Mains Hook-up Cable (2 Viewers)

[Tweedie]

A silly question - The 25m mains hook up cable that was supplied with our new motorhome is very stiff to handle it's like wrestling with a snake!! when trying to pack it away and it just seems stay kinked, it is rated 16 amp & 2.5mm core which I assume is the norm. Was just wondering if all mains hook ups are the same, will it get more plyable with use. Also would keeping it on a storage reel make it easier to handle. Thanks for advice in advance

 

[SuperMike]

Whilst technically it is correct that yellow cable indicates 115v, I would not have thought that the colour of the artic cable is relevant in this situation. Cable is cable and as long as it is of the correct size then the outer colour does not matter. I think . I chose yellow simply so that it can be seen in the grass. Blue tends to disappear somewhat. Never had any trouble with it in many years, carry three lengths of 10m, 15m and 25m. Helps to stop too much laying out.

 

[Gorse Hill]

Cable is cable and as long as it is of the correct size then the outer colour does not matter. I think

There's at least 50 types of 2.5 flex, all different specifications, but cable just cable

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[SuperMike]

There's at least 50 types of 2.5 flex, all different specifications, but cable just cable

Your right of course, I used poor words, sorry. What I was trying to say is that providing the cable is the right spec, then the colour is irrelivant. Is that better. I think.

 

[tonyidle]

In the '50s when the country was awash with businesses selling "ex-WD" stuff my Dad bought a coil of 'signalling cable'. It came wound onto a substantial drum with metal handles. He had to change the weird fixed socket & loose plug for 15A round-pin domestic versions. The 4 conductors were tinsel wire and the outer sheath was woven & impregnated with something to make it smooth and tough. I can't remember what the insulation was made of. The overall diameter of this cable was no more than 6mm and there would be more than 50m on the drum. It's main use was to supply power to a logging sawbench powered by a 2hp single phase motor. It was probably in use for 10 years or so until it was retired and used only for light workshop duties. In use with the sawbench it got very warm (hard to hold warm) even laid out at full length. It used to melt a 3" track through fallen snow. I still have it though not used for a long time now.

 

[sdc77]

Thank you @Gromett for coming up with the answer that others couldn't.
It's is strange that there isn't a product available to people ready made and it also underlines the fact that those of us that buy ready made cables are buying a product that's not suitable or meets the regs.

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[pappajohn]

The yellow cables are usually connected to a centre tapped 110v transformer. In these the earth is centre tapped between live and Neutral so the 110v is actually 60v.
The transformer is also usually based on a split bobbin to give physical isolation from the mains side. Because of this they are very very safe.

My knowledge on this comes from my first job being at a transformer factory. We actually made these transformers and also the ones used by the U.S. military when operating in the UK.

Its still a 2.5sqmm cable regardless of voltage.....at 110v the amperage is doubled so the cable should be adequate for a temporary hookup.

 

[Gorse Hill]

I decided to try and find out the correct answer to this question for the benefit of @sdc77.

Just a few points. The 17th edition regs indicate a minimum requirement and does not cover the specification of the cables themselves. They only cover the electrical requirements not the mechanical requirements if memory serves.

A cable may fulfil the electrical specification but not the mechanical specification for an specific application. Standards have overlaps and gaps;

For instance BS 7671 (IEE Regs 17th edition) says;



The IEE regs specify that the cable should be a minimum of 2.5mm but doesn't mention any other standards the cable needs to meet.

You have to look at the specification that the cable is produced to to find out what if any restrictions or recommendations are made for the cable. For instance Arctic cable manufactured to BS 7919:2000 specification.
This states


When choosing a cable you need to look at the specification and see if it is suitable. Because there is no specification directly aimed at hookup leads for Caravans and Motorhomes you need to check the cable itself is suitable for the task.

I have just spent an hour or so on this and I stand by my previous comments. Bearing in mind 10+ years ago when I did the original research my memory of this stuff was a lot better than it is now.

So my recommendation is. Use the tough inflexible cables where you are going to be on a hard surface or where it is possible for the cable to be run over. You can get away with the Arctic cable even though it isn't specced for the job if you are careful, for instance only use it on soft surface where it won't be impacted by hard or heavy objects and won't be run over. The outer sheath of Arctic cable is not tough enough to take much in the way of abuse.

While I was researching I did trip across an interesting chat on this subject at "The institution of Engineering and Technology"
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=31451

Basically it looks like there is no cable suited. The tough orange cables are fine until you get to low temps, the arctic cables are fine at low temps but not suitable for outdoor use at regular voltages..

