Merseyflow

[andynkim]

Just found out the hard way that if your over 3.5 tonne then the Merseyflow fee is £6 not the £2 that the website tells you when you put in your registration.
Now have a £20 fine to pay.

Andy

 

[Robert Clark]

I’d suggest taking a screenshot of that and appeal the fine

 

[Snowbird]

I had to check what this was. At first I thought it was some charge fat Joe had thought up fo Liverpool.

 

[Macca1954]

Just found out the hard way that if your over 3.5 tonne then the Merseyflow fee is £6 not the £2 that the website tells you when you put in your registration.
Now have a £20 fine to pay.

Andy

It’s not if you’re over 3.5 it also includes 3.5. They’ve moved the goalpost to include 3.5. Whereas the Mersey tunnel the dart crossing etc are above 3.5. In a word robbing bastards

 

[andynkim]

Was going to appeal but for £20 can’t really be bothered , just thought I would alert all on here.

Surely over 3.5 tonne means over but not including 3.5 tonne. My MH is 4.4 tonne.

Or am I not understanding the reply above.

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[2657]

Was going to appeal but for £20 can’t really be bothered , just thought I would alert all on here.

Surely over 3.5 tonne means over but not including 3.5 tonne. My MH is 4.4 tonne.

Or am I not understanding the reply above.

The website shows the limits as -3.5t and 3.5t to 12t which to me includes 3.5t in the higher category, whether this is fair and comparable with other legislation is another matter.

 

[grumps147]

It’s not if you’re over 3.5 it also includes 3.5. They’ve moved the goalpost to include 3.5. Whereas the Mersey tunnel the dart crossing etc are above 3.5. In a word robbing bastards

I hope not, we've dropped to a 3.500 vehicle, it's recorded us as 3.500 and the last time I looked we had been charged the car rate. Must check when I get back to the iPad with clearer screen access.

 

[Macca1954]

I hope not, we've dropped to a 3.500 vehicle, it's recorded us as 3.500 and the last time I looked we had been charged the car rate. Must check when I get back to the iPad with clearer screen access.

I went over the first day of opening 3.5 tonne hymer payed that night and complained when they charged me £6 said it included 3.5 tonne never been over it since. Not heard of any reductions. If they have changed it would use it again always used to go that way to Shropshire

 

[TheBig1]

Just found out the hard way that if your over 3.5 tonne then the Merseyflow fee is £6 not the £2 that the website tells you when you put in your registration.
Now have a £20 fine to pay.

Andy

no £26 including the toll charge

 

[Macca1954]

no £26 including the toll charge

As I said robbing bastards. Not sure if true but believe it’s the same company that runs dart flow and they are French

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[grumps147]

Well, that was hard work on this phone.
Everything changed for motorhomes with this new traffic regulation order. This order followed a consultation period when there were a number of objections, including mine to motorhome classifications.
The date of the change was 19 April 2018.
This classified all motorhomes WHOSE V5C HAS THE CORRECT CLASSIFICATION ON IT by DVLA ( the rub is some don't), and Merseyflow only rely on what the DVLA send them, as Class 2, irrespective of weight. Without going right into the very complex traffic order, this link provided the base information, which aligns Merseyflow with the Dartford Tunnel. My last 3 charges since we changed our vehicle in May, as I have my vehicles registered, were £1.80 each crossing.
If DVLA have your wrong classification, appeal but also get your V5C changed by DVLA.

Consultation: Proposed Changes to Road User Charging Scheme Order | The Mersey Gateway Project

www.merseygateway.co.uk

 

[Macca1954]

Well, that was hard work on this phone.
Everything changed for motorhomes with this new traffic regulation order. This order followed a consultation period when there were a number of objections, including mine to motorhome classifications.
The date of the change was 19 April 2018.
This classified all motorhomes WHOSE V5C HAS THE CORRECT CLASSIFICATION ON IT by DVLA ( the rub is some don't), and Merseyflow only rely on what the DVLA send them, as Class 2, irrespective of weight. Without going right into the very complex traffic order, this link provided the base information, which aligns Merseyflow with the Dartford Tunnel. My last 3 charges since we changed our vehicle in May, as I have my vehicles registered, were £1.80 each crossing.
If DVLA have your wrong classification, appeal but also get your V5C changed by DVLA.

Consultation: Proposed Changes to Road User Charging Scheme Order | The Mersey Gateway Project

www.merseygateway.co.uk

Thanks for that what a cracking hive of information this site and it’s members are. I live in the northwest and new nothing of this change. I’ve changed my van but still 3.5 ton. Will be on the phone to see what they are going to charge me and ask for my £4 20 back.

 

[Misterg]

Just found out the hard way that if your over 3.5 tonne then the Merseyflow fee is £6 not the £2 that the website tells you when you put in your registration.

