What is 'Fully Winterised' ?

[Barclaybasher]

My Mobilvetta Euroyacht is not fully winterised - no double floor and the waste tank is outside.

I could fit a heater to the waste tank and provided the interior of the van is kept at above freezing what else would be needed?

Doesn't a fully winterised van need the same?

If left unattended wouldn't it just freeze up anyway?

 

[MyrtleGuru]

Pretty easy if you are on hook-up: use tank heaters in external tanks and keep the heating / hot water on low even when van is unoccupied.

We have external fresh and waste tanks (insulated) fitted with heaters and a reasonably well insulated van. We have survived below -20 deg C without issue on hook-up.

Off grid at those temperatures would be a bit more tricky because of the external tanks. It would not be feasible for us to run the tank heaters without a generator, so we would need a different strategy.

 

[Barclaybasher]

My waste tank is the only thing outside

Would just leaving the waste tank empty with the valve open (with a bucket of course) work?

 

[Theonlysue]

Euro and uk fully winterised means 2 different things.
I had heated tanks on a uk van. Heater pads at the bottom of the tank, ice forms on the top!

 

[funflair]

Fully winterised? ours has a double floor with all tanks and pipework in the floor void together with the heating boiler, heating pipes running around the edge of the van in areas like the toilet cassette and any opening lockers, it's also in the design in that all water pipes are kept away from outside surfaces to prevent freezing, the gas regulators have heaters on to prevent them, then it just comes down to the standard of isolation.

Martin

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[The Wino]

I think its a bit like what constitutes a luxury motorhome no real definition just a bit better than average (in this case at not freezing up)

 

[olley]

Fully winterised is marketing blurb, it should mean it can withstand a winter without freezing up, unfortunately they don't say whether that's winter at the north Pole or on the equator.

 

[Barclaybasher]

My point is that if a van is occupied presumably the inside of the van is at a comfortable level so that only anything outside (my waste tank) would be at risk.

If left unnoccupied without heat surely a winterised van would do little better.

 

[olley]

Yes your right, it would just take a bit longer to freeze.

 

[Southdowners]

Fully winterised is marketing blurb, it should mean it can withstand a winter without freezing up, unfortunately they don't say whether that's winter at the north Pole or on the equator.

They do specify the temperature. From memory I think it’s -30c

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[Duck Truck]

Living in your vehicle in Winter is a skill which ids learned usually after a few mistakes.
However advice is around form people who do it every year.
Different levels of winterisation realistically mean
different levels of comfort and inconvenience.
I have seen double floored vans with heating on still have frozen bits. (mine included
I re-routed a heater duct to provide warm air to the pump area which was in a cold spot.

Some do's
Always have plenty of propane gas
Leave the heating on constantly low during warm or hot days
and up much higher over night.
Leave the waste open to let water flow into a bucket
I saw a guy trying to defrost a steel waste dump valve on a double floored van with a hairdryer
in the event the valve had cracked with the frost

Regularly air your van when the suns out.
Start the van every couple of days and leave it ticking over to put charge back into the batteries
Never leave the hand brake on
chock the wheels


Fit windscreen covers
The list goes on

 

[Littlewheels]

My point is that if a van is occupied presumably the inside of the van is at a comfortable level so that only anything outside (my waste tank) would be at risk.

If left unnoccupied without heat surely a winterised van would do little better.

In a non winterized van the cold strikes through from outside particularly at floor level and the Heating System would have to be on constantly to achieve and maintain an acceptable inside temperature for the occupants to feel comfortable without wearing outdoor clothing indoors on fully winterized van particularly with Alde heating whereby the Radiators and piping run efficiently as stated by Martin/Funflair.

A winterized van left unoccupied without heat would still survive without freezing since the Insulated flooring is such high spec additionally this same type of insulation is used outside below the Water Tanks thus encasing them such is the benefit of a van of this standard.

I cannot overemphasise the comfort level of a fully winterized van with Alde heating.

 

[Littlewheels]

There you go -27 warm as toast inside and the Heating System was just ticking over.

 

[Barclaybasher]

In a non winterized van the cold strikes through from outside particularly at floor level and the Heating System would have to be on constantly to achieve and maintain an acceptable inside temperature for the occupants to feel comfortable without wearing outdoor clothing indoors on fully winterized van particularly with Alde heating whereby the Radiators and piping run efficiently as stated by Martin/Funflair.

A winterized van left unoccupied without heat would still survive without freezing since the Insulated flooring is such high spec additionally this same type of insulation is used outside below the Water Tanks thus encasing them such is the benefit of a van of this standard.

I cannot overemphasise the comfort level of a fully winterized van with Alde heating.

What you say makes sense, more insulation but would you drain down or not if left unoccupied over Winter.

I don't drain down because I keep the van at home on hookup with a thermostatically controlled heater set at a lowish temperature, only froze once when I didn't and then only a pushfit joint opened - just pushed it back on

 

[jezport]

My Mobilvetta Euroyacht is not fully winterised - no double floor and the waste tank is outside.

I could fit a heater to the waste tank and provided the interior of the van is kept at above freezing what else would be needed?

Doesn't a fully winterised van need the same?

If left unattended wouldn't it just freeze up anyway?

Theres a lot of difference between FULLY winterized depending on manufacturer.

