Towing a car on a trailer

[Conal]

Hi everyone,
I hope those more knowledgeable can help me.
Recently, whilst visiting Whitby and Scarborough my wife injured her foot and we had to cut our trip short as walking in such hilly area became too painful. I t is not improving and we are both “getting on a bit” 66 Mand65 respectively so
We are now considering towing Amy hobby car.
After reading many posts here and elsewhere we are considering both a “A” frame and a micro maxi trailer.
Our first step had been to book into Watling Engineers to have a tow bar fitted. We have chosen an option that allows either method of towing.
Now to the questions.
Our Autotrail Delaware had a max weight of 4500kg, 1500kg towing capacity, and for the combined motor home and towing 5500kg.
Am I correct in thinking that if the actual loaded weight of the motorhome is less than 4500kg I can use the remainder for the trailer and car up to1500kg?
Secondly, my car is a Morris Minor convertible with a kerbside weight of around 770kg. The term is confusing because it could include a 75kg for a driver, or it may not. I understand the micro maxi trailer is around 400kg - give a combined weight around 1170kg, 170kg above the potential weight I might reach.
There are other factors I do not fully understand-
The tow bar will be around 35kg but most of that weight will be 2 metres from Rear wheels. The trailer may need extra parts that can’t be stored in the motorhome - winch, coupling etc... I can store the car spare wheel and rear seat in the motorhome, and leave it low on fuel.
Do you feel this approach is feasible?

 

[Mikeco]

If your combined plated weight is 5500 and the vehicle 4500 how have you arrived at a towing allowance of 1500kg

 

[Phill D]

Hi, as i see it your assumptions are basically correct. so kit the motorhome out in travelling trim and get off to the weigh bridge. Then as you say the difference between travel trim weight and 5500kgs is what you towing capacity is.
I am not a fan of A frames but many swear by them. But! you would save approx 350 kgs of trailer weight assuming you allow the A frame to weigh 50Kgs.

 

[Phill D]

If your combined plated weight is 5500 and the vehicle 4500 how have you arrived at a towing allowance of 1500kg

You probably know this but, the 1500 is the max towable weight but anything over 1Tonne has to come off the van weight.

 

[Phill D]

PS is an A frame possible on a Moggy Minor?

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[bigtwin]

If your combined plated weight is 5500 and the vehicle 4500 how have you arrived at a towing allowance of 1500kg

I believe that he is referring to a towing limit that is independent of the plated weights, perhaps limited by, for example, the towbar design.

Ian

 

[Conal]

Mikeco
The 2015 Autotrail brochure gives the three weights. I don’t think it is unusual for them not to “add up”

 

[bigtwin]

Conal, your assumptions are correct.

Ian

 

[Conal]

bigtwin
The tow bar will be able to tow up to 2000kg but you could be correct if the 1500 relates to the Al-ok maxi chassis extension.

 

[Phill D]

I believe that he is referring to a towing limit that is independent of the plated weights, perhaps limited by, for example, the towbar design.

Ian

the 1500 is a plated weight,, its the same as your front Axle is 1650 kgs and rear 2000kgs but the total must not exceed 3500kgs as an example.
in this case the max total permittable is 5500 but the van must not exceed 4500 and the trailer not exceed 1500kgs

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[bigtwin]

bigtwin
The tow bar will be able to tow up to 2000kg but you could be correct if the 1500 relates to the Al-ok maxi chassis extension.

Yes, I was providing only an example in response to @Mikeco’s post.

Ian

 

[Madcaravanner]

PS is an A frame possible on a Moggy Minor?

Very doubtful why ruin a Classic car with the electric brakes wtc

 

[PeteH]

The "cruncher" would be the plated capacity of the trailer, Can it carry the "mass" of the Moggie and its own mass, and stay within the rated load for the trailer?. Eg; if the Moggie is 800kg and the Trailer 400Kg The rating of the trailer needs to be in excess of 1.2t (1200Kg) Add that to the "road ready" mass of the Motorhome and as long as the total is under 5500Kg. you are good to go?.

PS is an A frame possible on a Moggy Minor?

I have a Triumph Herald, which is "A" frameable?. The biggest problem was devising a rig that was hidden in normal use.

 

[Phill D]

the starting point is without doubt the travelling weight of the van and the actual weight of the car as you know the weight of the trailer. plus the load capcity of the trailer,
stated road side weights etc are really meaningless.

