Testing off-grid survival period.

N

nicholsong

Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Posts
11,681
Likes collected
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Location
SW London, Poland and all Europe
Funster No
8,876
MH
A Class N+B Arto 69GL
Exp
Since 2009
We do not usually stay more than 2 nights in one place, so survival period off-grid has never been explored.

We (two people)returned yesterday from a chill-out stay for 6 nights in a fovourite spot in the Tatra mountains in Slowakia.

Of course this time of year needs no heating and there is plenty of daylight.

The results were as follows:-

Gas - no problem of course with a full 11kg Gaslow.

Water - we used just over 1/2 our 120lt tank. There is a fresh spring there that we could have used if necessary.

Cassette - we have two and the first one lasted 5 nights, but restaurant toilets, and 'hedgerows' were used on walks, without which it might have been 4 nights.

Batteries - we have a B2B (DC-DC) charger so arrived full. We have an 80W solar panel and that, with about 10 hours of direct sun for 5 of the days, kept our batteries at engine 12.5v and our hab 2x 90Ah at or above 12.5v (These are panel voltmeter readings which under-read battery terminal voltages by 0.1 - 0.15v.)

I was pleased with the results and extrapolating from them I estimate that we could have lasted 9-10 days, but that would dramatically fall in the shoulder months, because of lack of sunlight. An increase of solar power would be needed and maybe a change to LifePo batteries. That would be for the future, as at present we are unlikely to stay put for so long, as our trips to France, Greece etc. are limited to about 5 weeks so we are on the move more.

It would be interesting to know others' survival periods and with what set-ups.

Geoff
 
Our Globecar Campscout PVC has a compressor-only fridge, which increases our 12v power needs when off-grid (which we usually are). So, we have 250 watts of solar (all we had space for on the roof), a 25 amp B2B and twin LIFOS 62AH lithium batteries. We also have two 11 kg Gaslow canisters, a 100 litre fresh water tank and a second toilet cassette. Assuming we arrive at our FLT destination with full batteries, full fresh water, full gas and empty waste water and toilet cassettes, provided we are economical with water usage, with 2 onboard we can manage for 7 or perhaps 8 days. With little or no solar input in winter months, even though we often use the TV for a few hours streaming each day, we have never drained the batteries lower than around 20% or so. Showering onboard daily has to be a quick operation with limited water use….. and if we are really getting low this may be restricted to alternate days. The limiting determinant for staying longer is invariably the capacity of the 2 toilet cassettes.
 
We're experienced FLT's and can last for weeks as far as gas and 12 volt goes. Water and cassette is our biggest restriction but we have never had to stop Wilding as a result. There's always a way through the problem.
 
You only need to stay one night and one day off grid somewhere to see how you'll manage.
If your battery is back fully charged before sundown the next day, you can stay off grid indefinitely.

Even in cloudy weather our battery charges fully the next day (just). When sunny it's charged by lunchtime.. Got 150w solar, Votronic duo controller and an 80ah gel battery. The TV won't be used any more but the compressor fridge will replace that usage 👍😊
 
nicholsong said:
We do not usually stay more than 2 nights in one place, so survival period off-grid has never been explored.

We (two people)returned yesterday from a chill-out stay for 6 nights in a fovourite spot in the Tatra mountains in Slowakia.

Of course this time of year needs no heating and there is plenty of daylight.

The results were as follows:-

Gas - no problem of course with a full 11kg Gaslow.

Water - we used just over 1/2 our 120lt tank. There is a fresh spring there that we could have used if necessary.

Cassette - we have two and the first one lasted 5 nights, but restaurant toilets, and 'hedgerows' were used on walks, without which it might have been 4 nights.

Batteries - we have a B2B (DC-DC) charger so arrived full. We have an 80W solar panel and that, with about 10 hours of direct sun for 5 of the days, kept our batteries at engine 12.5v and our hab 2x 90Ah at or above 12.5v (These are panel voltmeter readings which under-read battery terminal voltages by 0.1 - 0.15v.)

I was pleased with the results and extrapolating from them I estimate that we could have lasted 9-10 days, but that would dramatically fall in the shoulder months, because of lack of sunlight. An increase of solar power would be needed and maybe a change to LifePo batteries. That would be for the future, as at present we are unlikely to stay put for so long, as our trips to France, Greece etc. are limited to about 5 weeks so we are on the move more.