Presumably you were in a motorhome, not a HGV?

The website shows the limits as -3.5t and 3.5t to 12t

The legal basis of their tolls is here (document linked to from the Merseyflow web page)

https://www.merseyflow.co.uk/Merseyflow/media/documents/The-A533-(Mersey-Gateway-Bridge)-and-the-A557-(Silver-Jubilee-Bridge)-Roads-User-Charging-Scheme-Order-2018.pdf

Which, to my reading at least, differs from the information on their web site:

They define the vehicle classes on page 8 (but you cannot copy text from the document, hence the screen-shot):

The "The Road User Charging And Workplace Parking Levy (Classes Of Motor Vehicles) (England) Regulations 2001" they cite for the detailed definitions are also on line. ( Part II covers "Two or three-wheel motor vehicles and quadricycles") You need to go to part III for the definitions of L(a) and L(b), and to part V for the Ns where you will find:

===========================================

Motor caravan
Class L(a)
A motor vehicle which—
(a)has at least four wheels;
(b)has an unladen mass exceeding 400kg or an engine with a net power exceeding 15kw;
(c)is used for the carriage of passengers; and
(d)is constructed to include living accommodation containing at least the following equipment:
(i)seats and a table;
(ii)sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(iii)cooking facilities; and
(iv)storage facilities,
all of which equipment is rigidly fixed to the living compartment notwithstanding that the table may be designed to be easily removable.
Class L(b)
A motor vehicle as defined in Class L(a) which is drawing a trailer.

============================
Category N: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels used for the carriage of goods
In this Part references to a “motor vehicle” are to a motor vehicle with or without a semi-trailer which—

(a)has at least four wheels;

(b)has an unladen mass exceeding 550kg or an engine with power exceeding 15kW; and

(c)is used for the carriage of goods.

Sub-Category N1
Class N1(a)
A motor vehicle which has a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes.

Class N1(b)
A motor vehicle as defined in Class N1(a) which is drawing a trailer.

Category N2
Class N2(a)
A motor vehicle which has a maximum mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 12 tonnes.

Class N2(b)
A motor vehicle as defined in Class N2(a) which is drawing a trailer.
===================================================

It appears to be quite clear to me that:

All motorhomes should be class 2, regardless of weight.

and

Vans up to and including 3500kg should be class 2

robbing bastards.

Quite.

(Apparently the news arrived while I was typing! )

Edit to add: It would appear that as long as your vehicle meets the definition of Class L, they should charge you as class 2, regardless of what is on the V5. It might mean appealing every time though! Interesting, given the DVLA's current reluctance to reclassify converted vans as "Motor Caravans"...

 

[Loveshack]

Was going to appeal but for £20 can’t really be bothered , just thought I would alert all on here.

Surely over 3.5 tonne means over but not including 3.5 tonne. My MH is 4.4 tonne.

Or am I not understanding the reply above.

I sympathise, but I suppose I consider our van to be “normal” and unlikely to attract excess charges for ferries, bridges and tunnels, as long as we remain 5.99M and 3. 5tonne(inc).
You say 4.4 tonne, i’m Guessing that you are probably over 6.0M?

 

[andynkim]

no £26 including the toll charge

The fine is £20 as I said in the original post. and of course you then have to pay the outstanding toll charge as I had paid £2 the outstanding was £4.

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[Drifter]

I’d never heard of this before and seen the signs on the way to wales. Paid by number plate and was astonished it was only two quid.
Now worried I never paid on the way back but not sure if we crossed it again, do they let you know?

 

[Drifter]

Should maybe add we just follow the sat nav and no ide where it was before we met it and no idea where it is now but never noticed signs on way back, is it only one way?

 

[grumps147]

Should maybe add we just follow the sat nav and no ide where it was before we met it and no idea where it is now but never noticed signs on way back, is it only one way?

Both ways. There are that many cameras in more than one point so things like tailgating, or going in the shadow of a large HGV trailer that you can sometimes get away with on the motorway 50 limits, you can’t on the new bridge. When the old bridge opens up again after refurbishment that too will be tolled.

 

[peterc10]

If they have aligned it with the Dart Charge then any motorhome should be charged the same as a car. I have a Dart Charge account and my 4.5t motorhome is the same class as my two cars

 

[PeteH]

TOLLS. Are simply another "Stealth" tax. If the "Authorities" where serious about it, they would toll roads and remove the VED. I do all my routing via non tolled roads, with very few exceptions One being the Humber Bridge. Avoided using it for years, but when they dropped the toll to £1-50 (including the "A" framed car!!) it became more viable for some journeys in terms of fuel cost / time effectiveness. For some years, we did a delivery drop at Bristol and then Cardiff, When they changed the Toll to one way, we simply changed the delivery to Cardiff (Via the A40 A449) and then Bristol! saved (I think) about £12 per trip.