A FULLY winterised van like our last Frankia was designed so the hot air tubing ran with the water pipes and heated all waste traps ran close to the toilet, heated inside the double floor ,lockers and garage. Add that to the usual Frankia thick sidewalls floor and roof and we were ok down into minus double figures and could use all water systems including emptying the waste tank as the waste outlet and water inlet was in a heated locker.

A fully winterized van by some other manufacturers would have tank heaters and a few other things (enough to call it winteriszed) but you would not be able to use them in the same way as a FULLY winterized van.

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[hilldweller]

provided the interior of the van is kept at above freezing what else would be needed?

I came unstuck, a little, in a winterised Burstner. I was on hook up so used a fan heater inside. The water pipes froze. The built in heater had heating pipes bundled with the water pipes to heat the area behind the cupboards where cabin heat fails to reach.

You can heat your waste tank but I doubt you'd manage using the batteries.

 

[JeanLuc]

As others have said, it all depends on the manufacturer and exactly how they have arranged the services.
My Hymer has a single floor and the waste tank is outside yet it is fully winterised. By that I mean we have used it comfortably at temperatures of about -10 C but it would probably struggle at a high altitude skiing aire in January for a fortnight!
It is winterised because its single floor is made of a laminated sandwich containing insulation and the external waste tank is surrounded by an air jacket into which the Truma heater blows hot air. All pipe work is internal, as is the fresh water tank.
Check how your waste tank is set up. It too may have a hot air jacket.

 

[Duck Truck]

DRAIN THE WATER SYSTEM if left without heating on
Every van no matter how good can only keep a certain amount of cold at bay for a certain amount of time
we had nearly a week of temperatures overnight of -25 and during the day never above -15
this sort of temp any van without heating freezes
One night of -1 or -2 degrees the van may suffer no damage but prolonged really low minust temperatures will damage pipework and joints if not drained down

 

[Lenny HB]

Our van is classed as winterised, it has a double floor but the tanks still drop below the floor. The tanks are in an insulated enclosure which is heated by the blow air system, also the toilet cassette housing is heated.

 

[tacr2man]

Really winterised , eg for Siberia in winter means heated seals and door locks even battery compartments! So a lot of it is interpretation by degree . In the end its also down to amount of energy input you can maintain to the vehicle .

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[Langtoftlad]

What is "fully winterised?"
This is WildAx's definition:
"Winterisation
In Feb 2014 WildAx Motorhomes asked Truma UK to independently test our models for winterisation and insulation AND...We passed at the highest level possible gaining Grade 3 winterisation! This means that our motorhomes have been tested down to -15 deg C- so, they have the highest possible level of insulation and winterisation. The test involves cooling the motorhome to -15 deg overnight then operating the motorhome heater to warm the interior to +20 deg. This must be achieved in under 4 hours. We did it in 3 hours 21 min!"

No reference to amount of gas used vs size of tank, nor if on EHU.
Their outboard tanks have insulating jackets & tank heaters [but of course they really need you to be on hook up]

 

[autorouter]

What is "fully winterised?"
This is WildAx's definition:
"Winterisation
In Feb 2014 WildAx Motorhomes asked Truma UK to independently test our models for winterisation and insulation AND...We passed at the highest level possible gaining Grade 3 winterisation! This means that our motorhomes have been tested down to -15 deg C- so, they have the highest possible level of insulation and winterisation. The test involves cooling the motorhome to -15 deg overnight then operating the motorhome heater to warm the interior to +20 deg. This must be achieved in under 4 hours. We did it in 3 hours 21 min!"

I think a more suitable test would be to put a MH in a -15C environment, then monitor how many watts of heating is required to keep the inside temperature at +20C. Also no part of the MH where pipes run to be less than +5C. That would test the effectiveness of the insulation.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I think a more suitable test would be to put a MH in a -15C environment, then monitor how many watts of heating is required to keep the inside temperature at +20C. Also no part of the MH where pipes run to be less than +5C. That would test the effectiveness of the insulation.

That might be true...
...but the OP asked "What is fully winterised" and I simply copied the WildAx definition.

 

[autorouter]

I had heated tanks on a uk van. Heater pads at the bottom of the tank, ice forms on the top!

It's not as simple as that. Water gets denser and sinks to the bottom as it gets colder. But when it's down to about +4C it starts to expand and get less dense, so it rises as it gets colder. Very few substances do that, but water is one of them. Then when ice forms, it expands again, so it is less dense than the liquid. That's why ice floats on water. It's also why pipes burst - as the ice expands, if it's blocked at both ends, the pipe will burst.

So a heater pad at the bottom of the tank is actually a reasonable idea.

 

[autorouter]

the OP asked "What is fully winterised" and I simply copied the WildAx definition.

Thanks for posting that definition, it's useful to know what they mean by winterisation.

Wildax's winterisation test looks like an effort to test the effectiveness of the heater, heating a cold MH up to a comfortable level in finite time. Obviously an important test. I was only commenting that it doesn't really test the insulation effectiveness, or whether the pipes are protected from freezing.

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[bigtwin]

For me, I take the view that if any of your services are external then the level of winterisation is sub-optimal.

If you need to use battery power to heat external services then you have compromised your ability to operate in cold conditions.

Ian

 

[CazPaul]

This little one is fully winterised

 

[TheBig1]

Winterised? I recall going to the bath & west motorhome show in the 1980s with an old bedford cf high top. No insulation and no heating at all. It was so cold that our breath froze to ice on the windows and any bare metal areas. we wore woolly hats to bed and proper sleeping bags
It never killed us, and if we can cope with that, then we can survive most things