Pump/Water/Boiler issues

[bruno66]

Hi all, another pump/water related query for you wise people.

I've connected a brand new Reich pump to the set up in the pictures below, water is flowing to the kitchen (very low pressure) to the toilet area sink but only when the kitchen tap is open, and to the shower with decent flow. Something obviously isn't right so I wondered if someone could educate me. I can't understand why there's two pipes from the outside of the cap but only one connection for the pump inside? What's that about?

Also and it's probably completely unconnected but my Truma Combi 4 is working in that it appears to be heating but not providing hot water. There's no fault light showing so it appears to be working as I say but the water is still cold from the tap even after 48 hours of the boiler being switched on to its highest level 60°

Would these issues possibly be connected? Or just unlucky that both are happening at the same time?

 

[peterc10]

One pipe is for suction the other is an overflow.

Sounds like the microswitch in your toilet tap has broken. They are pigs to change

 

[bruno66]

One pipe is for suction the other is an overflow.

Sounds like the microswitch in your toilet tap has broken. They are pigs to change

But it works with good pressure as long as the kitchen one is open

 

[GeoffnDee]

If your taps have micro switches fitted the water pump will be turned on by opening the kitchen tap (operating its micro switch) and water will be pumped out of it and any other tap/outlet that is also open.

 

[bruno66]

Ah ok, I did not expect that. New tap required then.

Any thoughts on the boiler issue?

If your taps have micro switches fitted the water pump will be turned on by opening the kitchen tap (operating its micro switch) and water will be pumped out of it and any other tap/outlet that is also open.

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[GeoffnDee]

bruno66 Before you buy a new tap check the wiring connections and that power is getting to the switch, which is under the tap, is ok , www.olearymotorhomes.co.uk should be able to help with the correct type of micro-switch operated tap (or maybe just a switch) if you do need one.
Are you sure that water is going into the Combi ok , to enable it be heated up ?

 

[bruno66]

bruno66 Before you buy a new tap check the wiring connections and that power is getting to the switch, which is under the tap, is ok , www.olearymotorhomes.co.uk should be able to help with the correct type of micro-switch operated tap (or maybe just a switch) if you do need one.
Are you sure that water is going into the Combi ok , to enable it be heated up ?

At times like these I really wish I understood this kind of thing but it always seems like a foreign language to me I'm afraid!

Do you mean to check if the connections have come loose or to use an electric supply tester (for want of the correct word!). The bathroom tap is Keramik E so it definitely has a microswitch but that's as far as my technical knowledge goes unfortunately.

How can I check the water going to the combi? I've operated the frost protection switch and water is flowing from that so I assumed that was an indication of water being in it, would that be a silly assumption for me to make?

 

[Lenny HB]

On the tap you will find two brown wires coming out of the bottom of the tap they will have connectors to the wiring loom. If when you open the tap the pump does not start but if you connect the wires together and the pump starts it's a problem with the switch in the tap.

You get 3 problems, one of the wires to the switch breaks inside the tap or they wire breaks off the switch due to corrosion or a faulty switch.

With the hot water are you getting water flowing with the tap in the hot position?

Are you running the Combi on gas or mains?
If on mains try it on gas if it works one or both of the mains elements has probably gone.

 

[bruno66]

On the tap you will find two brown wires coming out of the bottom of the tap they will have connectors to the wiring loom. If when you open the tap the pump does not start but if you connect the wires together and the pump starts it's a problem with the switch in the tap.

You get 3 problems, one of the wires to the switch breaks inside the tap or they wire breaks off the switch due to corrosion or a faulty switch.

With the hot water are you getting water flowing with the tap in the hot position?

Are you running the Combi on gas or mains?
If on mains try it on gas if it works one or both of the mains elements has probably gone.

Hi again Lenny, thanks for your reply. You must have the patience of a saint!

