Red Diesel (1 Viewer)

ShiftZZ

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2008
21,391
85,367
Dark Side of the Moon
Funster No
1,546
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2007
Just seen some discussion on Red Diesel on another forum.

I know its illegal, but what are the thoughts on here~?
Boat owners are currently allowed to use it on their recreational boats, why not us?

Thoughts?
 

ruffingitsmoothly

Deceased RIP
Jan 2, 2008
553
70
West of Southampton edge
Funster No
1,103
MH
A Class RV
Exp
12
Just seen some discussion on Red Diesel on another forum.

I know its illegal, but what are the thoughts on here~?
Boat owners are currently allowed to use it on their recreational boats, why not us?

Thoughts?

I think that the risk of having your very expensive Motorhome/RV impounded and a very heavy fine imposed are too great for the savings made, also 'Red Diesel' is nowhere near as cheap as it used to be at about 75ppl at the present time.

Apparently I have heard that 'Red Diesel' is to be done away with, and only legitimate users such as plant operators and farmers will have to claim back duty from Customs and Excise.

Regards Pat
 

moandick

Free Member
Jul 28, 2007
1,312
112
Landrake, Cornwall
Funster No
24
MH
Euro-shed
Exp
40 +
I know very little about red diesel but have been frequently told that it is not as refined as normal road diesel and therefore more liable to damage a 'fast' modern engine.

On top of that, we have several times witnessed road side fuels checks taking place and would not wish to jeopardise our RV or car.
 

Tony Santara

Free Member
Jul 26, 2007
1,372
116
Cheshire (ex Mancunian)
Funster No
17
MH
A class RV
Exp
since 1994
I know very little about red diesel but have been frequently told that it is not as refined as normal road diesel and therefore more liable to damage a 'fast' modern engine.

On top of that, we have several times witnessed road side fuels checks taking place and would not wish to jeopardise our RV or car.

I don't believe that it's not as refined I used for many a year in my trucks on Middle East runs where when outside the EEC it was legal to use it didn't affect my vehicles in any way, its just a dye for ID purposes

However I agree with Pat (ruffingitsmoothly) why chance having your motorhome impounded and fined especialy mid holiday because you could be caught anywhere in the EEC countries
 
X

Xoxoc

Deleted User
AFAIK Red Diesel is exactly the same as 'ordinary' diesel except for the adding of detectable additives (including dye).

I was once told that the reason that boats could use red diesel was an historical thank you for private boat owners who used their boats at Dunkirk.

I think that red diesel for pleasure craft use is now prohibited.

HTH

Bryan

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

jakeontour

Free Member
Aug 22, 2007
38
0
In front of this computer when I should be out in
Funster No
147
Simple advice has to be, don't even think about it unless you are driving something very old tech and low value, and even then I wouldn't risk it.

I'm told by a friend who works in the petrochemical industry that red diesel is the same basic product as ordinary diesel, but with a dye added. However it is a technically inferior product as it doesn't have any of the additives that are essential if you hope to get anything like a useful life out of your vehicle's engine.

If the Revenue catch you running on the road with red diesel in your tank, expect to say goodbye to your pride and joy (or pay a large fine). It's not just the fuel in the tank, the dye stains almost impossible to shift out of fuel filters etc. and they do check.

A former colleague was running his new company Audi on red diesel. Took it into the main dealer for a routine service and got a visit from the Revenue (and his P45) :cry:
 

Gonewiththewind

Free Member
Sep 13, 2007
846
36
Lancashire
Funster No
286
Exp
July 2007
I think that you young bucks need to know the why's and where-fores.Fuel duty, along with Road Tax was introduced to cover the cost of building and repairing Roads. Hence Farmers and Boats where never included, hence the introduction of Red Diesel, to define Tax Not Paid. But of cause all that has changed and the taxes now go into the main coffers and are spent any where the government wants.

Now to today, where by abolition of priveliges. Free TV licences at age 75. Now fixed at a year (Ithink it is 1929, not sure). Classic car tax was free after 25 Years now fixed to a year (again not sure of date !97?). when the goverment was asked why, the response was "this country cannot afford free riders. in a few years all those born before 1929 will be dead and all vehicles built before 197- will have been recycled. No more free TV licences, No more free road taxes, every one paying thier way. And now the inclusion of fuel tax on red Diesel.
 

ruffingitsmoothly

Deceased RIP
Jan 2, 2008
553
70
West of Southampton edge
Funster No
1,103
MH
A Class RV
Exp
12
I agree with Tony I don't think that modern, extremely expensive, highly sophistcated construction/agricultural equipment would be made to run on inferior diesel!

As for the staining of filters tanks etc this is irrelevant as long as the vehicle when stopped is running on white derv doesnt matter what staining there is, furthermore if the vehicle is 'dipped' off road ie on site or wherever you can still be done if the vehicle is taxed!!

