Toilet waste disposal (1 Viewer)

[Jimbo50]

Owned a Knaus Ski Ti up until 2 weeks ago.
There are 2 valves on the near side in a locker, one dumps the grey waste, the other dumps the fresh tank. It has as others have said a cassette holding tank at the rear which needs removing as per most MH’s.
He may have been emptying his fresh and grey, and following the OP’s concerns my have grinned to “wind him up”?

 

[Puddleduck]

So are you seriously saying that they made you install separate systems inside the house for your baths and sinks etc ?
Here's a laugh , at the C&MC site we are on they installed a water recycling system so that the toilets were flushed with the grey shower water etc , it stank to high heaven and was totally unusable so now obsolete and toilets flush on mains water ?

Yes, well outside the house . Hand wash water can (and does) go down the black sewer, kitchen, showers, bath, washing machine and dishwasher outflows into the grey system. Remember we are up steam of an SSSI and the outflow goes into an important salmon and sea trout spawning area.

 

[Basildog]

Yes, well outside the house . Hand wash water can (and does) go down the black sewer, kitchen, showers, bath, washing machine and dishwasher outflows into the grey system. Remember we are up steam of an SSSI and the outflow goes into an important salmon and sea trout spawning area.

Well I struggle to see why they made you do that when you can get good package sewage treatment plants such as Klargester Biodisc which they say you could drink the water from , not that I would, we have installed several that discharge into rivers .

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[sallylillian]

Yes. Remember we are up steam of an SSSI and the outflow goes into an important salmon and sea trout spawning area.

I respect your statements, you must know what you have at your house, but it does not make any sense to have 2 separate drainage systems in a house and then 2 different septic tanks. These tanks need water to give the bacteria the ability to operate efficiently and for there to be sufficient flow between the chambers to ensure clean water into the soak away, therefore to reduce the input of grey into it is detrimental, I would have thought. But clearly you have an abnormal system which could not be considered the requirement of every campsite, or a justification for arguing that black should not go into a drain that is clearly connected to a main sewer just because someone called it a grey point.

 

[Puddleduck]

Well I struggle to see why they made you do that when you can get good package sewage treatment plants such as Klargester Biodisc which they say you could drink the water from , not that I would, we have installed several that discharge into rivers .

This was 15 years ago. A new house further upsteam than us has installed a mini-treatment plant but can't get SEPA to sign the certificate that says the discharge can actually be discharged (SEPA have sealed the outflow so it's u/s at the moment) - so he can't get a habitation certificate nor can he use the loo in the house or move in. Last I heard he may have to take it out again. SEPA are not the easiest people to deal with.

 

[DavidG58]

Ongoing confusion about the cleanliness of grey water, I am quite sure that all grey water would be going to sewer, as already suggested by others above, macerated black waste is therefore no problem down same drain

One serious issue that most seem to disregard or are unaware of, cassettes primed with any chemical should not go down a sewer and absolutely not into a septic tank system they are far more toxic to a treatment system than macerated but 'plain' black waste

without knowing the specifics of the site mentioned we will not know the rights and wrongs, but if the grey drain is connected correctly to the sewer, what happened is fine, the worst case would be the site owners have illegally or unintentionally connected the grey waste outlet to a ground / surface water discharge

edit - for clarity we have a black tank, macerated on the way in, I regularly check where the drain goes before dumping, but mainly to make sure the site is correctly plumbed, often it is obvious as you can often see the drains flowing when dumping in progress

Its my business as well (sewage and contaminated water, so have so have some knowledge and interest)

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[sallylillian]

To go slightly off point here, I remember years ago when we had our RV that we had a pitch on a site at Narbonne. It had a little shower hut on the pitch. Anyway the RV tanks were full and in my limited experience I saw the screw on grey cap of a sewer pipe about 6 inches up from the ground. Great I thought I will screw my 4 inch Yankee snake onto that. Fortunately as usual I dropped my grey tank a little first to make sure all was OK. Well it wasn't, took the pipe off to an eruption of soapy water. Later I was up in the office talking to the receptionist and I mentioned that their drain seemed to be blocked on my pitch. A guy followed me back and I stopped at the grey cap, but he walked past me. Hey I said its here. He said no that is for deep watering of the trees!!!! The drain is here, a 1inch pipe 3 foot up the wall of the hut!
So please don't think I do not inspect where I dump.... because I do now!