I think the tap issue seems to have sorted. I removed the two spade connections from the tap, re connected them the other way round, then back to the correct way (I think!) and pushed them well home and hey presto the tap is working now. Does that seem like something that could be a scenario that you'd expect, some sort of electrical glitch?

With the boiler, I'm getting full flow just not hot. There is warm air from the heating so would that not suggest the combi is working ok or does it not work like that? I don't think I have the option to heat the water off mains. I thought it was a gas only option would the photo I'm attaching now give any clues?

From reading the Truma booklet it does appear that the heating can be run without water though so that should maybe give me clue that the hot water and heating are completely separate....

 

[pappajohn]

I think the tap issue seems to have sorted. I removed the two spade connections from the tap, re connected them the other way round, then back to the correct way (I think!) and pushed them well home and hey presto the tap is working now.

I think, by disturbing the wires, you have temporarily reconnected a broken wire.
(The wire strands have broken INSIDE the outer sheath.)
Chances are it will fail again

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[bruno66]

I think, by disturbing the wires, you have temporarily reconnected a broken wire.
(The wire strands have broken INSIDE the outer sheath.)
Chances are it will fail again

How can I find out where a break potentially could be?

 

[bruno66]

Would you expect the connection from the pump to supply to be as in this photo? Or should it be blue to green with brown to pink?

 

[bruno66]

Also I'm wondering does the water always seems like it's airlocked. I usually expect after refilling the system after draining down that there is spluttering before proper flow, when air is being pushed out, but it seems to be happening every time after I've switched off the taps for 5 minutes or so that the system still has the air lock in it. I'd expect after the initial spluttering etc, once that flow is normal then it should continue that way not be spluttering again on consecutive tap operation?

 

[GeoffnDee]

Removing the spade connections and replacing them may have cleaned the corroded terminals I would remove them again and clean the terminals and then replace them and hope that solves the problem ( if not you may need to replace the wiring terminals ,as papajohn has said) , The photo shows the control set for 40 degree hot water, but ,as well as the green ON light there should also be a yellow light lit up on the control to indicate water heating up. (It goes out when the water is up to the required temperature)It would be worth checking the connections on the wiring link between the back of the control and at the combi (under its wiring cover)
The air lock problem could be a faulty non-return valve or a poor pipe connection allowing air into the system

 

[mitzimad]

usually spluttering means the water is running back to the tank non return valve on the pump has failed

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[bruno66]

Removing the spade connections and replacing them may have cleaned the corroded terminals I would remove them again and clean the terminals and then replace them and hope that solves the problem ( if not you may need to replace the wiring terminals ,as papajohn has said) , The photo shows the control set for 40 degree hot water, but ,as well as the green ON light there should also be a yellow light lit up on the control to indicate water heating up. (It goes out when the water is up to the required temperature)
The air lock problem could be a faulty non-return valve or a poor pipe connection allowing air into the system

Thanks GeoffnDee, the connections look pretty clean but I'll give them a clean and hope for the best there.

I've had the water heater on with the yellow light indicating heating. It's been on again while I've been trying to test the water and is now green only indicating the water should be hot but unfortunately it isn't.

It's a brand new Reich pump bought after the last brand new Reich pump snapped while I was fitting it!

Maybe a stupid question but could it be that I've fitted the pump to the wrong hose as per my original photos. If there's 2 hoses attached to the filler cap how do you know which one is to the taps and which is overflow?

 

[GeoffnDee]

You could remove both pipes from the pump outlet blow through each one and the one you can blow through will be the overflow, If you then open a tap , for a moment , the pump should run and water come out of the pump connection and show which pipe needs to be connected to which outlet of the pump to supply water to the taps.
Have you a meter that you could use to check the green/pink wiring polarity ? (if they are incorrect the pump may still work but be running in the wrong direction)

 

[bruno66]

You could remove both pipes from the pump outlet blow through each one and the one you can blow through will be the overflow, If you then open a tap , for a moment , the pump should run and water come out of the pump connection and show which pipe needs to be connected to which outlet of the pump to supply water to the taps.
Have you a meter that you could use to check the green/pink wiring polarity ? (if they are incorrect the pump may still work but be running in the wrong directi

Tried it with the hoses swapped and it turns out it was the right way round first time because no water came out the tap at all. I did the blow through test too so at least I know I'm connected in the correct way! It still operates, every time, like it's newly connected again after emptying the tank, i.e. there's a short pause and the spluttering and the water when it does come through is still not hot.