The link you gave Grommet to the IET does in fact state that H07RN (or HO5 but lower spec) are required to comply with the regs and Artic Blue is not suitable to comply, therefore there is a cable suitable for the application

 

[Gorse Hill]

Thank you @Gromett for coming up with the answer that others couldn't.
It's is strange that there isn't a product available to people ready made and it also underlines the fact that those of us that buy ready made cables are buying a product that's not suitable or meets the regs.

http://www.industrialextensionleads...hook-up-heavy-duty-extension-lead-10093-p.asp
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-amp-H07r...wden-Ceeform-/151581472403?varId=450790901222
http://wymondhamcables.co.uk/collections/230-volt-16-amp-extension-leads
They are available if you can be arsed to look (took me a couple of mins) instead you would rather be negative, good luck with your purchase

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[sallylillian]

One of the issues that may not have been considered is the problem of voltage drop on a lot of European sites. With crappy EHU posts and masses of connections I very often see closer to 200 volts than 230. So if you have a long lead, say 25 metres you will be contributing to a further drop with small cable. As the cost is not prohibitively more expensive I use 4mm cable rather than 2.5. Only an observation.

 

[jockaneezer]

Used my Toolstation blue 10 meter arctic grade extension cable when I was welding outside in the snow yesterday. When I went to coil it up, it was stiffer than a sports sock from under a teenage boy's bed, at least it was cheap

 

[TeeCee]

In really cold weather my orange hook up cable is the only thing that goes stiff!

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[sdc77]

http://www.industrialextensionleads...hook-up-heavy-duty-extension-lead-10093-p.asp
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-amp-H07r...wden-Ceeform-/151581472403?varId=450790901222
http://wymondhamcables.co.uk/collections/230-volt-16-amp-extension-leads
They are available if you can be arsed to look (took me a couple of mins) instead you would rather be negative, good luck with your purchase

Isn't that 1.5mm ? Is that OK?

In fact don't worry. . I'll go with what @grommet said .. makes more sense.
But thank you

 

[pappajohn]

Out of 100% of motorhome/caravan user 99.9% will be using what was bought off/supplied by a caravan dealer so does it REALLY matter.
Who is going to check.....the cable police
What are they going to do....throw you in cable prison.

 

[sweetie]

Or sit us in the electric chair. Oops ve have not got a legal cable. What shall we do now.

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[Gorse Hill]

Isn't that 1.5mm ? Is that OK?

In fact don't worry. . I'll go with what @grommet said .. makes more sense.
But thank you

Don't worry, I knew it would be diffcult for you to understand
Your glass is not half empty you have nothing in it
PS Just checked all supply 2.5, yet again not looking hard enough, which is becoming a bit of a theme with your good self, your not a troll are you @sdc77

 

[Old Soldier]

Good thing Tweedie in the original post said "A silly question " or else this thread would go on and on.......and on!!

Time the plug was pulled on this, people, and not just the cables, are getting wound up...It won't be long before sparks are flying and fuses blowing....I bet @Tweedie is feeling somewhat Isolated or is shocked by the reaction of some on here!!

 

[Gromett]

http://www.industrialextensionleads...hook-up-heavy-duty-extension-lead-10093-p.asp
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-amp-H07r...wden-Ceeform-/151581472403?varId=450790901222
http://wymondhamcables.co.uk/collections/230-volt-16-amp-extension-leads
They are available if you can be arsed to look (took me a couple of mins) instead you would rather be negative, good luck with your purchase

I could be arsed to look to use your expression. Yes those cables meet the spec of H07RN-F but the first of them doesn't actually give temperature specs of the cables at first glance. My point is that H07RN-F cable meets some of the requirements but not necessarily all of them. I don't have time now to look further. The first one looks good but only 14 Metres. It says all outdoor conditions but doesn't specify the the minimum temperature it can be used at?

The ebay one specified -15C for . I have experienced -20C twice in the UK since full timing. I am sure skiers on here will experience lows like that regularly so the ebay one would not be suitable. It is also only using 1.5mm cable.

I know I am nit picking

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[Gromett]

The link you gave Grommet to the IET does in fact state that H07RN (or HO5 but lower spec) are required to comply with the regs and Artic Blue is not suitable to comply, therefore there is a cable suitable for the application

As I said complying with the regs is only part of the problem.

 

[Gorse Hill]

I could be arsed to look to use your expression. Yes those cables meet the spec of H07RN-F but the first of them doesn't actually give temperature specs of the cables at first glance. My point is that H07RN-F cable meets some of the requirements but not necessarily all of them. I don't have time now to look further. The first one looks good but only 14 Metres. It says all outdoor conditions but doesn't specify the the minimum temperature it can be used at?