 

[Candapack]

Owned a Knaus Ski Ti up until 2 weeks ago.
There are 2 valves on the near side in a locker, one dumps the grey waste, the other dumps the fresh tank. It has as others have said a cassette holding tank at the rear which needs removing as per most MH’s.
He may have been emptying his fresh and grey, and following the OP’s concerns my have grinned to “wind him up”?

No, it was definitely toilet waste. I was close enough to be able to tell the difference. Also, he watched me emptying my cassette and pointed to his setup with a "this is the way to go" look and gesture. (I am fluent in Dutch gestures).
But from the replies, it appears he may not have been doing anything wrong. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[gus-lopez]

Knowing what the Spanish are like you will be lucky if the sewers are connected to anything but what they call a black hole !
Basically a big hole is dug in the ground and the drains all terminate into it then they either cast a concrete lid or lintel over it , when it stops working they dig another !

Except they all became illegal in 2002 & the installation of 'new' ones is supposed to be prohibited & only 3 chamber ones are supposed to be installed. Mind you if you have an existing one that blocks you can install another.

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[Northernraider]

Is that why on every site, aire or other waste disposal point there are two separate drains, one for black waste, one for grey?

Not on every aire there isn't I've used at least 6 here that it's the same drain for both toilet and grey water

 

[Northernraider]

So OK where do you think the black goes and where does the grey go on every site? I think the answer to your question is that historically in Europe we have had cassette toilets. These contain substantial solids, the nature of their construction makes it tricky to empty, inevitably you need space and a large throat to empty into, and a working height preferably. To drain a grey tank into a drain 2ft up in the air is impossible, so to meet the needs of the two waste evacuation constrictions two options are presented but wherever I have seen the actual drain pipe both waters joined the same drain. If you were seeing someone trying to force solids between the grids of a grey drain, as I have done, that is revolting, for me as much as the dog owner walking in front of you who bends down with his plastic bag. But with a macerated liquid which is subsequently flushed with the grey tank, managed cleanly as it can be, I do not see the issue.

Totally correct from what I've seen here ...the drain you empty the cassette in to runs directly under the drive over drain for the grey water ....so if your sensible and you empty your cassette first and then empty your grey it helps to flush the drain. Then wash yiur hands and fill your fresh water tank

 

[Northernraider]

But what is a good thing to realise from this thread.
If existing motorhome owners don't know that these are the same drains and are horrified seeing fluids being emptied from a motorhome.
That should give you an idea of what non motorhomers think when they see someone emptying their grey waste all over a carpark or while driving down the road etc.
I often empty my grey on wasteland etc but I will do it discretely over grass or under darkness etc or indeed over a drain.

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[MR. FUSION]

I respect your statements, you must know what you have at your house, but it does not make any sense to have 2 separate drainage systems in a house and then 2 different septic tanks. These tanks need water to give the bacteria the ability to operate efficiently and for there to be sufficient flow between the chambers to ensure clean water into the soak away, therefore to reduce the input of grey into it is detrimental, I would have thought. But clearly you have an abnormal system which could not be considered the requirement of every campsite, or a justification for arguing that black should not go into a drain that is clearly connected to a main sewer just because someone called it a grey point.

Having had a septic tank for 11 years I think I can comment. The exact opposite is the reality, having separate tanks makes total sense, grey water is a pain in the arse for septic tanks which DON'T like food in them, don't like antibacterial/soap products and don't like a lot of water going through them !!! Exactly what a combined grey/black system produces.

