Relocating to a Schengen country (1 Viewer)

[Lynne Roy]

If you end up considering Dept 17 in France, between Saintes and Rochefort I have lots of contacts down there for general Insurances, building work, health insurance and property finding services.

Thanks so much , we are looking at Charente Maritime, could they help there?

 

[Abgs]

Thanks so much , we are looking at Charente Maritime, could they help there?

Saintes and Rochefort are Dept 17 which is the Charente Maritime. PM me any towns our areas that you might be interested in and I'll let you know if my contacts cover that area. Feel free to ask me any general questions.

 

[AdamB]

I am also looking for a place to buy/rent in Spain and hopefully after I have my second COVID-19 injection on 11 Jun (already booked through the NHS website), I will take a trip to Spain to find my 'forever house'. As background information to moving to an EU country Post BREXIT, I watched the 'A Place in the Sun' webinar Post BREXIT moves (Spain) which is very informative.

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[nicholsong]

gus-lopez The Spanish consulate, site seems to say the same - if you are a British passport (ie 3rd country) holder then visiting another schengen area country from Spain is subject to the same 90d rule.
"
As of the end of the transition period British citizens and their non-EU family members will be subject to all Spanish immigration rules for third-country nationals, meaning any privileges under EU freedom of movement will come to an end.

However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020.

In compliance with EU Regulation 2018/1806 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 November 2018 British passport holders travelling to Schengen countries for holidays, business or to visit family do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day-period, provided the visit is not for gainful activity. Please note that the 90 days will start counting from the date they enter any of the Schengen countries, including Spain. "

FFI See <Broken link removed>

Thanks for that quote from the Spanish Consulate in London

The third paragraph "However, UK Nationals ........" applies to my situation in Poland, but I enquired from British Consulate, Warsaw, stating that I was here under the Withdrawal Agreement before 31st Dec 2020 and this morning I got a reply from them stating travel to other Schengen States would be limited to 90/180. Not Free Movement.

They did not refer to the fact I was covered by the Withdrawal Agreement, so maybe they missed that fact. I wrote straight back to them quoting that third paragraph, so let's see what their response will be.

Geoff

 

[Purple2]

Worth noting that the non lucrative visa process needs to be kick started in the UK with visit(S) to Spanish consulate. All docs need to be officially translated. DBS check and private medical cover approved in Spain. ‘Fixed’ address in Spain, uncertain at the moment if they will allow a ‘pitch’, unlikely I suspect. Big one is either about 32000e in Spanish account in savings or a independent income of same amount. Once granted you have 3 months to go to Spain and once there a month to register the padron and once accepted completely then a minimum of 183 days in the country for tax purposes. Spanish driving test.
Process is a bit easier in Portugal

 

[gus-lopez]

taking a driving test in Spain just inconvenient,

Be aware that it isn't anything like a Uk test.

According to HM government's site at

Take no notice of them .they have no idea what they are talking about unless it is from the UK resident view.

I guess it is the health care costs which will be the critical factor for some.

or the need now for a massive income, whereas under EU rules before they could only ask for the equivalent minimum non contributory assistance allowance of 5300€ ?

gus-lopez The Spanish consulate, site seems to say the same - if you are a British passport (ie 3rd country) holder then visiting another schengen area country from Spain is subject to the same 90d rule.
"
As of the end of the transition period British citizens and their non-EU family members will be subject to all Spanish immigration rules for third-country nationals, meaning any privileges under EU freedom of movement will come to an end.

However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020.

In compliance with EU Regulation 2018/1806 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 November 2018 British passport holders travelling to Schengen countries for holidays, business or to visit family do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day-period, provided the visit is not for gainful activity. Please note that the 90 days will start counting from the date they enter any of the Schengen countries, including Spain. "

FFI See <Broken link removed>

And that is there problem. The part you have highlighted applies ONLY to UK citizens resident in the UK. Nothing to do with British citizens resident in an EU country & having Withdrawal act rights. The following (3rd) paragraphof your link is the one that counts for a British citizen resident in another EU state.

This is the spanish version of the withdrawal act from the Moncloa & the english version. The ONLY rights not retained under the WA is the right to vote in EU elections; the right to stand as a member for the EU elections & the use of the EU citizens helplines.
All other rights are retained as stated here in the spanish version.
https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

Which clearly states as above in paragraph 3 that everything we had including the right to spend up to 90 days in another state then leave & go next door & another up to 90 days if so wished , ad infinitum. The same as a national does.
Additionally I also draw your attention to this farther down in the link;

"Furthermore, this new document is a physical card that contains biometric elements which, among others, facilitate the performance of administrative procedures by the holder, including the ability to cross external borders of the EU."

which confirms my statement that a passport is not required to travel inside the EU schengen area.

