Ooops! I Could Have Lost Out Big Time On A Tag.

[GWAYGWAY]

Whilst I am considering buying another motorhome, I did not consider WHAT I could drive on my licence.
I have a licence with A,B C1, D1, B+E,C1E D1E , FKL N and P. This I understood would cover me for all motorhomes that I am ever likely to own. However when I look closer I find that I cannot drive a TAG AXLE over 3500kg. This is because the class with three axles OVER 3500kg becomes a class , C,which I do not have.
C, covers Lorries over 3500kgs with any number of axles that can tow a single trailer up to 5000kgs???? and any other trailer up to 750kgs. Lorries refers to the tax class ie. PRIVATE HGV.
This seems a bit strange as I have never seen or heard about a trailer that can carry 5000kg on a single axle as most trailers are multi axle over 750kg.
But it is the tag axle on the vehicle that worries me as most Tags are 3860, 4000 ,or more. It may be that this was a printing mistake but as I have had it since 1976 when the Green paper licence came out as a renewal for the pink one. I do not have nor want a plastic card one.
Has everybody else looked closely at their licence because they might also find that tags are excluded over 3500kg on their licence too.
It would take a particular type of Bureaucrat to come up with a restriction like that for trailers.

 

[Judge Mental]

So your young then? Count your blessings

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I'm not sure that's correct any more. I can't see any mention of number of axles in the category descriptions.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

 

[funflair]

I thought you would be covered under your C or C1E

Category C1

You can drive vehicles weighing between 3,500 and 7,500kg (with a trailer up to 750kg).

Category C1+E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.

The combined weight of both can’t exceed 12,000kg.

 

[highwayman]

Under grandfather rights you can drive up to 7-1/2 tons until you hit 70 years old.
Your C1 + C1e covers all you need.

Cheers. Nige

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[GWAYGWAY]

I'm not sure that's correct any more. I can't see any mention of number of axles in the category descriptions.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

I see on there I can but my actual licence states the classification with little diagrams and there is definitely a multi axle restriction. that is the class C not the C1 +E which shows two axles plus trailer. They must have changed the definitions but does that change my paperwork.

 

[sedge]

Well no, but the Cats on your paper licence will be interpreted as the corresponding Cats on the new licences.

So, is there a similarly restrictive Licence Category now? I think not. In which case, can that restriction apply now?

Probably not. I'm sure if they'd wanted a way of stopping people driving whatever - they'd soon have created a category !!

 

[jonandshell]

The class C on mine shows a little picture of an artic. C1 shows a little Luton van. C1E shows a Luton van with a trailer, C+E shows an artic with two more axles in the wrong place!
There are no new classes, just poor illustrations!
It would be impossible to show every vehicle with every axle configuration on the photo license.

 

[vwalan]

looking back to information dated back in 1991 it could be seen that gwaygway is almost correct. but i will also say i think it really is just a misleading picture on the info. old groupA also covered 3.5 -7.5 ton vehicles regardless of how many axles .
it really was a cockup at the time .
as for trailers single axle trailers are much higher rated in many cases than 750kgs .
its like b+e if before 2013 as a higher train weight than a c1+e with the restriction 107 .
b+e its only the trainweight of towing unit.
the whole transport system law system is confusing .

 

[vwalan]

bit small but heres the pic i found . and the cover of the 91 leaflet.
luckily i kept lots of this sort of thing . never know when it will come in handy.
this was at the time they took coach driving licence off many for private use.

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[Puddleduck]

You have C1E on your licence (as I have)

From the https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories website:

C1+E Category C1 vehicles with trailers over 750kg; the fully-loaded trailer can’t weigh more than the vehicle and combined weight of vehicle and trailer can’t be over 12,000kg C1E

The C1+E is the same as C1E (old and new money so to speak).

The icon on my pink bit of plastic clearly shows a trailer with two axles behind the towing vehicle beside the C1E.

Sorry @NickNic you already posted that I'll just be off then.

 

[vwalan]

you may have restriction 107 that limits combined weight to 8250kg .
you may be lucky .
you should have d1+e as well that doesnt have the restriction 107 .
its a daft thing .

