Nissan Navara + sliding hitch (1 Viewer)

zaskar

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Hopefully, wifey an I are going to buy a Nissan Navara Double cab and an imported 5ver called a KountryLite, made by Allen Camper co.

I've been told that with the standard supply fixed Reese hitch, full 90 degree turns will be impossible due to the short bed and as we prefer to use CL's which can be very small and tight, this worries me.

Does anybody tow a 5ver with a Nissan Navara fitted with a Pullrite Superglide or one of the sidewinder hitches?

Thanks.
 

robrobc

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Hi Zaskar

I also gave this matter very careful thought for the reasons you mention, tight turns on CL sites.
I had a good look at both the sidewinder and pull rite hitches. I think, and this is only my opinion, that they are probably the best of the 'slider' hitch variety.
Ultimately I guess it comes down to personal choice, I was finally convinced by some friends of ours who tow a large caravan and pointed out that they have never in all their 30+ years of towing have ever had occasion to have a trailer at 90 Degrees+ whilst manoeuvering.

I ended up going for a standard hitch, ..................after all I can always upgrade.

Rob
 

dazzer

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Before you commit to a Nissan have you looked on here about Nivaras as a tow vehicle for USA 5ers??

Also check out reviews on the Nivara on the web.........its interesting reading and could sway your decision

Nuff said :thumb:
 

brianju

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Hi Zaskar

Speaking from experience (Navara D40 D/C Extreme Lite 5th wheel) unless you have set your heart on a double cab, give some thought to a king cab with 14" longer bed.
Even with a 14" SuperGlide hitch on the double cab it is all too easy to touch the back of the cab when manoeuvering in tight spaces.

The 5th Wheel Co use a longer slide, but I believe they uprate the suspension and replate the Navara to allow for the heavier hitch and the pin weight of the 5th wheel.

Brian
 
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zaskar

zaskar

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Before you commit to a Nissan have you looked on here about Nivaras as a tow vehicle for USA 5ers??
Also check out reviews on the Nivara on the web.........its interesting reading and could sway your decision
Nuff said :thumb:


Having test driven a Navara/KountryLite 26RK set up,I can tell you that the Navara IS competent enough to do the job for those of us who aren't interested in
out dragging a Porsche from the lights [unquote]
Granted, it is by no means a rocket ship with such a weight on the back, but if I wanted to race, I'd buy a Porche.
My milage will be VERY limited so onroad performance isn't such a big issue for me compared to someone who might want to do a European Tour.
The Navara IS capable of maintaining legal speeds and that's good enough for me.

Look back through my history. You'll find that I was one of the people slagging off the Navara in the posts you refer to!
The reasons for this were.......
My experience came from a test drive of a Celtic Rambler which was towed by a manual box D22.
Firstly, the Celtic Rambler is a LOT heavier than the KountryLite I intend to buy.
Secondly,the D22 had a LOT less horse power than the current D40
Thirdly, the recomended choice of D40 with Autobox is a lot more user friendly than D22 manual.
Fourth. The Auto box in the D40 is well known for being extremely strong and reliable compared to the burnt out clutches and blown boxes in the D22 Manual
Having driven both combinations, I'm happy in my own mind that the Navara D40 WILLbe good enough for what I need,it may not be suitable for everyones need.

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zaskar

zaskar

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Hi Zaskar
Speaking from experience (Navara D40 D/C Extreme Lite 5th wheel) unless you have set your heart on a double cab, give some thought to a king cab with 14" longer bed.
Even with a 14" SuperGlide hitch on the double cab it is all too easy to touch the back of the cab when manoeuvering in tight spaces.
The 5th Wheel Co use a longer slide, but I believe they uprate the suspension and replate the Navara to allow for the heavier hitch and the pin weight of the 5th wheel.
Brian

Hmmmmm, know what you mean about the double cab, it would make a lot more sense to go single but unfortunately, the car will also be used as regular solo transport for 4 so double is really a must, besides, SWMBO insists!:winky:
Very surprised what you say about "touching", even with a Superglide. Didn't think it was possible?
I hadn't realised that the Superglide came in different lengths? From what I've seen on the net and what I saw fitted by 5th wheel co at the factory, there is only one size (length) of Superglide, the only thing that changes is the weight rating which I would guess is achieved by heavier construction/ thicker guages of material?
Your right, 5th wheel DO upgrade the Nissans rear suspension with supplementary air, as do Calder from whom I want to buy a KountryLite.
 
