Stop Blaming The Dogs (1 Viewer)

[johnp10]

I agree with you 100%, however humans are just as, if not more, unpredictable.

Trikeman.

The issue is dogs and owners' ability to control them.
The predictability of humans isn't the discussion point.
Whilst you and others here may have a point, it's not relevant to this discussion.

Can it not be accepted that dogs are an animal, their owners aren't always fit to be such and all dogs have the POTENTIAL to cause major damage and/or death to people, kids in particular, if not properly controlled?

This whole thread isn't anti dog.
No one is suggesting anything other than common sense.
It simply advocates proper control of an animal which can revert to type, no matter how placid they may seem.
Is that unreasonable?

 

[Dogeared]

We have a cairn terrier who is as soft as anything' would rather hide than get into a confrontation, BUT, if she was cornered not sure that she would roll over and take cruelty either from another dog or a child. She loves children (not to eat), children love her, BUT it is still our responsibility to make sure she is not put into a position where she is cornered into defending herself. No dog is totally reliable, probably same as us new humans.

Baz

 

[jhorsf]

Broken Link Removed

I remember watching a tv program about us celeb bike builder Jessie James he had two pitbulls that lived together at the workshop for a while until one of them killed the other in a fight they were shown just like that picture you posted

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[Dawn B]

There'll always be one

 

[TheBig1]

I remember watching a tv program about us celeb bike builder Jessie James he had two pitbulls that lived together at the workshop for a while until one of them killed the other in a fight they were shown just like that picture you posted

the difference is that jesse james is a tough no nonsense bully and prides himself as a mans man, a real hard guy. the dogs mentioned lived at his garage as guard dogs and were trained to be as aggressive as their owner. who knows what caused the fight, but their lifestyle was not that of loved family pets. dogs will argue, the same as people but rather than throwing fists, they use teeth

the dogs caused injury to each other but not a human, especially not a child

 

[jhorsf]

The point I was making is those dogs were not guard dogs they were pets and free to roam about among people coming and going and his kids when they were there, when filmed they looked just like the two in the picture posted and friendly yet they only fought once one killing they other .This was as unexpected as all the other, "but my dogs would not do that kind of thing",I have never yet read when someone gets injured or worse by a dog the owner say their dog was or could be nasty only that they did not think their dogs would ever do that.
The people that know they have a dog that can attack someone or another dog are the owners that are more likely to take care it does not happen, you can never know just what a dog will do in any situation beforehand but some owners just think they do.

Two of Jesse’s favorite pit bulls fought in a bloody battle to the death – and Jesse’s terrified dog Rudy was ripped apart in the savage attack that tore a leg almost completely from his body.

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[Trikeman]

The issue is dogs and owners' ability to control them.
The predictability of humans isn't the discussion point.
Whilst you and others here may have a point, it's not relevant to this discussion.

Can it not be accepted that dogs are an animal, their owners aren't always fit to be such and all dogs have the POTENTIAL to cause major damage and/or death to people, kids in particular, if not properly controlled?

This whole thread isn't anti dog.
No one is suggesting anything other than common sense.
It simply advocates proper control of an animal which can revert to type, no matter how placid they may seem.
Is that unreasonable?

Certainly not unreasonable John, you are right that any animal can, or have the potential to, cause major damage - especially as they are armed 'naturally' with a gob full of, or paws covered in lethal weapons. I also agree about the 'owners' of some dogs being controlled by their aggressive looking, chain wearing, lead pulling dogs - the CHAVs with their 'status symbols', usually some sort of bull breed and usually owned as a make up for their own 'deficiencies',,,,, in some area.
Opening up the human psych in the debate relates to the training and 'control' of animals which I agree is one of the main problem of animals going out of control - seen unfortunately (recently) really bad damage to a toddler by a jealous, though pink ribbon wearing cat and another severe facial injury from a pet parrot.

My point raised (of which I stand by) is that MY confidence in my dog training and control I feel comfortable with - I don't feel so confident with humans, I see that every day. If the debates have to stay within what one perceives as the only talking point, the threads may become short and one sided though.

Regards,

Trikeman.