It would be interesting to know others' survival periods and with what set-ups.

Geoff
Click to expand...
Hi. Think about getting a solar panel that you can set at 90deg to the sun for Winter use, as anything horizontal gets very reduced output. We have a 100w suitcase (on a wander lead) type for our 3 month tWinter trips and only have 2 x 100ah leasure batteries like you. This gives us 3 hours of tv/ day if we wish. We have 2 cassettes but lift sewer manhole covers for disposal.
Water is the easy bit.
Mitch.
PS where in Poland are you ? Any effects from the war ?
Mitch

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As far as electric is concerned we are 99% self sufficient, gas can go on for months, water is one week or 10 days if we ration it, toilet cassette it’s the limiting 5-6days tops. All of this are manageable to some extent.
 
I'm very envious of you wild-camping in the Tatras Mountains. Absolutely beautiful.
We wildcamp off-grid 99% of the time, but rarely manage to stay in one place for more than 4 nights, unless there's a long drop or public toilet nearby. I should say, we never empty toilet cassettes in long drops, and very rarely in public toilets. We bought a second cassette and carried it around for years without ever using it so now it's up in the loft. If it wasn't for the toilet problem I estimate we could go 5 or 6 days without moving to empty/fill tanks, etc.
 
MitchandJenny said:
Hi. Think about getting a solar panel that you can set at 90deg to the sun for Winter use, as anything horizontal gets very reduced output. We have a 100w suitcase (on a wander lead) type for our 3 month tWinter trips and only have 2 x 100ah leasure batteries like you. This gives us 3 hours of tv/ day if we wish. We have 2 cassettes but lift sewer manhole covers for disposal.
Water is the easy bit.
Mitch.
PS where in Poland are you ? Any effects from the war ?
Mitch
Click to expand...

We are in Katowice SW Poland.

No effects from the Ukraine war, other than everyone else experiencing fuel and other price increases.
 
MitchandJenny said:
We have 2 cassettes but lift sewer manhole covers for disposal.
Click to expand...
Presumably with discretion and where you know they're 'mains'.

I'm sure you're responsible MH-ers MitchandJenny but I've previously had to stop a guy in a motorhome who was poking about at drain covers on private land, which is absolutely not OK. Especially as in this case the system is ultra prone to clogging as it doesn't drain very effectively into the main septic tank. Being given permission to overnight on private property doesn't allow anyone to pull up manhole covers unless they've asked first. (That's a general comment, not directed at you, Mitch & Jenny.)
 
Managed 14 nights in Germany in a rainy October with not much sun (I was in Hospital for a week then couldn't drive for a few days).
300 watts of solar 3 x 80ah Gel batteries, water was the only problem solved with bottles from the Aldi for the last few days.

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We very rarely use hook up but like to use electric kettle, microwave, coffee machine and induction cooking outside, 480ah LiFePO4 and 520watts of solar and we can make over 2kwh on a decent day so could last forever with half decent sun, even without sun the batteries will give us 3 days heavy use.

Gas will last months in the summer and still weeks in the winter.

The water is 360 litres so a week or more without really trying , if we had to I am sure we could stretch it to two weeks, 250 litres each black and grey would need emptying when the water needs filling, in the Flair the limiting factor was the cassette and we had two.
 
We have 2 x 100w solar panels and 2 x 78ah gel batteries and use very little electric, just lighting usually, as we rarely have the gogglebox on. 2 x Gaslow 11kg bottles last a long, long time so that's not an issue, neither is fresh water as we have a 150 litre tank and don't take loads of showers and when we do we use the 'standard' camper style procedure (ie don't leave it running when soaping up etc). The real limiting factor is the toilet cassette getting full, we have a second one but to date haven't needed to use it as we've always found somewhere suitable (and safe) to dispose of the contents however as Ireland doesn't have as many emptying facilities we've supplemented the cassettes with a pee bottle for hubby so he can use it overnight (to save him getting out of bed and rocking the MH as if there was a herd of elephants on board!) but mainly so that he can use it and then 'dispose' of the contents discretely at a suitable location, much better than piddling up a bush!