I was also told that the Police and Customs now have special cameras that can detect the dye coming out of your exhaust as they are following you, I find this hard to believe though.

Regards Pat
 

algill

Free Member
Dec 12, 2007
625
213
Derbyshire
Funster No
1,014
MH
Fifth wheel
Exp
Since 2007
We run construction equipment and at the moment red diesel is 60p per litre (if you buy in bulk). This time last year it was 40p - so it's making life difficult as we can't pass the full extra cost on to the customer. I just feel very sorry for the truckers :cry:

We would never put red diesel in our vans as it's too great a risk. The fine is up to £3000 and vehicle impounded. :Eeek:

From November this year we will pay full tax on our diesel - but will be able to claim it back (supposedly and for how long I wonder).

Yet again we are being used as unpaid tax collectors :Angry:
 

Peter JohnsCross MH

Funster
Deceased RIP
Jan 5, 2008
9,617
6,195
East Sussex
Funster No
1,134
MH
Autotrail
Exp
1995
Modern boat engines these days are as sophisticated as a car or lorry, unfortunately red is going to be taxed I think from November 2008 and at a mile per gallon it ain't funny!!:cry:

Gasoil (heating oil is the same as red diesel and thats 5% VAT................)
 

American Dream

Free Member
Aug 20, 2007
0
156
Lincoln
Funster No
125
MH
?
Exp
?
As for the staining of filters tanks etc this is irrelevant as long as the vehicle when stopped is running on white derv doesnt matter what staining there is, furthermore if the vehicle is 'dipped' off road ie on site or wherever you can still be done if the vehicle is taxed!!

I was also told that the Police and Customs now have special cameras that can detect the dye coming out of your exhaust as they are following you, I find this hard to believe though.

Regards Pat

Invokes Visions of Police with RED faces PatLink Removed.:RollEyes:Link RemovedLink RemovedLink Removed

I'm surprised they haven't added a coloured smoke additive to it yet.

Too much watching the Reds I guess.:Doh:
 
Last edited:

Thepips

Trade Member
Sep 26, 2007
493
2
Basingstoke
Funster No
441
MH
RV
Exp
6
Marine diesel engines are incredibly sophisticated. Volvo's main stream engine is a 24 valve 3.7 litre straight six. It's turbo charged AND super charged to deliver 300 hp. It's designed to run continuously at 3300 rpm, 200 rpm below the red line. They're strong enough to cope with the props coming out of the water and letting the engines run over the redline and then cope with the torque transfer when the prop hits the water again. Truly astonishing engines.
As I understand it the leisure use of red diesel is stopping 1st November. When filling the boat with red diesel, the boat operator has to self-declare his status and pay the full duty if using the boat for leisure purposes. Hmmm I see a slight flaw in this plan!

Regards
Doug
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,454
50,470
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
I think that the risk of having your very expensive Motorhome/RV impounded and a very heavy fine imposed are too great for the savings made, also 'Red Diesel' is nowhere near as cheap as it used to be at about 75ppl at the present time.

Apparently I have heard that 'Red Diesel' is to be done away with, and only legitimate users such as plant operators and farmers will have to claim back duty from Customs and Excise.

Regards Pat

i also heard this and im inclined to beleive it.

government way to stop us normal motorists taking the risk and using red, i suppose.

john.
 

Thepips

Trade Member
Sep 26, 2007
493
2
Basingstoke
Funster No
441
MH
RV
Exp
6
i also heard this and im inclined to beleive it.

government way to stop us normal motorists taking the risk and using red, i suppose.

john.

Here's the story from a source I'd trust, namely the Royal Yachting Association.
The RYA and BMF (British Marine Federation) can now confirm that the key features of the new scheme for charging duty on marine diesel to be introduced by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) with effect from 1 November 2008 will be:

• Private users can continue to use marked fuel (red diesel) providing they make a simple declaration to the supplier and pay the full duty rate for heavy oil;
• Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs) will be responsible for declaring the duty collected to HMRC; and,
• Fuel purchased for domestic use (i.e. not for propulsion of the craft) can continue to be purchased at the rebated rate.

It does mean that suppliers of red diesel will have to become RDCOs which may be a bit of red tape too much for the smaller outlets. I find the self-declaration element intriguing. As far as I can tell the RDCO simply takes the word of the purchaser. So you can still buy it, state you're using it legally and put it in your RV!

Regards
Doug
 
Last edited:

Digger Driver

Free Member
Oct 4, 2007
578
4
Lancashire
Funster No
541
MH
C Class
Exp
1
Just seen some discussion on Red Diesel on another forum.

I know its illegal, but what are the thoughts on here~?
Boat owners are currently allowed to use it on their recreational boats, why not us?