 

[stevensson10]

dogs

if you was looking out of your window one nice hot summers day and thinking oh its a lovelyday the birds are singing the sun is shining the flowers look lovely and then you notice outside your gate thers a pile of dog crap like I have to do wash it away and then disinfect the area where its crapped so my grandchildren don't walk in it and spread it about the house. if a man or woman did that just dropped their trousers or knickers and crapped all over the place would you say that's ok .I don't think you would steve

 

[daisy mae]

The trouble is, some humans take on dog ownership without going into the wherefores, have no idea how to treat a dog, care for it train it, responsible dog owners do, they do their homework, or should do, how many take on a dog and then can`t be bothered, the poor dog is left, probably tied up all day, perhaps children tormenting it, pulling it`s tail/ear, or even poking it with sticks, and if that dog gets lose a child is hurt or even worse the poor dog gets the blame and is put down.

I have seen a dog being teased with a stick, a young dog ,a boxer, after a bit it growled the owner hit it, my ex husband grabbed the stick and broke it across his knee and said he would hit the owner with it if he ever did that again, my small children witness this, the owner was my ex Husbands Father, later we took the dog to a rescue centre , he was found a lovely home, we couldn`t have him as we already had a German Shepherd, as well as three small girls.

If children are brought up with respect for animals and learn how to treat them they will do so as adults, it has been proven that adults that attacked other humans and are bullies usually start with ill treating animals, if a dog is being taunted it `s only defence is it`s teeth, so what is the poor dog to do, sorry it is the owners in my book, it is like a baby, a clean slate treated wrong is a menace to society ,a dog is no different in that respect. Young children should never be left alone with a dog, for the dogs sake as much as the children's, and don`t leave a new born/young baby in the same room as the dog without an adult being there., a new babies cry worries some dogs and they can get upset

.No amount of dog licence, chipping or anything else will stop irresponsible dog owners, can you see a policeman going up to a thug in the street with a staffie or pit bull and say" I am going to see if you have a license and your dog is chipped ", no way , and don`t tell me Staffies are soft dogs maybe some are, across the road a lady has five, yes she looks after them, but can only take out one at a time when no other dogs are around, she is a responsible dog owner, it was an ex boyfriend who left them with her when he left and she hadn`t the heart to have them put down, but knows they cannot be trusted with other dogs., they are very good with the family but no one else.

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[Larby]

Broken Link Removed

Alfie says

 

[stevensson10]

I see your point but that is what im not getting at what im getting at is so called dog lovers taking their dogs out in public places letting their dogs crap wherevever they want .if thers no one about they wont clean it up and if they do clean up afterwards they throw on on the hedges and trees its disgusting just as bad as smoking in public places regards steve

 

[Tootles]

Whilst riding a scooter some years ago, I was attacked and bitten in a totally unprovoked attack by a bloody great Pyrenean Mountain Dog.

Rule1. NEVER ride a scooter. Get a PROPER bike!
Rule2. NEVER ride a scooter in the Pyrenees...they go very slowly up mountains. Mountain dogs can run much faster then a scooter.
Rule3, The sheer act of riding a scooter can provoke any dog. Buy a nice Kwaka...

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[Dawn B]

i did not put up the op to start the frigging saga of dog shit yet again.
It's been done to death.
Go start your own thread
seriously p'd off.

 

[Nirvanauk]

Wow, and it's only just gone 06:30hrs.

 

[Dawn B]

Wow, and it's only just gone 06:30hrs.

Do you blame me?

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[Nirvanauk]

Do you blame me?

Not at all, good for you.

 

[sdc77]

Ya can't put up a topic like this and expect people to accept it.
Dogs can be blamed for some things...
But cats.... Now they can be blamed for much more.. (I've seen the film)

Seriously though it's all been said... Some dogs are bed to be bad.. Some trained to be bad... Some just bad..
Most though are our bestest buddies with who we share all our secrets and love to bits.. They can be our soul mates who make us smile with little effort and they also don't like cats (much)

 

[Dawn B]

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[Dawn B]

Alfie says

Never met a dog that didn't like me.
People on the other hand..............................

 

[Snowbird]

Never met a dog that didn't like me.
People on the other hand..............................

Its obvious you never met my old yard dog . That b***ard didnt even like me and I was the one that rescued it and fed it. The meanest thing I ever came across in the animal or human world. A canine cross between Mike Tyson and Lenny McLean. Damn good at keeping undesirables out though. I never heard it bark once, we went to open up one morning and there were 2 would be diesel thieves sitting on top of a 10000 ltr diesel tank begging for mercy. I left them up there till lunchtime in the rain before calling the busy`s :Cool:.