1657319328304.png
 
Minxy said:
We have 2 x 100w solar panels and 2 x 78ah gel batteries and use very little electric, just lighting usually, as we rarely have the gogglebox on. 2 x Gaslow 11kg bottles last a long, long time so that's not an issue, neither is fresh water as we have a 150 litre tank and don't take loads of showers and when we do we use the 'standard' camper style procedure (ie don't leave it running when soaping up etc). The real limiting factor is the toilet cassette getting full, we have a second one but to date haven't needed to use it as we've always found somewhere suitable (and safe) to dispose of the contents however as Ireland doesn't have as many emptying facilities we've supplemented the cassettes with a pee bottle for hubby so he can use it overnight (to save him getting out of bed and rocking the MH as if there was a herd of elephants on board!) but mainly so that he can use it and then 'dispose' of the contents discretely at a suitable location, much better than piddling up a bush!

View attachment 639181
Click to expand...

How thoughtful of you Mel to assist hubby in this way!!!! Perhaps you should try one of these also using a pee bottle. :ROFLMAO:
Amazon product ASIN B01G5YA5FO
 
Minxy said:
We have 2 x 100w solar panels and 2 x 78ah gel batteries and use very little electric, just lighting usually, as we rarely have the gogglebox on. 2 x Gaslow 11kg bottles last a long, long time so that's not an issue, neither is fresh water as we have a 150 litre tank and don't take loads of showers and when we do we use the 'standard' camper style procedure (ie don't leave it running when soaping up etc). The real limiting factor is the toilet cassette getting full, we have a second one but to date haven't needed to use it as we've always found somewhere suitable (and safe) to dispose of the contents however as Ireland doesn't have as many emptying facilities we've supplemented the cassettes with a pee bottle for hubby so he can use it overnight (to save him getting out of bed and rocking the MH as if there was a herd of elephants on board!) but mainly so that he can use it and then 'dispose' of the contents discretely at a suitable location, much better than piddling up a bush!

View attachment 639181
Click to expand...
We use a "comfort" bottle too, not as posh as yours 😉
but works well all the same, more than doubles the cassette capacity and smells luvverlyyy.
Screenshot_20220709-092800_Chrome.jpg

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Mixyblob said:
We use a "comfort" bottle too, not as posh as yours 😉
but works well all the same, more than doubles the cassette capacity and smells luvverl(y)y. View attachment 639235
Click to expand...
That neck wouldn't be wide enough for hubby! 😳











He's as blind as a bat without his glasses on so would struggle to get his sausage in without spillage!!! 😄
 
Tonks said:
Presumably with discretion and where you know they're 'mains'.

I'm sure you're responsible MH-ers MitchandJenny but I've previously had to stop a guy in a motorhome who was poking about at drain covers on private land, which is absolutely not OK. Especially as in this case the system is ultra prone to clogging as it doesn't drain very effectively into the main septic tank. Being given permission to overnight on private property doesn't allow anyone to pull up manhole covers unless they've asked first. (That's a general comment, not directed at you, Mitch & Jenny.)
Click to expand...
We do it in Spain where massive sewers are near blocks of flats.
No offence taken Tonks
Mitch
 
I am baffled as to how 2 people can use only 60 litres of water in 6 days - 5 litres a day each for everything?? Even if you don't shower at all, I would find that challenging. What's the secret?
 
I think your maths is lacking. It's a 360L tank. QED 60L x 6 days. I reckon I could do ten days with a tank that size. My fresh, grey and cassette all need attention about the same time, about 3-4 days.

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nicholsong said:
It would be interesting to know others' survival periods and with what set-ups.
Click to expand...
My survival period (95% off grid) is over thirty five years and counting.

My set up is solar panels, a generator (rarely used now as I am in mostly sunny places), a more simple life style and knowledge of where to park free, as well as where supermarkets with washing machines are and the location of water taps and dump facilities.

Of course, I cheat a lot by living on my own so no coffee makers, hair driers, curling tongs, large TVs and the like are needed. I must also confess that owning a small orchard in the sun drenched hills of Central Portugal gives me a guaranteed safe parking spot at the end of "adventures".

"Possessions are chains which tie you down."