I have a meter but really don't know why as I have no clue what to do with that either, sorry!

 

[Reallyretired]

I have a microswitched system which currently works fine. If it should fail at any time I would break the cold water supply at a convenient point near a tap, insert a pressure switch such as the Whale one and connect it to the wires that did connect to the microswitch.
Although pressure switches are normally mounted close to the pump, the pressure is the same anywhere in the system.
Pressure switch is cheaper than a new tap and will allow the system to operate even if another microswitch fails on a tap.

 

[bruno66]

Think I'm going to take the van to a professional that knows what they're doing with it. Despite all your best efforts I'm getting nowhere with it. Probably needs the knowledge you guys have coupled with actually seeing the issues

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[pappajohn]

How can I find out where a break potentially could be?

If it's as I described.....within the outer sheath.....you can't.
Maybe bend the wire along its length and see it you can feel a place with less bending resistance but very unlikely.

 

[bruno66]

Ahhh nightmare! Seems like there's big queues for repair work so back to the drawing board now!

Any suggestions gratefully appreciated

 

[Landy Andy]

Just to clarify things.

You now turn on your hot tap, the pump runs, and water appears out of the tap, but spluttering a bit at the start. The water is then a good flow, but cold.

Your boiler is running on electric?, and showing a green light, and it was showing the orange “working” light but now isn’t.

Is that all correct?

Have you tried running your boiler on gas?

 

[bruno66]

Just to clarify things.

You now turn on your hot tap, the pump runs, and water appears out of the tap, but spluttering a bit at the start. The water is then a good flow, but cold.

Your boiler is running on electric?, and showing a green light, and it was showing the orange “working” light but now isn’t.

Is that all correct?

Have you tried running your boiler on gas?

All correct except it's running on gas, don't think I can run it on electric for hot water at least

 

[Landy Andy]

When boiler is put to 60 degree water can you hear the boiler fire? Or feel heat coming out of the external boiler flue?

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[bruno66]

When boiler is put to 60 degree water can you hear the boiler fire? Or feel heat coming out of the external boiler flue?

Yes I can, it appears to be working as it should but just not producing hot water. Definitely producing heat in the heater setting too

 

[GeoffnDee]

Can you confirm that the lack of hot water and water from the taps spluttering started after you have fitted a new water pump ?

 

[bruno66]

No I can't, I've had problems with a few pumps for a while now but the van has been used intermittently for a while now and I drain it down every time, so have had the spluttering which I always put down to air lock from refilling. But the toilet sink and toilet itself didn't seem to work properly at all for a while and I put that down to my incompetent attempts at fitting a pump. So quite honestly the answer is I really don't know how long it's been an issue

 

[GeoffnDee]

The water system you have needs to have a non-return valve fitted in it somewhere and these are often in the pump itself (but some pumps that look the same do not have this valve fitted) so maybe the original was fitted with a non-return valve but the replacement does not have this valve fitted.
The other possibility is that a non-return valve is fitted somewhere inline in the water pipe between the water pump and the Combi water inlet and this non return valve is faulty. If there is such a valve, and you can find it , you may be able to clean it out and get it working again.
There has to be a working non-return valve either in the pump or in the water pipe for your water system to work as it should.

 

[bruno66]

I put the Reich power jet 22 on but I also bought another Reich 19l twin so I might try that tomorrow just to see what happens. The first time I noticed the issue was with a whale which I thought might not have been any use, that's the reason I bought the two Reichs.

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