 

[Bluemerle]

The problem as I see it,is people forget to treat dogs as dogs, and treat them as people!
Far too many dogs today are not getting anywhere near the amount of physical exercise they require, in fact some never get the chance to be off lead.
It is important to give a dog the opportunity to run free, sniff around and make use of its basic dog senses.

Equally or even more important is mental stimulation,many breeds of dog become destructive when bored. This destructive nature could be only a step away from tearing a cushion apart to doing the same to a young child.

Never under estimate the power of a dog, My Border Collie is medium build at 19kgs and she is fed on raw meat and bones. I am still amazed at her ability to crunch through bones!!

Parents often ask if their child can say hello to my dog. I always say yes, but make the dog sit,I kneel beside her with my hand through her collar. The reason for this is that young children seem to have an inbuilt cruelty streak, and my dog does get slapped, kicked,poked, and her fur pulled. She looks to me for reassurrance and I move her away from the child.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that dogs make great companions,I would be lost without mine. But we must remember not everyone likes them, and it is down to us to make sure they are respectful when they are out in public, and they are not left with youngsters unsupervised.

Waffle over, I think

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[Nettie]

Yes and no. I agree for all "normal" breeds this is true, no bad dogs only bad owners but there are breeds which have been selected for their aggression or guarding qualities which are inherently dangerous, especially to strangers.

As an extreme example it is possible to train a wolf to be a pet but the "wolf" bit could suddenly resurface at any time. Likewise for certain breeds selected for aggression over generations. You could train one but its aggressive side would always be there and liable to be triggered by some event which makes it forget its training and suddenly act instinctively.

I think there is also a case for some breeds being unsuitable for the average owner. As a generalisation big dogs need to be better trained than little dogs simply because they can do more harm. The most ill trained Yorkie is unlikely to kill anyone but a poorly trained larger dog can. The standard of dog training I see round here is pretty low with the majority, for example, unable to walk at heel, constantly pulling on their leeds. Would I trust them with a strange child? No.

Which brings us back to the point that there are no bad dogs.. just bad owners. If you do not know how to train and control a certain breed of dog then you should not take the decision to own one.

 

[TheBig1]

I disagree with the point made by some that "it's just a dog!!"

not too long ago we might have been discussing our slaves and the term would be slightly different, "it's just a black slave". what gives anyone the right to treat any animal or human as a possession or their slave to do with as they wish?

to me treating an animal or human as an inferior species there to be dominated for your amusement is totally repugnant. Teaching a dog good manners is sensible but remember they are not just some dumb animal

 

[johnp10]

i did not put up the op to start the frigging saga of dog shit yet again.
[HI]
It's been done to death.
[/HI]Go start your own thread
seriously p'd off.

[HI]
So has this "there are no bad dogs" bullshit.
[/HI]

Which brings us back to the point that [HI]there are no bad dogs.. just bad owners.[/HI] If you do not know how to train and control a certain breed of dog then you should not take the decision to own one.

And that's us back to square one.
I agree about training and control, but regarding the underlying concept of "all dogs are blameless, luvvy duvvy things".....

I GIVE IN.

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[johnp10]

Rule1. NEVER ride a scooter. Get a PROPER bike!

Had one of those also, but at that time, Mod girlies were nicer.

Rule2. NEVER ride a scooter in the Pyrenees...they go very slowly up mountains. Mountain dogs can run much faster then a scooter.

They've moved Lowestoft to the Pyrenees??

Rule3, The sheer act of riding a scooter can provoke any dog. Buy a nice Kwaka...

That dog wasn't provoked any further.
It died of lead poisoning soon afterwards.

 

[gibbon]

Dogs

The problem as I see it,is people forget to treat dogs as dogs, and treat them as people!
Far too many dogs today are not getting anywhere near the amount of physical exercise they require, in fact some never get the chance to be off lead.
It is important to give a dog the opportunity to run free, sniff around and make use of its basic dog senses.

Equally or even more important is mental stimulation,many breeds of dog become destructive when bored. This destructive nature could be only a step away from tearing a cushion apart to doing the same to a young child.

Never under estimate the power of a dog, My Border Collie is medium build at 19kgs and she is fed on raw meat and bones. I am still amazed at her ability to crunch through bones!!