JJ :cool:
 
PrettyandFluffy said:
I am baffled as to how 2 people can use only 60 litres of water in 6 days - 5 litres a day each for everything?? Even if you don't shower at all, I would find that challenging. What's the secret?
Click to expand...

I said just over 1/2 our 120 lt, so maybe 75lt. We did add 5lt from the spring because I was walking there to fill a 1/2lt water bottle.

We did shower, but that entails maybe 1lt to get wet, shampoo/soap then 2-3lts(or less) to rinse off. So 3 1/2lt each = 7lts x 6 days = 42lts.
Then there is only coffees, a bit for cooking meals and washing up - we did eat out 3-4 times.

We did not wash the outside of the MH, honest. :LOL:
 
cyberyacht said:
I think your maths is lacking. It's a 360L tank. QED 60L x 6 days. I reckon I could do ten days with a tank that size. My fresh, grey and cassette all need attention about the same time, about 3-4 days.
Click to expand...
OP said: "Water - we used just over 1/2 our 120lt tank. There is a fresh spring there that we could have used if necessary.".

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nicholsong said:
We do not usually stay more than 2 nights in one place, so survival period off-grid has never been explored.

We (two people)returned yesterday from a chill-out stay for 6 nights in a fovourite spot in the Tatra mountains in Slowakia.

Of course this time of year needs no heating and there is plenty of daylight.

The results were as follows:-

Gas - no problem of course with a full 11kg Gaslow.

Water - we used just over 1/2 our 120lt tank. There is a fresh spring there that we could have used if necessary.

Cassette - we have two and the first one lasted 5 nights, but restaurant toilets, and 'hedgerows' were used on walks, without which it might have been 4 nights.

Batteries - we have a B2B (DC-DC) charger so arrived full. We have an 80W solar panel and that, with about 10 hours of direct sun for 5 of the days, kept our batteries at engine 12.5v and our hab 2x 90Ah at or above 12.5v (These are panel voltmeter readings which under-read battery terminal voltages by 0.1 - 0.15v.)

I was pleased with the results and extrapolating from them I estimate that we could have lasted 9-10 days, but that would dramatically fall in the shoulder months, because of lack of sunlight. An increase of solar power would be needed and maybe a change to LifePo batteries. That would be for the future, as at present we are unlikely to stay put for so long, as our trips to France, Greece etc. are limited to about 5 weeks so we are on the move more.

It would be interesting to know others' survival periods and with what set-ups.

Geoff
Click to expand...
Believe it or not but tatra mountains was the answer to a crossword i was doing this morning and i didnt know the answer motorhome fun provides the answer once again
 
Ive 1100 watt solar , 700ah lead acid batteries, 150l water tank , 2 x 11kg gas.

Ok so at present im parked on mums drive, not hooked up , batteries are all fully charged each day by 12/1pm if sunny. If cloudy it can take till around 4pm .

That's with 240v compressor domestic fridge running 24/7 off a 3000watt inverter. 6/7 hours tv every night. And all other electrics.

40amp b2b if required when moving.
Im still on the 1 x11kg gas cylinder ive been using since April . Thats cooking everyday and occasional water heater. ( Water heater can also work on the 240v powered by inverter so i use that most days.

150l water tank i currently fill around once a week because im not as careful with water here as i could fill daily if required. I reckon when travelling that will last me 10-14 days if i needed it to. I can shower comfortably in 8 litres.

Cassette lasts 4/5 days but when travelling if no disposal points i use other methods .


I found when travelling fresh water was my limit depending where i was as not everywhere has taps available


Ive not used it winter time yet but i imagine ill have to use the b2b a bit more then but i rarely stay in one spot more than 3 or 4 days unless theres a restrictive reason.
 
cyberyacht said:
Beg your pudding. I was quoting from Funflair's post, who has humungous tanks.
Click to expand...
It's obviously something to do with me but I am as confused as anybody else it would seem, yes we have humungous tanks ;) well half decent anyway but we don't have terribly accurate level gauges as it only works in 25% increments, I very rarely fill to the top and the empty alarm will come on before we are empty so we may well be living on a lot less water than we think but hey ho it doesn't really matter as we have enough and that is all we need.
 

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