he says to ask you if you tested it lol As he feels your a little over defensive.

His words "testers like that give others a bad name "

That corrosion hasnt happened in 3 years never mind one.


He's been an mot tester 27 years and runs a very succesful business so I'd say he's pretty clued up...and I trust him completely as he isn't a money chaser but someone who likes to keep older motors on the road.

He should know better then
I suspect you are putting words in his mouth

It seems taking my posts out of context is your only argument poor show ole chap poor show try reading the whole post and understanding what has been written
Im trying to educate, some seem hell bent on fueling a hysterical view on whats gone on before, based on little or no experience
are we a mind reading forum? have you got those numbers yet

 

[Northernraider]

He should know better then
I suspect you are putting words in his mouth

It seems taking my posts out of context is your only argument poor show ole chap poor show try reading the whole post and understanding what has been written
Im trying to educate, some seem hell bent on fueling a hysterical view on whats gone on before, based on little or no experience
are we a mind reading forum? have you got those numbers yet

I'm certainly not putting words in his mouth I showed him the pics and asked an opinion.


I served my time in mechanics but left the trade fairly soon after.

I'm also a coded welder and I've restored several old vws to show standard.

I don't claim to be an expert and neither does my mot tester friend.

But going by the rot on that vehicle shown you wouldn't need to use a hammer to identify the rot you could move it with a good thumb press whether covered in underseal or not.

The op has commented since saying the vehicle failed mot on welding and the mot station welded it and passed it.

Therfore it looks like a cowboy botch up job

Surely you are not saying you think every mot inspector is legit and doesn't do shoddy repairs because I have met quite a few over the years that pass vehicles that haven't even entered the mot station.

I've had friends but cars in the past that have been passed and shouldn't have.

You may be a tester with values but not all are and that one certainly doesn't look genuine

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[chaser]

We were fortunate enough to be able to buy our MH new, but if I was buying secondhand and paying anything over say £8000 either from private or a trader then I'd be employing a Vehicle Engineer to crawl under the thing with a decent pointy hammer looking for rot and any other defects. I'd care not one jot how long the MOT was.

absolutly, especialy a van that is 17 years old,

 

[Barclaybasher]

Surely you are not saying you think every mot inspector is legit and doesn't do shoddy repairs because I have met quite a few over the years that pass vehicles that haven't even entered the mot station.

Personal experience:

I know of someone who obtained an MOT certificate on a vehicle that never even made it to the MOT station just to transfer the reg.

Another vehicle was going to fail on emissions - the tester put the probe into a different vehicle's exhaust.....

It seems than an MOT isn't worth the paper it's written on............. worse it gives assurances that deceive

 

[Northernraider]

Personal experience:

I know of someone who obtained an MOT certificate on a vehicle that never even made it to the MOT station just to transfer the reg.

Another vehicle was going to fail on emissions - the tester put the probe into a different vehicle's exhaust.....

It seems than an MOT isn't worth the paper it's written on............. worse it gives assurances that deceive

Yep the emissions trick is a very common one.

Because of this vosa view of how long an mot inspection is valid once its left the test centre can actually fuel the problem and make some dodgy testers take the chance.

Easy to argue it wasn't like that a couple of weeks ago etc.

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[ABZSteve]

I know this will not help but i would never buy a vehicle that has spent years in Scotland the amount of salt they use on the road kills almost everything, i once saw a picture of a 10 year old Toyota Land Cruiser rear axle, the cast iron had rotted through.
Bill

Fook me min, fit ye on aboot, sat, al ge ye sat, yer makin nae sinse at a. Jist a pileapish abidy hiz sat flung aboot, aye, hail o UK hiz sum clamjamfry chukin it about fan its cal, an fan its nae, nae jist Scotland. Black affrontit fur ye Oh Please!! BTW, yer bang on, nae help.

 

[ABZSteve]

Its got a lot to do with where it comes from, dont see a lot of rot in Florida unless 40 years or more old.
Bill

I have travelled all over the US, the sure is a lot of rot.

 

[John65]

No way anyone can defend the garage that did the mot last year. In one picture you can see bits of mig wire where they’ve tried to weld rust. Not to sure about hiding behind the 3 month rule in extreme cases like this. Even if Garage and dealer can wriggle out of it i would contact vosa and get them to examine it. Even if they can’t do anything about this vehicle they could have a word or keep an eye on the garage,at least it may stop them doing dodgy tests. Anyway good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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[Ismbardbrunel]

Sorry to see this...i'm a welder and though this can be sorted, it's one of the worst examples iv'e ever seen...i hope you get the best advice and get this sorted out, you will find that a good welder can put these repairs so you are in a better position than when this vehicle was new...sounds hard to believe, but using bigger materials, it can be repaired giving you full confidence that it won't let you down,...costs..?,...any thing can be fixed at the right price..

 

[ABZSteve]

Im afraid you and your tester mates are talking utter Tosh! call em back and tell them the test was over a year ago and the corrosion was set about with a slag hammer
quite recently. have you got next weeks lotto numbers handy

3704558 by my calculations

 

[John Mee]

Citizen's Advice say take him (dealer) to court if he doesn't cough up.
Dealer's web site says he builds motorhomes, buys and sells, and knows how to find the right van for his customers. Over 10 years experience etc etc. He is not the sweet innocent he makes out. Letter of intent sent.

Been looking up past mots. The same garage has mot'd it for the last 7 years.
2012 Pass Front radiator mounting corroded and holed Chassis slightly corroded offside front (advisories).
2013 Pass slight hole in both front points (advisory).
2014 Fail Offside inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion adversely affects braking or steering.
Passes same day
2015 PassFront suspension component mounting prescribed area corroded but not considered excessive.
2016 Pass Nearside and offside jacking points corroded (advisory).
2017 Fail Nearside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength within 30 cm of body mountings.
Offside front inner vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering.
Front vehicle structure has excessive corrosion seriously affecting its strength.
Passes 2 days later. with 1 hours labour.


2018 (my mot) fails on all of the above, which have not been rectified

How can a garage that looks after an owner's vehicle find so many faults and not fix them? Dodgy mots all round I would say. I shall be phoning DVSA tomorrow.

If I go down, I will go down fighting. This is not right.

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