 

[mpdcymru]

There is no relationship between the driving licence regulations and the taxation class of a vehicle.

the driving licence regulations do not take account of the number of wheels other than for motorcycles and tricycles

in terms of vans and trucks a Category c1 licence allows the holder to drive a goods vehicle with any number of axles not exceeding a Maximum Authorised Mass of 7,500 kgs

a Category c1 + E licence allows the holder to drive a goods vehicle in Category C1 with any number of axles plus a trailer not exceeding a Maximum Authorised Mass of 12,000kgs (vehicle and trailer) (some people may have the restriction code 107 limiting them to a Maximum Authorised Mass of 8,250 kgs

A Category C licence allows the holder to drive any rigid good vehicle exceeding 3,500 kgs (effectively this is up to 32,000 kgs because that is the maximum permitted weight of a 4-axle rigid

A Category C +E licence enables the holder to drive any goods vehicle exceeding 3,500 kgs towing a trailer or any articulated vehicle.

many, many years ago of course the ordinary car licence entitled the holder to drive a goods vehicle up to 7,500 kgs (the current Category C1)

The old "Class 3" HGV licence allowed the holder to drive any 2-axled goods vehicle over 7,500 kgs any goods vehicle and
The old "Class 2" HGV licence allowed the holder to drive any "multi-axled" rigid goods vehicle anf
The Old "Class 1! HGV licence allowed the holed to drive any rigid goods vehicle over 7.500 kgs towing any trailer or any articulated goods vehicle

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I have attached a copy of my licence, it is C class alone that shows what I mean by the three axle lorry over 3500kgs, I do have a C1 +E along with most of the others. My HGV licence was a different thing as it was a brown book that allowed Commercial operations of all classes of lorry, Has the C class disappeared from the system now as C1+e allows two axles plus trailer. The trailer weight is especially confusing It must be a printing mistake as it would then be 500kgs for a single axle and 750 kg for multi axle trailer.

 

[DBK]

Just send away for a plastic licence!

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[Mikey RV]

Next month your paper licence will be no good anyway and everyone will have a plastic one. Think it's about 7th June if you have any points etc they will all be online. If you send off for new licence photo copy your old one and make sure you get the new one back with all your entitlements on. They have been none to miss things off.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

The plastic licence is ONLY losing it's second part paper bit , the part with additional details like endorsements. The older paper ones are NOT affected and still fully valid. I have no intention of paying them more money for something I already have until my 70th birthday, which is not that far away. There are too many cases of losing what entitlements you do have when changing to the plastic ones, ie no Motorcycle, losing C1E etc. they never give them back even when given proof.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Sorted! I found a site on GOV that allows me to see my present entitlements. Seems that the C has gone and the allowance for C1E has gone up to 12 tonne with trailer and no mention of axles at all. but the paper licence written entitlements were quite clear.

 

[vwalan]

be careful though the c1e might have a restriction 107 be amazed if it hasnt.
also if you are thinking of getting something for long term . remember medicals are required at 70 yr old for over 3,500kh gvw.
if you have diabetes or heart trouble think about it.
hope you havent and are fit and well .

 

[pappajohn]

C1 covers you for any rigid body vehihicle up to 7500kg regardless of number of axles.
C1E covers addition trailers up to a maximum train weight of 8250kg if it has restricyion 107 on your licence.
if theres no 107 then the max train weigh it 12000kg.

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[pappajohn]

Sorted! I found a site on GOV that allows me to see my present entitlements. Seems that the C has gone and the allowance for C1E has gone up to 12 tonne with trailer and no mention of axles at all. but the paper licence written entitlements were quite clear.

Yes it has....and no it hasnt.

The 12000kg is for folks who have taken a SEPERATE C1 test Since 1997 (after 1997 the C1 was not automatically included)....test pass before 1997 and its still restriced to 8250kg.

 

[pappajohn]

Next month your paper licence will be no good anyway and everyone will have a plastic one. Think it's about 7th June if you have any points etc they will all be online. If you send off for new licence photo copy your old one and make sure you get the new one back with all your entitlements on. They have been none to miss things off.