 

[nicholsong]

Just forgetting those of you with houses that are not connected to mains sewers.

Those of you who have used Canterbury P+R facilities will recall that there is a large 2'x2' square chamber covered by a removable grid, which has a rather tacky piece of rope to slide the grid off the hole and back again.

This chamber is used for both the cassette emptying and the over-grid discharge of grey water. It all goes into the same sewer which can be seen.

Unfortunately some users emptying cassettes are too lazy to move the grid, and it is sometimes covered in paper - or worse, so I always use gloves to handle the rope to slide the grid. It is maybe something that could be improved with a hinged lid, which would have to be opened, but could be damaged when driving over for grey discharge. However Canterbury is such a good facility that I would not criticise it just for that, and Colin Ferris at the Council is still making improvements like adding the big wheelie bin facility.

I see no problem with grey and black going down the same pit and mains sewer.

The NO NO is to discharge either down rainwater run-off drains. Although I have sometimes wondered whether one's shower/washing up waste is much worse than some of the oil and dirt that rainwater washes off the roads, pavements and verges where animals may have been defacating, but maybe it is.

Geoff

 

[Basildog]

Except they all became illegal in 2002 & the installation of 'new' ones is supposed to be prohibited & only 3 chamber ones are supposed to be installed. Mind you if you have an existing one that blocks you can install another.

Having had a septic tank for 11 years I think I can comment. The exact opposite is the reality, having separate tanks makes total sense, grey water is a pain in the arse for septic tanks which DON'T like food in them, don't like antibacterial/soap products and don't like a lot of water going through them !!! Exactly what a combined grey/black system produces.

Very true , if you have a package sewage treatment plant the B.O.D (Biological oxygen demand ) increases massively if you have a waste disposal unit or similar in the kitchen, basically doubled the size of plant required if I remember correctly.

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[vwalan]

in uk usually the chemical toilet waste goes into a holding tank to be taken away to special works to deal with it . even mains sewage works can only cope with small amounts of chemical toilet waste .
some campsites have their own sewage works so chemical waste if incorrectly put in the wrong place kills the sewage works .
i have emptied many and had to actually bring in good sewage from mains works to get small works going again.
even grey waste can kill sewage works . its very often taken away on its own from campsites and housing estates . might end up at a sewage works but is tret differently to sewage .
the actual workings of sewage farms is really interesting . ring your local company they very often do interesting day visits to works , you can ask questions and get real answers .
also some fresh water works allow visitors again very interesting .

what you think you are seeing or whats really happening on campsites etc is very often not what you imagine . have a visit ask questions , come away with a clear mind .

 

[pappajohn]

A long time ago a member posted a picture of an elsan point on a Spanish site

The photo was a long shot...including the brick elsan point and the sewer pipe it fed into....well....the other end of the pipe emerging in a concrete stream culvert some distance away.

 

[vwalan]

A long time ago a member posted a picture of an elsan point on a Spanish site

The photo was a long shot...including the brick elsan point and the sewer pipe it fed into....well....the other end of the pipe emerging in a concrete stream culvert some distance away.

yes some have open sewers . its not uncommon .
it might surpise some of you but sunlite or ultra violet light is one of the worlds best ways of cleaning water. usually in uk water leaving a sewage works goes under ultraviolet lights to help clean it .
but in many countries open sewage pipes are around .
may seem daft but in many places the sewers outlet half way down mountains and isnt treated at all.

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[GWAYGWAY]

I wonder its possible to fit a macerator to a Thetford C250 cassette toilet which is what is fitted as standard. Perhaps in an RV where there is more room but might be difficult in a motorhome. I would be interested in that if it were possible. It might be an advantage to have both the facility of the cassette and a macerator as well.

If you were consume a couple of senacot tablest every day, YOU WOULD NOT NEED a macerator for anything.