Parents often ask if their child can say hello to my dog. I always say yes, but make the dog sit,I kneel beside her with my hand through her collar. The reason for this is that young children seem to have an inbuilt cruelty streak, and my dog does get slapped, kicked,poked, and her fur pulled. She looks to me for reassurrance and I move her away from the child.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that dogs make great companions,I would be lost without mine. But we must remember not everyone likes them, and it is down to us to make sure they are respectful when they are out in public, and they are not left with youngsters unsupervised.

Waffle over, I think

The above sums up my view 100%
Our Dave is a 17 kilo bundle of love when in a domestic setting or a pub.When we are over the fields though (every single day) you would not want him confusing you with a rabbit or pheasant etc
Mind you, he caught a grey squirrel in the woods once & it fought him off, 4 times. He's a real killer is our Dave Not.

 

[Mike B]

[HI]
So has this "there are no bad dogs" bullshit.
[/HI]



And that's us back to square one.
I agree about training and control, but regarding the underlying concept of "all dogs are blameless, luvvy duvvy things".....

I GIVE IN.

On this forum there are a lot of threads about Rugby. Personally it doesn't interest me, so guess what? I don't read them. I don't criticize the poster or tell them what they are allowed to read or post. Get on with it and enjoy.
Me, I'll give it a miss thanks. Only a suggestion, why don't you try this approach, stop reading the dog threads, then you won't get so uptight.

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[johnp10]

On this forum there are a lot of threads about Rugby. Personally it doesn't interest me, so guess what? I don't read them. I don't criticize the poster or tell them what they are allowed to read or post. Get on with it and enjoy.
Me, I'll give it a miss thanks. Only a suggestion, why don't you try this approach, then you won't get so uptight.

I have neither criticised a poster nor told anyone what they are allowed to read.
Don't know where you read that?
I have an opinion, which I am allowed to voice.
That facility is fast disappearing on here.
Are the concepts of fitness as an owner and control of an animal so hard to accept?
(Looking at your profile, I would have thought you'd agree.)
That's all I've advocated, nothing more.

I don't get uptight but I do get bored.

End of thread for me.

 

[Bluemerle]

I disagree with the point made by some that "it's just a dog!!"

not too long ago we might have been discussing our slaves and the term would be slightly different, "it's just a black slave". what gives anyone the right to treat any animal or human as a possession or their slave to do with as they wish?

to me treating an animal or human as an inferior species there to be dominated for your amusement is totally repugnant. Teaching a dog good manners is sensible but remember they are not just some dumb animal

I am not clear if your statement, is based on me saying that a dog should be treated as adog, but I will reply anyway:
My dog is a border collie, and therefore by definition is one of the smartest breeds there are but, she is still a dog she does not and never will have the same values as humans. That does not in my eyes make here inferior to humans, it makes her different.

I personnally don't understand your link to slavery, I cant speak for other dog owners, but my dog is well fed,well housed, exercised, given mental stimulous, does regular reinforcement of her training, and since my retirement spends almost every waking hour with me, and has never been forced to do anything. I dont think you could say that about slaves!!

I certainly dont look on my dog as a possession, and have on occassion commented that I am owned by her.I most certainly do not dominate her for my amusement, I would also find that wrong, however she does amuse me and there is never a day go by when she does not make me laugh.

As stated, she is a Border Collie, and therefore cannot by any stretch of the imagination, be thought of as a dumb animal.

I love this little Border Collie to bits, she is my constant travelling and walking companion, she knows all my secrets, and never lets on. But at the end of the day she is a dog not a person, and as such she is treated as a dog.

The End

 

[Another Lesley]

My Grandparents had dogs, my Parents had dogs, from a young age I was taught to respect them and treat them with kindness and respect. I have dogs, four of the beggars to be precise and never have they bitten or attacked anyone, however, I would also never leave unsupervised babies or children with them and here I mean supervision by an intelligent adult. Children are unpredictable, they also move quickly, can sometimes be a little rough or not careful in their handling of any animal, let alone one that can inflict serious harm. I struggle to think of any domestic situation more dangerous than leaving young children and babies around dogs without proper supervision. Sadly some dog owners are unaware of the tell tale signs of a dog scared, distressed or even in pain because of the antics of children who are mostly just having fun or being curious and poke at eyes, noses, paws and tails. Then when the dogs eventually snaps or growls it is the poor animal deemed at fault.

There are some folk that should not own a stuffed toy let alone a sentient animal, likewise there are folk who should never have been blessed with children because they haven't the wit, ability or interest in raising them correctly.

I shall now get off my soapbox, I am not used to these dizzy heights.

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