The ebay one specified -15C for . I have experienced -20C twice in the UK since full timing. I am sure skiers on here will experience lows like that regularly so the ebay one would not be suitable. It is also only using 1.5mm cable.

I know I am nit picking

Being arsed was aimed at someone else who was obviously being pedantic, so just did a quick search just to shut him/her up, which it has
You say HO7 meets some but not all of the requirements, which requirements in the regulations does it not meet as the regs specify HO7
Not sure what you mean about temperature as all approved HO7 cable, by definition goes down to -30,
Interested to know why/how you think it does meet the regs
http://www.marlec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/H07RNF1.pdf

 

[funflair]

Being arsed was aimed at someone else who was obviously being pedantic, so just did a quick search just to shut him/her up, which it has
You say HO7 meets some but not all of the requirements, which requirements in the regulations does it not meet as the regs specify HO7
Not sure what you mean about temperature as all approved HO7 cable, by definition goes down to -30,
Interested to know why/how you think it does meet the regs
http://www.marlec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/H07RNF1.pdf

I think Gromett is talking about the sheathing/insulation flexibility at -15 and you are quoting a spec that shows the conductor temperature rating -30.

Martin

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[eddie]

Broken Link Removed

This is a Rolec made shore power lead with in line meter. Rolec make the majority of hook up posts and bollards used on marinas and campsites in the UK

http://www.rolecserv.com/marina

If the people the make the hook up bollards and points, make a lead to connect my boat or my caravan or my Motorhome to their equipment, I am happy to but it or use it.

I agree 100% with the comments that I wouldn't want to run my artic flew leads over roads or a hard surface where it was likely to be driven over, but I simply would do it to any hook up lead.

 

[Gromett]

Being arsed was aimed at someone else who was obviously being pedantic, so just did a quick search just to shut him/her up, which it has
You say HO7 meets some but not all of the requirements, which requirements in the regulations does it not meet as the regs specify HO7
Not sure what you mean about temperature as all approved HO7 cable, by definition goes down to -30,
Interested to know why/how you think it does meet the regs
http://www.marlec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/H07RNF1.pdf

I believe you are mixing up requirements and regulations. A cable can meet a regulation but not a requirement for a specific job. I did mention this in one of my previous posts.

As a direct example of what I mean, you gave 3 links. If you look at the ebay one which does quote minimum temperatures.

H07rn-f Mains Cable
Sheath
PCP (Polychloroprene)
Voltage Rating (Uo/U)
450/750V
Temperature Rating
Fixed: -30°C to +60°C
+85°C. For fixed protected installations.
Flexed: -15°C to +60°C

For non fixed (flexed) installations such as our use the limit is -15C. This cable meets the regulations and specifications of H07RN-F (BS7919) and BS7671 but not the requirements for our specific use case.

My original point was that a lot of the cables available are suitable for the job in hand except in some situations (temperature). Arctic cable is suitable from a temperature point of view but is not suitable from a regulation point of view.

 

[Gromett]

Broken Link Removed

This is a Rolec made shore power lead with in line meter. Rolec make the majority of hook up posts and bollards used on marinas and campsites in the UK

http://www.rolecserv.com/marina

If the people the make the hook up bollards and points, make a lead to connect my boat or my caravan or my Motorhome to their equipment, I am happy to but it or use it.

I agree 100% with the comments that I wouldn't want to run my artic flew leads over roads or a hard surface where it was likely to be driven over, but I simply would do it to any hook up lead.

They might be great leads but they don't provide the cable spec. It looks like it is Arctic cable, if so and it is BS7191:2000 spec cable then it is not suitable for the task if you follow their guidelines. Your link is also 15Metres not 25Metres so may have 1.5mm cores not 2.5mm which although allowed is not ideal again for our use cases. I respect your knowledge and experience but I think you might have been missing the point I was trying to make?

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[Deleted member 29692]

I may as well add my bit to this. (over 100 posts on hook up cables? really?)

In a previous life I was in the electrical industry. When I escaped I was a contracts manager and also acted as NICEIC QS.

I don't particularly care what spec any of my cables are. One of them came with the first van from the dealer. The other two I picked up 2nd hand from the caravan shop that manages my storage site when I needed to get the van plugged in. I have no idea what spec any of them are. They aren't Arctic though.

As long as when I plug them in I get power I'm happy.