Thanks for that quote from the Spanish Consulate in London

The third paragraph "However, UK Nationals ........" applies to my situation in Poland, but I enquired from British Consulate, Warsaw, stating that I was here under the Withdrawal Agreement before 31st Dec 2020 and this morning I got a reply from them stating travel to other Schengen States would be limited to 90/180. Not Free Movement.

They did not refer to the fact I was covered by the Withdrawal Agreement, so maybe they missed that fact. I wrote straight back to them quoting that third paragraph, so let's see what their response will be.

Geoff

Yes they really struggle to comprehend what the rights of anyone resident in the EU are & have been maintained under the WA.

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[nicholsong]

or the need now for a massive income, whereas under EU rules before they could only ask for the equivalent minimum non contributory assistance allowance of 5300€ ?

Or just an S1 form from NHS Newcastle to register on the local Health Scheme, as I have done in Poland

And that is there problem. The part you have highlighted applies ONLY to UK citizens resident in the UK. Nothing to do with British citizens resident in an EU country & having Withdrawal act rights. The following (3rd) paragraphof your link is the one that counts for a British citizen resident in another EU state.

other rights are retained as stated here in the spanish version.
ht
This is the spanish version of the withdrawal act from the Moncloa & the english version. The ONLY rights not retained under the WA is the right to vote in EU elections; the right to stand as a member for the EU elections & the use of the EU citizens helplines.

All
tps://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

Which clearly states as above in paragraph 3 that everything we had including the right to spend up to 90 days in another state then leave & go next door & another up to 90 days if so wished , ad infinitum. The same as a national does.
Additionally I also draw your attention to this farther down in the link;

"Furthermore, this new document is a physical card that contains biometric elements which, among others, facilitate the performance of administrative procedures by the holder, including the ability to cross external borders of the EU."

which confirms my statement that a passport is not required to travel inside the EU schengen area.

Yes they [HM Gov.] really struggle to comprehend what the rights of anyone resident in the EU are & have been maintained under the WA.

All agreed.

The only doubt in my mind is whether the Polish government when they issue my Residency Card will swerve the WA rules and substitute something else on the biometric, and the British government will know but do nothing.

EU rules do not seem to mean much to this PiS government, including refusal against ECJ Case requiring them to register my RHD MH, but several other rules.

We press on undaunted.

Geoff

 

[Spawn_e_git]

Whilst I've got at least 20 years before retirement where I might have the time to spend more than 90/180 in EU, I've just applied for Irish citizenship which will give me FoM but also if we ever did decide to move I would have no major issues.
It wont help the wife but by then a 90 day on/off relationship might be the saviour of us
A friend has just brought a place in Spain and the hoops of a non-lucratuve and the tax on his earnings/pensions not to mention dale of assets makes him accept the 90/180.

 

[Lynne Roy]

Can I ask if you have enjoyed life in France and are you returning because of difficulties there x

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[bobandjanie]

"Furthermore, this new document is a physical card that contains biometric elements which, among others, facilitate the performance of administrative procedures by the holder, including the ability to cross external borders of the EU."

Thanks for all that Richard, I have read about the 90/180 thought about it, reread it.... You are right, one of the rights retained under the Withrawal agreement for those of us resident in EU is that the 90/180 rules are EU country specific, each country is treated separately That makes travelling life a whole lot easier!
As for the above. I had to turn the NFC on my phone off because it continuously tried to read my TIE card Janie

 

[Oscar]

Whilst the residency process has changed, it’s just different, not impossible. There are thousands of US and Canadian citizens living in Europe, and they’ve always had the 3rd country national rules to apply, so exactly the same will now apply for U.K. citizens. Simple really.

However, what it isn’t is a way for motorhomes to simply stay longer than the 90 days, it’s a life change, you are moving to another country, with all the other changes that that entails including vehicles, driving, taxation and health provision. You are emigrating, not having a long holiday! ( .....although it feels like it )

Do you know what the situation is now regarding driving licences - is it still a straight swap to portuguese (minus the C1 entitlement) or, is it like Spain (for example) where you now have to retake both the theory & practical driving test? We wondered if your motorhome was 4250 kgs & you matriculated it in Portugal, would you be able to drive it on a portuguese licence?
Cheers

 

[ashley 1340]

Don't forget some countries taxation on incomes

Be carefull with france because they have a global wealth tax each year , if you don't declare everything the penalties are very steep. this includes overseas bank accounts and property.