 

[Conal]

Phill D
Good question. It is early days in my research. I belong to both the main forums for Morris Minors and have been trying to find archived info. If it is possible I think I would have to tow it backwards as otherwise the rear wheel diff would get very hot and I would tot up a lot of mileage!
The Morris seemed to fit the bill rather than changing my wife’s car for a lighter one as even the smallest four seater is at least this weight.

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[bigtwin]

the 1500 is a plated weight,, its the same as your front Axle is 1650 kgs and rear 2000kgs but the total must not exceed 3500kgs as an example.
in this case the max total permittable is 5500 but the van must not exceed 4500 and the trailer not exceed 1500kgs

Where is the 1500 weight plated?

I agreed with all of your previous responses on this thread but am puzzled by this one.

I have never seen a plated towing weight; Only Axle 1, Axle 2, Axle 3 (if fitted), GVW & GTW.

GTW minus GVW is not a plated weight but, from your earlier posts, you seem to know this.

Ian

 

[Mikeco]

You probably know this but, the 1500 is the max towable weight but anything over 1Tonne has to come off the van weight.

The weight that can be towed is the difference between the GVW which is 4500 and the plated train weight which is 5500 so where does it say that the vehicle can tow 1500kg.

 

[Wack]

A Morris minor convertible on a trailer looks like a car thief's dream to me

In America it's illegal in many states to tow a car that isn't braked so they have an electric system that uses the brakes on the tow car to turn it into a braked trailer , not sure if it complies with the law here but if did it'd mean you could A frame the minor

It is legal to you it on a trailer as long as the weight of everything is under your train weight

 

[Phill D]

Where is the 1500 weight plated?

I agreed with all of your previous responses on this thread but am puzzled by this one.

I have never seen a plated towing weight; Only Axle 1, Axle 2, Axle 3 (if fitted), GVW & GTW.

GTW minus GVW is not a plated weight but, from your earlier posts, you seem to know this.

Ian

normally on the weight data plate under the bonnet

the example of the combined weights i was giving was for the motorhome and they are also stated on the weight plate. i used that to explain why the cvan could be 4500 and the trailer 1500 but the total 5500.

hope that make sense

 

[pappajohn]

A frame = gross car and frame weight even if its empty.... Unladen/kerb weight does not apply. .
Trailer = whatever the car actually weighs at the time of loading on the trailer plus the weight of the trailer.... The overall weight when hitched.

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[Mikeco]

The weight that can be towed is the difference between the GVW which is 4500 and the plated train weight which is 5500 so where does it say that the vehicle can tow 1500kg.

Meant to say train weight

 

[Phill D]

The weight that can be towed is the difference between the GVW which is 4500 and the plated weight which is 5500 so where does it say that the vehicle can tow 1500kg.

you got me doubting myself now

 

[Conal]

Thanks for the confirmation bigtwin

PeteH all the micro maxis are 1300kg.

Phill D yes I am trying to find an open weigh bridge near Stansted Airport to weigh the motor home and the Morris (separately of course).

 

[Mikeco]

you got me doubting myself now

In theory the laws allow weight to be transferred but the weight that the vehicle will tow will have been determined by Alco if it’s their chassis and increasing that figure by 50 % does not seem right to me.

 

[Conal]

The 1500kg is quoted in the Autotrail brochure

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[Mikeco]

The 1500kg is quoted in the Autotrail brochure

It’s the converters plate on the vehicle that will determine what the vehicle is allowed to tow which is Train weight less GVW.

 

[Wack]

If your van weighs 4000 with you ,partner and all your stuff in it you can tow 1500 as you're not over the train weight of 5500kg

 

[pappajohn]

Very doubtful why ruin a Classic car with the electric brakes wtc

Electric brakes don't alter the existing brakes in any way.
Usually a unit which sits on the drivers floor up against the seat base with a connecting rod to the brake pedal.
Once set the actuator applies the same force to the car brakes as the force to the van brakes.
When not in use its simply disconnected electrically and mechanically then lifted out.
Once properly set up it will take less time to fit than it will the A frame.

 

[Conal]

From the brochure (the van is in storage but I will look at the plate tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.
Max. front axle loading (kg) 2100
Max. rear axle loading (kg) 2400
Max. gross weight (kg) 4500
Max. gross train weight (kg) 5500
Mass in running order (kg) 3640
Max. towing weight (kg) 1500

 

[Landy Andy]

Phill D yes I am trying to find an open weigh bridge near Stansted Airport to weigh the motor home and the Morris (separately of course).

Gibbs recycling centre Pindar road Hoddesdon

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