Incorrect....old paper only licences are valid right up to expiry date on licence.

The only time it will be changed to plastic is if you get disqualified or change your address.....or you foolishly volunteer to change it.

 

[pappajohn]

I have attached a copy of my licence, it is C class alone that shows what I mean by the three axle lorry over 3500kgs, I do have a C1 +E along with most of the others. My HGV licence was a different thing as it was a brown book that allowed Commercial operations of all classes of lorry, Has the C class disappeared from the system now as C1+e allows two axles plus trailer. The trailer weight is especially confusing It must be a printing mistake as it would then be 500kgs for a single axle and 750 kg for multi axle trailer.

If you look to the right of the licence in the third column, you will see, next to C1 and C but in line with C, the entitlement is shown by 3 dashs meaning the category is not active.
the C is for COMMERCIAL/vocational use vehicles over 3500kg....not recreational vehicles

These "pen" written letters and numbers are the latest categories when your old licence was last replaced.

Just wondering why you think a single axle trailer should be 500kg and a twin 750kg ?

Anyone can tow a trailer up to 750kg regardless of number of axles.
there are some trailers well over 1000kg which are single axle.

750kg is the limit for unbraked trailers, again regardless of axles.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

The trailer limit on the written part of the licence stated 5000kgs for single axle and 750 for multi axle????? I thought that a misprint with another 0 added , no way do you get a 5000kg single axle trailer that I know of, unless the semihung lorry road-train trailers.
This has been a minefield trying to understand, Why do they change these things is it to bring us all in line with EC?

 

[mpdcymru]

Incorrect....old paper only licences are valid right up to expiry date on licence.

The only time it will be changed to plastic is if you get disqualified or change your address.....or you foolishly volunteer to change it.

Be careful with that. The Road safety Act 2007 also includes a clause to the effect that DVLA can recall all paper licences. they put this there for a reason - time will come when they (and the other enforcement authorities) will not want to be burdeneed by the old type paper licences and that will be the time when the government (or DVLA on their behalf) will recall the existing paper licences. Apologies to those that hold the paper licences, but they will all be getting older now and soon there will only be a relatively small number of them still driving - thats when it will happen.

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[2657]

Perhaps an up to date photocard licence with the current vehicle classifications and restrictions clearly shown would help to alleviate confusion.Categories are defined here: https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

I cannot understand the reluctance by some to hang on to an out of date piece of paper, I find the photocard extremely useful as a form of ID especially abroad. As for being a back door introduction of personal ID I see nothing wrong with a full introduction of ID to be carried at all times as is the norm in most of the EU.

 

[gus-lopez]

The plastic licence is ONLY losing it's second part paper bit , the part with additional details like endorsements. The older paper ones are NOT affected and still fully valid. I have no intention of paying them more money for something I already have until my 70th birthday, which is not that far away. There are too many cases of losing what entitlements you do have when changing to the plastic ones, ie no Motorcycle, losing C1E etc. they never give them back even when given proof.

photo copy anything you send them to be able to confirm what was on it.

Yes it has....and no it hasnt.

The 12000kg is for folks who have taken a SEPERATE C1 test Since 1997 (after 1997 the C1 was not automatically included)....test pass before 1997 and its still restriced to 8250kg.

Yes that's right & also EU ruling @8250 unless test passed-

Incorrect....old paper only licences are valid right up to expiry date on licence.

The only time it will be changed to plastic is if you get disqualified or change your address.....or you foolishly volunteer to change it.

I've also heard that some people with pre-97 licences, when suspended under 'totting up' or straight bans have had them returned minus every category except the one that the test was passed for, normally car only.
No idea about the veracity of it though.

 

[Gromett]

I've also heard that some people with pre-97 licences, when suspended under 'totting up' or straight bans have had them returned minus every category except the one that the test was passed for, normally car only.
No idea about the veracity of it though.

I have heard that a number of times most recently on the CPC course I just did. Also motorbike entitlements have been known to be removed as well....