Thoughts?
Not on the canals!
To use red on a canal boat you have to have a commercial vessel! (My site manager has bored me to death on this matter)

My personal thought on red (as someone who gets it for free) are?????
I wish my engine was diesel!!!!
I have even thought of taking 15 gallons home each week and stockpiling it!
 

playbyte

xMember
May 4, 2008
36
0
Kirton-in-Lindsey
Funster No
2,506
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
3
Just a thought, If tax on diesel is for rebuilding roads etc and theres no tax on red diesel for farm vehicles why are there so many farm tractors on the road!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:

Digger Driver

Free Member
Oct 4, 2007
578
4
Lancashire
Funster No
541
MH
C Class
Exp
1
Being honest!
I used red for years and all you need is a CB radio!
The truckers will tell you well in advance where the ministry checkpoints are!
 

Gonewiththewind

Free Member
Sep 13, 2007
846
36
Lancashire
Funster No
286
Exp
July 2007
Just a thought, If tax on diesel is for rebuilding roads etc and theres no tax on red diesel for farm vehicles why are there so many farm tractors on the road!

Not IS, WAS. It is, with road tax used to fund any thing including NHS, education amongst other things.

And red users such as farmers are permited to use highway to gain access to his differant fields. They would not travel thousands of miles as you and I. I have known the occasional farmer who used red for his landy untill customs was waiting for him, wasnt happy with fine, but as he said "you takes the chance".
 

Terry

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 27, 2007
11,968
9,218
Lincolnshire
Funster No
1,075
MH
A class
Exp
Can't remember ;)
:ROFLMAO:There is no diffence in red apart from the dye.This shows up in dip tests and in your filters if they want to go deeper :ROFLMAO: 60p per ltr red-- 1.25 ish for white :Eeek: it's all taxes & ripping us off :whatthe: if they can produce & sell red they can do the same on white :Angry:why has petrol only gone up say 10p to D goig up 20p when petrol takes more refineing ? simple there are selling more D cars etc now so they tax us more ::whatthe:Angry::whatthe::ROFLMAO::cry: rant over :ROFLMAO:
terry

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Thepips

Trade Member
Sep 26, 2007
493
2
Basingstoke
Funster No
441
MH
RV
Exp
6
:ROFLMAO:There is no diffence in red apart from the dye.This shows up in dip tests and in your filters if they want to go deeper :ROFLMAO: 60p per ltr red-- 1.25 ish for white :Eeek: it's all taxes & ripping us off :whatthe: if they can produce & sell red they can do the same on white :Angry:why has petrol only gone up say 10p to D goig up 20p when petrol takes more refineing ? simple there are selling more D cars etc now so they tax us more ::whatthe:Angry::whatthe::ROFLMAO::cry: rant over :ROFLMAO:
terry

Red diesel starts out as white diesel and then a dye is added so the production process is identical. It's not a rip-off, the country voted the Labour party in three times yet they are renowned for tax and spend. I didn't vote for them so it's not my fault:roflmto:
I'm not aware of any chances in taxation so I don't think you can blame the government for the sudden differential. (There's lots of other things you can blame them for though). This time, I can only lay the blame with the oil companies.

Regards
Doug
 

Bulletguy

Free Member
Feb 7, 2008
2,043
8
Cheshire/Staffs
Funster No
1,441
Fuel duty, along with Road Tax was introduced to cover the cost of building and repairing Roads. But of course all that has changed and the taxes now go into the main coffers and are spent any where the government wants.

Road "repairs"?

If only they did a decent job of building in the first place, and then kept them maintained!

UK road surfaces are atrociously poor and full of potholes and cracks. A road i use to travel to and from work is actually subsiding with a five or six metre drop into somebodys back garden!

Britain is a fast developing third world nation!
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,454
50,470
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
Red diesel starts out as white diesel and then a dye is added so the production process is identical. It's not a rip-off, the country voted the Labour party in three times yet they are renowned for tax and spend. I didn't vote for them so it's not my fault:roflmto:
I'm not aware of any chances in taxation so I don't think you can blame the government for the sudden differential. (There's lots of other things you can blame them for though). This time, I can only lay the blame with the oil companies.

Regards
Doug


dont think thats gonna happen again anytime soon. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,454
50,470
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
Road "repairs"?


UK road surfaces are atrociously poor and full of potholes and cracks.
!

we have newly tarmaced roads all over scarborough but unfortunatly they've stuck new traffic lights every 500mtrs.:Doh:

new lights at junctions that dont need 'em, junctions that do dont get 'em.

god only knows how much this will drain the resources to no visible advantage.

the council blurb states.......scarboroughs new integrated traffic system...to speed up traffic flow. :Eeek:

pity they didnt get someone that lives in and knows the town to design the system but thats too easy.

seem to have gone off thread a bit..........sorry.

john.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top