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[BreweryDave]

Do you know what the situation is now regarding driving licences - is it still a straight swap to portuguese (minus the C1 entitlement) or, is it like Spain (for example) where you now have to retake both the theory & practical driving test? We wondered if your motorhome was 4250 kgs & you matriculated it in Portugal, would you be able to drive it on a portuguese licence?
Cheers

It’s a bit of a minefield right now!

It used to be a straight swap minus C1. However, I have read anecdotally of this being challenged recently and folk keeping it.

In any event, the class B car licence actually covers specifically motorhomes up to 4250 here.

I have applied for my exchange 3 times on 3 different government procedures, they keep changing it, for the past year! Whilst I have had an automatic response with a ref number, I still haven’t had an appointment for the actual exchange! The latest submission was actually after Jan 1st, and I chased it only last week, but still nada!

Ive not heard anything factual about folk having to take a Portuguese test, although apparently this is what was supposed to be the case after B, I believe those already resident and subject to the WA are still applying for a straight exchange.

Burocracy and Portugal dont really go well together

 

[jumar]

Do you know what the situation is now regarding driving licences - is it still a straight swap to portuguese (minus the C1 entitlement) or, is it like Spain (for example) where you now have to retake both the theory & practical driving test? We wondered if your motorhome was 4250 kgs & you matriculated it in Portugal, would you be able to drive it on a portuguese licence?
Cheers

I have a Spanish driving license....I have managed to retain my C1 intitlement...however jumartoo lost hers...we both did license swaps together...both qualified for Grandfather/Grandmother rights...
Don't see many Spanish MH,s over 3,500 kg..I was told this is due to license restrictions or even separate test....not in a position to confirm this...

 

[Oscar]

Portugal Resident - Portugal news and lifestyle - Homepage

Portugal news and lifestyle portal in English. The online daily news version of our weekly newspaper Algarve Resident, established in 1989.

www.portugalresident.com

Looks as if Portugal is coming off the red list from Monday .....................

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[Tony V]

My sister has already started the process of moving to Portugal. I should be there now but..... covid and all that. Seriously considering buying a patch of land and parking up for 90 days at a time. flying back home for a while and then back for another 90 days.

 

[Oscar]

Regarding the driving licence exchange/entitlement in Portugal - an interesting article suggesting obtaining a DVLA "Certificate of Entitlement" to be submitted with/at the time of exchange may include all your entitlements ............

Driving licence exchange

Driving licence exchange. pIn this new monthly column, afpop, Portugal’s largest foreign residents’ association, aims to answer some of the most frequently-asked questions by members

www.portugalresident.com

 

[Drexxer]

flying back home for a while

Flying back for 90 days?

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[TONCAZ]

Spain is a possibility, as is pretty well everywhere else. The application process will be the same as other 3rd countries. You'll need to prove minimum income as well as medical cover (unless you're working here) etc. Just because the UK left the EU it doesn't mean you can't move to an EU country; you just now have to apply and meet the qualifying requirements rather than having an automatic right.

I think Spain is the most expensive, you need to show around 24,000 euro a year (think that's per adult), Portugal seems better at only 12,000 euro a year, there is probably a way round this, a smartish lawyer will know a way round this especially in Spain

 

[jumar]

I think Spain is the most expensive, you need to show around 24,000 euro a year (think that's per adult), Portugal seems better at only 12,000 euro a year, there is probably a way round this, a smartish lawyer will know a way round this especially in Spain

I have a smartish lawyer friend here where we live in Spain...he often advises me of what I should and shouldn't do...at no time would he advise how to bend or break the law....the rules or the Withdrawal Agreement and what's required to obtain residencia is not something that one can workaround....the procedures we needed to follow to obtain residencia were in Black and White....they even wouldn't accept a bank account that didn't include jumartoo name on it.....she needed to open her own account, which I credited with the required amount.....

 

[TONCAZ]

I have a smartish lawyer friend here where we live in Spain...he often advises me of what I should and shouldn't do...at no time would he advise how to bend or break the law....the rules or the Withdrawal Agreement and what's required to obtain residencia is not something that one can workaround....the procedures we needed to follow to obtain residencia were in Black and White....they even wouldn't accept a bank account that didn't include jumartoo name on it.....she needed to open her own account, which I credited with the required amount.....