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zaskar

zaskar

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Hi Zaskar
I also gave this matter very careful thought for the reasons you mention, tight turns on CL sites........................ended up going for a standard hitch, ..................after all I can always upgrade.
Rob



.......and can i ask how long you've been running like this? Have you encountered any problems and do you think you've been running this set up long enough to be able to say whether or not it was the right decision?
Thanks:thumb:
 

brianju

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Hmmmmm, know what you mean about the double cab, it would make a lot more sense to go single but unfortunately, the car will also be used as regular solo transport for 4 so double is really a must, besides, SWMBO insists!:winky:
Very surprised what you say about "touching", even with a Superglide. Didn't think it was possible?
I hadn't realised that the Superglide came in different lengths? From what I've seen on the net and what I saw fitted by 5th wheel co at the factory, there is only one size (length) of Superglide, the only thing that changes is the weight rating which I would guess is achieved by heavier construction/ thicker guages of material?
Your right, 5th wheel DO upgrade the Nissans rear suspension with supplementary air, as do Calder from whom I want to buy a KountryLite.

Just to say first of all, our auto D40 was up to towing the Xtreme-Lite, including areas we visited in the Highlands of Scotland.

With the shorter SuperGlide hitch we had, the front quarter of the 5th wheel could touch the rear quarter of the cab, getting on a very tight pitch.

There are several models of the SuperGlide hitch ranging from a 14"slide to a 22.75"

The Kountry-Lite looks to be a nice unit.
 
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zaskar

zaskar

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Just to say first of all, our auto D40 was up to towing the Xtreme-Lite, including areas we visited in the Highlands of Scotland.
With the shorter SuperGlide hitch we had, the front quarter of the 5th wheel could touch the rear quarter of the cab, getting on a very tight pitch.
There are several models of the SuperGlide hitch ranging from a 14"slide to a 22.75"
The Kountry-Lite looks to be a nice unit.

Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated.:thumb:
You couldn't post a link to where you've found the different sizes could you please?
Either I'm being a thicko, or when I look on PullRites site, I can only find different strenghts, not different lengths.

Ta::bigsmile:
 

old-mo

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Think this link is the one you are after,, but it is foreign.:Doh:

I will keep looking to see if I can find a uk supplier..

Seem to do a nice range.:thumb:



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brianju

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robrobc

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.......and can i ask how long you've been running like this? Have you encountered any problems and do you think you've been running this set up long enough to be able to say whether or not it was the right decision?
Thanks:thumb:

Hi Zaskar

I think that I did make the right decision, I would urge you to check this out very carefully with the Navara as the length of the bed is of utmost importance.
I am running a Ford F250 Diesel:thumb: with a 6ft 7 ins bed so it is not really fair to compare this with a Navara.:Eeek::Eeek: I went the American route for a whole raft of reasons which do not really need to be explored on your thread here.
Also be aware that when the slide and subsequently the Kingpin goes behind the axle, i.e. towards the rear of the truck, you will find the suspension loading increases considerably, this can lead to challenges in respect of traction if in 4 wheel drive mode as well as the steering goes 'light'.
If you want more details, (my measurement criteria and testing etc etc) in respect of my research then pm me and I will respond.

Rob
 

robrobc

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You could also try these chappies.
It seems to tick all the boxes.

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tonka130

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Hello all,
I too am looking to buy either a Calder or Niche 5th this year. I have been researching sliders and sidewinders, and at the moment have been swayed towards the sidewinder. The main reason being that you can turn the pin box to quite acute angles, and still hitch and unhitch. This I feel for tight pitches or cls, would be extremely important (the longest sidewinder is 22 inches).