Unless you're using the cable right at the limit of what it is capable of be that operating temp, current draw or anything else the spec really doesn't matter. The thing about on hard surfaces or when it's likely to be driven over is misleading. No flexible cable is designed for that and I can't think of any occasion where you would need to run a cable in that way.

The only things you really need to be aware of are the volt drop if you have a very long run, not because of risk to the cable but because things won't work properly if the voltage falls too low and the potential for heat build up if you leave it on a drum so always uncoil it fully.

Other than that unless you're drawing the maximum possible current over the longest possible distance in the worst possible conditions and your cable is running across the M6 don't worry about it

Nobody needs to throw their "non-conforming" cable away. Take no notice of the people being pedantic about regulations and requirements.

 

[sdc77]

Being arsed was aimed at someone else who was obviously being pedantic, so just did a quick search just to shut him/her up, which it has

No it hasn't .. I've just decided to listen to more realistic opinions thanks.

 

[mitzimad]

this is all getting very FACT like

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[Lenny HB]

I may as well add my bit to this. (over 100 posts on hook up cables? really?)

Too true, I only looked at this thread again (since first few posts) as I noticed the ridiculous number of posts, I don't care what anyone thinks I know what I'm doing and I use 1.5mm sq yellow arctic cable, but I think I've only spent 3 nights on a EHU in 8 years, most of the time don't bother carrying the hook up lead, that's about to change as I'm joining my mate for a month in a prison camp in Portugal next month oh, sorry meant site.

 

[eddie]

They might be great leads but they don't provide the cable spec. It looks like it is Arctic cable, if so and it is BS7191:2000 spec cable then it is not suitable for the task if you follow their guidelines. Your link is also 15Metres not 25Metres so may have 1.5mm cores not 2.5mm which although allowed is not ideal again for our use cases. I respect your knowledge and experience but I think you might have been missing the point I was trying to make?

Hi Karl,

http://assets.rolecserv.com/files/p...67ff2/PAC-005 - Hook-up - Extension Leads.pdf

The cable is Ho7 RN-F and the offer leads up to 125amp lol so I am sure that they know what they are doing.

 

[Gromett]

The thing about on hard surfaces or when it's likely to be driven over is misleading. No flexible cable is designed for that and I can't think of any occasion where you would need to run a cable in that way.

Nobody needs to throw their "non-conforming" cable away. Take no notice of the people being pedantic about regulations and requirements.

I agree with all your post. Just want to mention these.

No flexible cable is designed to for that is probably correct but some cables are more able to deal with it that others. You only have to have had experience of stripping the outside sheath of a variety of cables to know this. My tough orange cable was a real git to strip, it was as tough as old boot leather. With arctic cable I have to be extremely careful not to go right through to the inner insulation. My previous comments on this subject were based on experience not regs or specs. As to it never happening? I have been on many aires, CL's and small sites where this is exactly what happens on odd occasions. I have even had to dig my cables out of 8" of mud after a 4x4 with caravan decided he liked going the wrong way past my motorhome to avoid a puddle.

I never said anyone needed to throw away cables. Yes, I was being pedantic about it but only to make the point. I even said I used Arctic cable in certain circumstances myself

PS: I have dealt with all types of cable, from Pyro, to armoured 4 core to the more regular types. I still have my certs on this subject somewhere so my comments are not totally blind.

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[Gizmouk]

A silly question - The 25m mains hook up cable that was supplied with our new motorhome is very stiff to handle it's like wrestling with a snake!! when trying to pack it away and it just seems stay kinked, it is rated 16 amp & 2.5mm core which I assume is the norm. Was just wondering if all mains hook ups are the same, will it get more plyable with use. Also would keeping it on a storage reel make it easier to handle. Thanks for advice in advance

Well, haven't you opened up the can of worms

To answer you questions:
* A 25m cable rated at 16A is the norm. 2.5mm refers to the cross sectional area of the conductors, and is prefered for this length of cable with a 16A load. You could get away with 1.5mm, but you'd be right up at the limit.
* No, not all cables are the same. But, all you/ we are doing is making a temporary connection between a motorhome and the site power pillar. Some on this thread seem to be trying to design data centre power upgrades - that's what I do for a living btw
* No, it won't get much more pliable with age. Chances are the supplier has supplied a cheap cable - not uncommon.
* I personally don't like and can't see the point in storage reels with such short lengths of cable.

Best of advice would be to get yourself to a camping / caravan type shop, and have a look feel of the cable(s). Make sure they are a max length of 25m, made from 2.5mm2 cable.
Or something like this one will do:
Broken Link Removed