I totally agree that the rules for residencia cannot be got round, it was the finance side of the application that was a concern to me, you would need one hell of a pension or funds to maintain what is a very nice life style

Cheers

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[DAC and Jan]

I appreciate we will probably have to jump through hoops, but can anyone advise if it is still possible to get a residencia anywhere

Hi, Lynne & Roy
Just scrolling through and saw your message. If you do consider Spain!
We finished paying the mortgage on our House in La Zenia after 15 years,and after spending a year touring Portugal and Spain have decided we would like to move to the Andalusia area and look at opening a camper stop and maybe some storage. So our house is going on the market now the light is now on at the end of the tunnel,as it were.
Kind regards
Paul & Jan

 

[TONCAZ]

Hi, Lynne & Roy
Just scrolling through and saw your message. If you do consider Spain!
We finished paying the mortgage on our House in La Zenia after 15 years,and after spending a year touring Portugal and Spain have decided we would like to move to the Andalusia area and look at opening a camper stop and maybe some storage. So our house is going on the market now the light is now on at the end of the tunnel,as it were.
Kind regards
Paul & Jan

Sounds great, all the best with your move to Andalusia

Cheers

Tony

 

[jumar]

I totally agree that the rules for residencia cannot be got round, it was the finance side of the application that was a concern to me, you would need one hell of a pension or funds to maintain what is a very nice life style

Cheers

The procedure to obtain residencia is not a legal procedure that needs the service of a Solicitor.....an application must now be made to the Embassy of the country you reside in..there are more steps to take other than financial ones....
Up to last year it was not difficult or too costly....but now it's still possible but with strings attached and generally less simple..Happy to have done ours when we did and hope to continue to enjoy living the Spanish lifestyle..

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[BreweryDave]

Regarding the driving licence exchange/entitlement in Portugal - an interesting article suggesting obtaining a DVLA "Certificate of Entitlement" to be submitted with/at the time of exchange may include all your entitlements ............

Driving licence exchange

Driving licence exchange. pIn this new monthly column, afpop, Portugal’s largest foreign residents’ association, aims to answer some of the most frequently-asked questions by members

www.portugalresident.com

Until very recently, they required that form (D737) to be attached to all licence applications, but still only gave you the categories you had passed a test fir. Apparently now they are accepting the code!
And DVLA only post or fax the form, no email.

 

[gus-lopez]

Don't see many Spanish MH,s over 3,500 kg..I was told this is due to license restrictions or even separate test....not in a position to confirm this...

Yes they have to take a test for everything even the over 750kgs caravans or trailers.

I think Spain is the most expensive, you need to show around 24,000 euro a year (think that's per adult), Portugal seems better at only 12,000 euro a year, there is probably a way round this, a smartish lawyer will know a way round this especially in Spain

I think it is more than that ? I know the Americans used to have to show $75,000 but can't remember whether that was a couple or each?

 

[Cocoro]

Not correct. It remains the same as it was when in the EU.Yes you are still only allowed 90 days say in France but you can then go next door in to Germany for a couple of days & return if you wish. Or move on to another EU state.
The rights are enshrined as they were previously under the withdrawal act, in that you have the same rights as a national . additionally there is no requirement to carry your passport once in possession of the new TIE card with biometrics when travelling in the EU.

Hi Guz ....how can we explain to say Immigration in Rotterdam that we maintain free movement? I just can’t find any written evidence that states if you are a British Citizen with residency in an EU State we retain free movement. I too wrote to the British High Commission here in Cyprus who relies with this...

GOV.UK

Thank you for your reply of 02/03/2021
We do appreciate your situation regarding your business repairing hail damage throughout the summer months in Europe.
Your MEU1 document declares your residence rights, and other rights deriving from residency, in Cyprus. Since you were legally resident in Cyprus before 1 January 2021, you have the right to work in Cyprus, as long as you remain legally resident there.

You may travel to other countries for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a visa for purposes such as tourism. To stay longer than 90 days in any 180-day period, or specifically to work or for business travel, you must meet the entry requirements set out by each country you are travelling to. This could mean applying for a visa or work permit.
You may wish to approach the countries in which you have most work in advance of the summer season, to enquire if a visa that will cover you for the period you normally travel is available. You will need to discuss this with each country you wish to do business in.

This is driving me crazy...

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[Burgo]

Hi Guz ....how can we explain to say Immigration in Rotterdam that we maintain free movement? I just can’t find any written evidence that states if you are a British Citizen with residency in an EU State we retain free movement. I too wrote to the British High Commission here in Cyprus who relies with this..

Isn't this covered in 2.2.1 (article 14.1) of the EU Commission Notices gus-lopez attached earlier, under Article 14 Right of exit and entry? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52020XC0520(05)&from=En

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