 

[sallylillian]

If you were consume a couple of senacot tablest every day, YOU WOULD NOT NEED a macerator for anything.

Except the paper or do you have some tree hugging method?

 

[drycamper]

In many places in the world that's what your left hand is for!

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[nelly]

usually in uk water leaving a sewage works goes under ultraviolet lights to help clean it .

Well i worked for 36 years in sewage treatment and only had one works with uv it is very labour intensive and expensive. The uk works on combined sewers there is nothing wrong with what was going on in the OP.

Neil

 

[ChrisL]

I wonder its possible to fit a macerator to a Thetford C250 cassette toilet which is what is fitted as standard. Perhaps in an RV where there is more room but might be difficult in a motorhome. I would be interested in that if it were possible. It might be an advantage to have both the facility of the cassette and a macerator as well.

They do make them see the link

 

[Deleted member 29692]

But it should not have gone into a grey waste facility - that's just wrong.

I've been on many aires where the "dedicated" black waste point is just an extension pipe from the grey dump.

You can empty your toilet in the black point and watch it all flowing away under the grey waste grate.

I can think of one aire, one of the bigger ones (i.e. 100+ vans), where they've got rid of the separate black point completely and the signs instruct you to use the same hole for both.

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[Deleted member 29692]

Is that why on every site, aire or other waste disposal point there are two separate drains, one for black waste, one for grey?

On the surface yes. Generally they join up after about 4 feet of pipe

 

[vwalan]

Well i worked for 36 years in sewage treatment and only had one works with uv it is very labour intensive and expensive. The uk works on combined sewers there is nothing wrong with what was going on in the OP.

Neil

all i can say is i worked in sewage as well and just about all round here have ultra violet lights shining on the streams that leave the works . and that goes back best part of twenty years . its just a light fitted over the water leaving the plants .
i liked found it all interesting . i also visited many sewage fresh water plants and desalination works in africa as i travelled around . sometimes taking plans of african works back to uk. the specialists liked my interest. the uk didnt really learn anything other than amazement as to how much de salination is going on in africa .
but back on track just a small light works on the very small lines that leave the works .

 

[vwalan]

On the surface yes. Generally they join up after about 4 feet of pipe

i would say they might not.

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[Deleted member 29692]

i would say they might not.

I know plenty of places where they do. It's easy to prove because if you pour something down the black point you can turn round and watch it flow under the grey point

 

[vwalan]

I know plenty of places where they do. It's easy to prove because if you pour something down the black point you can turn round and watch it flow under the grey point

you maybe correct. i cant answer for all.
mind in many places grey could be the real thing to get rid of .
i think in general folk do have far more grey to get rid of than black.
maybe that helps .

 

[GWAYGWAY]

In many places in the world that's what your left hand is for!

Yes, and I am a sinistre as well, but I do not do, that. Lets face it once it has gone from the vehicle we all forget about it and where it is going same with the flush loo at home and the kitchen sink waste, out of sight out of mind . I'll let the water board deal with it and the gear they have is pretty good too, They do get a flummoxed?? by the fatbergs in the main sewers caused when fat and merde come together in a nice mix. As for grey water, well that normally gets the UMMMs of the site jumping up and down in self righteousness, Where do they THINK it all goes. Where do the Deer in the woods shit? Foxes? Cows and sheep? all these things are dealt with by the Bacteria in the world, changing it to basically good stuff, ready for something else to grow in it and make more food for us to eat. If you wipe off your utensils pots and plates , there is sod all in grey water especially those super clean people that shower twice a day who are wasting water with a tiny bit of detergent to keep clean, It goes down the grey tank and further dilutes what is there with more water. What come out is just WATER , Urine is the biggest item in the Black cassettes and what is that other than modified water with a little bit of body waste chemical compounds.
Why worry, put it in a proper place designated for it or failing that dig a hole in a field and leave it there. When the great catastrophe happens what will the worriers do then?

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