I'm now on my second landrover defender 130 double cab, which I use for work tugging large trailers, I also carry my Nortstar demountable on it, and will be pulling the 5th. My point is that i am surprised that no one seems to go for landrovers as an option for a 5th. The 130 is plated to pull 3400kg, and will carry a max of 1500kg in the pick up tub at the same time (without any air suspension), it does live upto the plating as I regularly approach max loads for work towing.

By the way both calder and niche have new 'euro' 5ths on their websites, if anyone is interested.

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Sundowners

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You could get a longer hitch (I think it's called a pin box) fitted to the 5er, this would make the o/all length more but does help clearance at the cab, and I think it would work well with a slider hitch on a short bed.
Tonka130--Our son has a 130 double cab fitted with the 2.8 TGV engine, it does indeed carry and pull VERY well!!!!!
Nigel & Pamala
 
Nov 10, 2008
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5th wheel weights

Hi,
Newbie
You guys seem to know what you are talking wrt 5th wheelers.
I have already bought a Nissan Navara Auto and intend buying the same 5th Wheel as
mentioned in the first thread. Been looking 2 years now so just about ready to sign cheque!
I was talking to the DVLA about trailer weights and they (she) said if the trailer/5th wheel is heavier than the tow vechile then the rig is ilegal on UK roads. I've also heard and read the stuff on the DVLA site but it is very confusing as the concept of a 5er is not mentioned unless it is used to transport carnivals!
So question is what is the maximum weights for a 5th wheel i.e. axle plus pin weight.
The unit I am looking at atm is approx. 3 tons with a pin weight of approx 500 kgs. The Nisson will be replated to that use but what is my personal payload, 500 kgs?
Also where do I get the official information from.
Regards
Jack
 

pappajohn

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I was talking to the DVLA about trailer weights and they (she) said if the trailer/5th wheel is heavier than the tow vechile then the rig is ilegal on UK roads.

hi jack,

'she' is confusing a conventional trailer with an 'articulated' trailer.

a normal, fully loaded, drawbar trailer must never be heavier than the tow vehicle or it is illegal.

this law doesnt apply to 5'rs....if it did then every HGV artic would be breaking the law.
the tractor unit might weigh 10t but the load could be 30t or more.

the only thing you must never do is exceed the train weight of the vehicle.

completely different set of rules

john.
 
Nov 10, 2008
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5th wheel weights

John,
Thanks for reply.
But! Can you point to where, on the DVLA site (or anywhere FTM) the rules for 5th W's are explained. See below:-
"Category B (car) entitlement
You can drive vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM, together with a trailer not exceeding 750 kilograms. To tow a heavier trailer you will need category B+E entitlement.
Category C1 entitlement
You can drive vehicles over 3.5 tonnes MAM but less than 7.5 tonnes (with or without a trailer up to 750 kilograms). To tow a heavier trailer you will need category C1+E entitlement.
If you passed the category C1+E test:
· before 1 January 1997 (shown as C1+E (107) on the licence) you are limited to driving such combinations up to a combined weight of 8.25 tonnes eg motorhome 6 tonnes, trailer 2.25 tonnes
· after 1 January 1997 you are entitled to drive combinations up to 12 tonnes in weight where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750 kilograms but does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle
Category C entitlement
You can drive vehicles over 7.5 tonnes MAM. To draw a trailer over 750 kilograms you will need category C+E entitlement. Motorhomes of this weight cannot be driven on a standard category B (car) licence, irrespective of when that category B entitlement was obtained."

C1+E is not exactly explicit but the statement "where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750 kilograms but does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle" can refer to pre 1997 licence as well as post 1997 licence. This is motorhomes, cat B etc car licences are more restictive and still mention that statement.
BTW I'm about (want) to buy such a rig and I know many people are driving such rigs but I would like something legal in my hand when an official stops me and weighs the units.
Regards,
Jack
 

robrobc

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I agree that getting something official would be nice, I fear that you are on something of a fruitless quest.:Doh:
There are two things to take into consideration as far as I can see.
1. What is the maximum train weight that I am licensed to drive.
2. Is there legislation that affects me which is dependent on the weight of either the towed or tow vehicle.