As for the fine, I got a PCN recently, for parking on double yellow lines, which I challenged and got it dropped, The "Hitler" had failed to take notice of the fact that the vehicle had a valid "Blue Badge" displayed. They came back with the usual "withdrawn as a concession" rubbish which is almost standard "speak" for "we got it wrong".

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[andynkim]

Well after saying I couldn’t be bothered and had payed the fine and the extra £4 for the toll I found a link to appeal and did.
Lone behold today I had an Email to say there had been an administration error and my appeal was successful I would get a refund for the fine and for the extra £4 for the toll.
It then goes on to say that as my MH is class 3 all future crossings would be £6.
I also use the dart crossing and can confirm all MH are class 2 on this crossing as stated on the dart website.

I don’t know, I wish they could make up there mind.

Cheers all for your replies.

Andy.

 

[Macca1954]

Well after saying I couldn’t be bothered and had payed the fine and the extra £4 for the toll I found a link to appeal and did.
Lone behold today I had an Email to say there had been an administration error and my appeal was successful I would get a refund for the fine and for the extra £4 for the toll.
It then goes on to say that as my MH is class 3 all future crossings would be £6.
I also use the dart crossing and can confirm all MH are class 2 on this crossing as stated on the dart website.

I don’t know, I wish they could make up there mind.

Cheers all for your replies.

Andy.

Glad you got it sorted, or sort of. Think they just charge what they want.

 

[grumps147]

Well after saying I couldn’t be bothered and had payed the fine and the extra £4 for the toll I found a link to appeal and did.
Lone behold today I had an Email to say there had been an administration error and my appeal was successful I would get a refund for the fine and for the extra £4 for the toll.
It then goes on to say that as my MH is class 3 all future crossings would be £6.
I also use the dart crossing and can confirm all MH are class 2 on this crossing as stated on the dart website.

I don’t know, I wish they could make up there mind.

Cheers all for your replies.

Andy.

On your V5C in the Vehicle Details at item D5, does this classify your vehicle as a Motor Caravan?

If so, you need to write back to them and tell them they are wrong. Under THEIR legislation under which they operate weight is immaterial to the definition of a Motor Caravan. Both myself and Misterg outlined the actual legislation and they are clearly wrong in insisting you are Class 3. Their is only one classification for a Motor Caravan under their legislation and it is Class 2.

 

[andynkim]

On your V5C in the Vehicle Details at item D5, does this classify your vehicle as a Motor Caravan?

If so, you need to write back to them and tell them they are wrong. Under THEIR legislation under which they operate weight is immaterial to the definition of a Motor Caravan. Both myself and Misterg outlined the actual legislation and they are clearly wrong in insisting you are Class 3. Their is only one classification for a Motor Caravan under their legislation and it is Class 2.

Yes it does state at D5 Motor Caravan and as you say in that case it should be Class 2 but as I live in SW London the probability that I will again use Merseyflow is pretty remote.

Cheers Andy

PS have sent enquiry regarding the class 2/3 issue

 

[Rapido925M]

Just be grateful that you didn't break down:

Vehicle breakdown charges
If a vehicle has a breakdown whilst on the bridge, recovery is only permitted by a designated authorised company. No roadside repairs, refuelling or tyre changing are permitted unless by special permission. The recovered vehicle will be taken to an appropriate place where it will be impounded until the recovery and storage fees are paid. Fees are a minimum of £150 plus VAT for a small vehicle.

Gordon

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[Macca1954]

Just be grateful that you didn't break down:

Vehicle breakdown charges
If a vehicle has a breakdown whilst on the bridge, recovery is only permitted by a designated authorised company. No roadside repairs, refuelling or tyre changing are permitted unless by special permission. The recovered vehicle will be taken to an appropriate place where it will be impounded until the recovery and storage fees are paid. Fees are a minimum of £150 plus VAT for a small vehicle.

Gordon

So for a puncture that’s £180 before you start what a pissing rip off. Highway robbery

 

[andynkim]

Had a reply from merseyflow copied below.

“Dear Andrew,


Thank you for your email to Merseyflow dated 28/08/2019.

Having reviewed your email regarding payment of Road User Charges for vehicle XXXXXXX; we can confirm that future charging rates for the above vehicle will be at the class 2 charge of £2.00.

In addition, we can confirm your vehicle is identified as a Mobilvetta make and a K-Yacht Teknoline 85 Auto. “

So if you’re MH is put into class 3 because of the weight then appeal.

Cheers all
Andy.

 

[grumps147]

Great positive result, eventually, you shouldn’t have had to go to such lengths though just to get what you should have had from 19/4/2019 when they changed their ‘rules’.

How many people legitimately recorded as Motor Caravan on their V5C since this date have been conned out of £4 per crossing?

Misterg Jim