I have attached a link to the NTTA, Link Removed

This will also, hopefully, clarify the other area to consider, namely the widths and lengths.

I would suggest that you do the background reading, reach your own conclusions with regard to what you can and cannot do and then act as you see fit.
It is after all your licence, your pick up, your trailer etc etc, there are plenty of armchair experts who will tell you what you can and cannot do, but thay are not the ones that will be stopped by the Police or VOSA.

If you have any specific points then please pm me.

Rob

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Nov 10, 2008
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Perhaps this?

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
Longview Road

Clase
Swansea
SA99 1BN
Drivers Tel: 0870 240 0009
Vehicles Tel: 0870 240 0010
E-mail:
drivers.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk
E-mail: vehicles.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk
Website: www.dvla.gov.uk

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email.

An articulated tractor unit with the “fifth wheel” attached may render the vehicle’s driver subject to LGV entitlement with category C being appropriate if the combination cannot comply with the following exception: -

The holder of category B (car ) entitlement may drive an articulated goods vehicle with an unladen weight which does not exceed 3.05 tonnes.

Please note that a goods vehicle exemption means – only the cab with a fifth wheel attached. The driver of a tractor unit with fifth wheel over 3.05 tonnes would need to hold category C entitlement.

However, if the fifth wheel has been removed, it is the weight of the tractor unit that will determine the licence required:

1. a maximum authorised mass weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes would need to hold category B and be 17 years of age.

2. a maximum authorised mass weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes would need to hold category C1 and be 18 years of age.

3. A maximum authorised mass weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes would need to hold category C and be 21 years of age.

Regards

Y Nicholas
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring
 

robrobc

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Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
Longview Road

Clase
Swansea
SA99 1BN
Drivers Tel: 0870 240 0009
Vehicles Tel: 0870 240 0010
E-mail:
drivers.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk
E-mail: vehicles.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk
Website: www.dvla.gov.uk

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email.

An articulated tractor unit with the “fifth wheel” attached may render the vehicle’s driver subject to LGV entitlement with category C being appropriate if the combination cannot comply with the following exception: -

The holder of category B (car ) entitlement may drive an articulated goods vehicle with an unladen weight which does not exceed 3.05 tonnes.

Please note that a goods vehicle exemption means – only the cab with a fifth wheel attached. The driver of a tractor unit with fifth wheel over 3.05 tonnes would need to hold category C entitlement.

However, if the fifth wheel has been removed, it is the weight of the tractor unit that will determine the licence required:

1. a maximum authorised mass weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes would need to hold category B and be 17 years of age.

2. a maximum authorised mass weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes would need to hold category C1 and be 18 years of age.

3. A maximum authorised mass weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes would need to hold category C and be 21 years of age.

Regards

Y Nicholas
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring


All well and good but I wonder why you are focussing on Goods Vehicles.
I may be completely wrong here but I use my 5'er for recreation and not for hire and/or reward.
So the issues concerning goods/commercial vehicles do not apply. So the key issue is IMHO relating to MAM and Licence entitlement.
 
H

huskieracer

Deleted User
With regards to C1+E there was an amendment to the licence in 2005 that stopped the tow vehicle / trailer ratio rule.

See link and read section 10) a + b

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/uksi_20052717_en.pdf

so as long as the trailer is over 750kg and the combination is under 8.25t the trailer can exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle.
 

Yetties

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I run a Navara D22 with an Ameri-lite 5er fixed hitch double cab I can bend mine to 90 degrees no problem yes it has a longish hitch arm but is as supplied by Niche at Manby.

The Navara is a manual with 150 common rail engine and yes I would be the first to admit its no racing car it is perfectly adequate for the 5er we have without suspension mods.

We took said combination to Bavaria last year had no problems holding motorway speed ok yes it slowed up some of the long drags in Germany but was able to keep up a reasonable speed.

With a double cab to get the coupling and subframe in front of the centrepoint of the axle you have to mount it within about 3 inches of the back of the cab so a sliding hitch could be interesting if fitted but I really dont see the need.

Hope that this may add some interest to this whole discussion

Neil
 

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