LPG mystery.... and two items we'll always carry in future. (1 Viewer)

[The2i's]

We went to Tiree, one of the Inner Hebridean islands, at Easter. We had booked a space on a croft with no facilities and, knowing we'd have no chance of topping up the LPG on the island, I decided to experiment in advance by running the fridge and occasional heating to see if we were likely to survive a week off grid. All went well and the gas lasted about five days before it ran out. I figured that by turning the gas off to the fridge every night we would just about get by. We wouldn't need gas for cooking as we would be eating with friends at a nearby hotel.

The first minor crisis now! Having burnt every last bit of gas off, I looked on the forum and the first thread to pop up is about an LPG shortage. Marvellous!! Fortunately, I was able to fill up first thing next day but I did spend that evening and night muttering "idiot" to myself.

The ferry was due to depart from Oban at 05:30, earlier than usual and for 'operational reasons', so we found a lovely spot a couple of miles outside town to park up for the night (thanks to @obanvanman ). It was freezing so I tried to put the heater on..... nothing happened. The hob worked so we had a bite to eat, cursed the heater and went to bed. Next morning the van was frozen over and still no heater .

We got to Tiree and, after another freezing night, decided to light the oven to warm the place a little while we got up and dressed. We usually use some cloths to stop the oven rattling so I removed these first.... but, in the half light, I didn't notice the black one at the back. Five minutes later the smoke alarm went off . Strangely, the oven flame was fading until no longer lit and wouldn't re-light.

The hob worked, so we decided to make a cuppa, but watched the flame fade away under the kettle. Soon the hob didn't work either. No problem, I have a mini camping stove with an aerosol type gas canister that would do the job. Or not. It was so cold the butane in the canister wouldn't gas off to light the ring. Five minutes in bed with a freezing aerosol sorted that one out

So, I figured the problem was with the regulator (Truma Mono Control CS) as we had a full tank of gas. The gas taps were all fully on, I checked the crash sensor reset on the regulator, as we had hit a couple of mighty deep potholes on the way to Oban, then eventually removed, whacked and reset the regulator but all to no avail.

After a miserably cold few nights, we did the 'Motorhome walk of shame' and checked in to the hotel for the last few days, absolutely no regrets whatsoever! Bliss.

We stopped off at Keswick CCC site on the way back - I don't think they made much profit as we used every kilowatt of power we could getting the van warmed again .

It seems the Truma regulator is known to block when used with LPG, as mentioned in a few threads on this forum, but our tank has barely been used. I've only filled it three times but thought I may have caused the problem by running the tank completely dry so I've been looking to get a new regulator and the recommended filter to go with it. Time hasn't been on my side and I haven't got it fixed for going away this weekend so I've been out to the van to think about what to do. I thought I'd just try and switch a ring on the cooker on and it worked, everything works!

If you have read this far, any suggestions about why it packed up? The LPG was from the local Shell station, so I assume the quality is ok. Temperatures were around freezing but not much below zero. I'm stumped, but will carry on using everything as usual and hope it's magically fixed forever.

Ahh yes, the two items! The little camping stove and a 2 litre garden spray that we bought to clean the dog. Warm a kettle full of water on the stove, fill the sprayer and you can have a warm(ish) shower with about a litre of water! Perfect to save water if wild camping, or in emergencies when the gas runs out!
Images aren't our exact ones but similar.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Wife thinks I am mad carrying these

 

[CazPaul]

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

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[wigster]

Maybe buy a 2kw genny just in case if you go out in the wilds and get stuck for power you could have powered an oil filled rad to keep the chill off. A halogen oven for cooking as well.
I have no choice i have to carry one because its built in to my van . Hardly ever use it but a few times it has been priceless . Not the best option i know but at the falls of shin 2 other vans in the stopover at least charged there batts up in the gloom from us.
I have solar panel 210 amp leasure batts inverter etc and normally all good but as i long term its nice to know its there.

 

[wigster]

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

You are not wrong .

 

[dave newell]

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

It is when you leave cloths in there.

Just to clear up a small detail, a gas regulator in a caravan or motorhome will ALWAYS be used with lpg, Calor gas is lpg, propane is lpg, butane is lpg. Lpg is Liquified Petroleum Gas and covers a range of gases.
D.

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[scotjimland]

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

The oven will only produce CO if starved of oxygen. It will have external ventilation to provide the combustion air for clean burning , always check that the burner flame is blue and not yellow. If yellow it is producing deadly carbon monoxide and shouldn't be used until it's been serviced. The same applies to the hob burners or any other open flame appliance.

 

[scotjimland]

@The2i's LPG can have a residue that affects regulators, and will collect in it if mounted below the top of the bottle outlet. Rubber pigtails have also been known to deteriorate and produce a sticky substance that also glogs regulators.. Truma regulators are also notorious for failing.

To eliminate the problem, if regulator not above bottle, remount above it, fit a Clesse regulator and a stainless steel hose.. both available form Gaslow.

 

[Puddleduck]

I'm wondering if there was a "void" in the system after you had run the gas down to nothing.

When we had (both) our refillable systems fitted at Autogas the hob was left to burn (on full) for several minutes after fitting (and well away from the filling depot) and it went out and was relit to vent / pull through the gas if I recall. I also vaguely recall Chris saying that if we ever ran out of gas we should turn on the hob and light it (might take several attempts and it might splutter and go out a few times) to vent the system.

We have one of those little stoves in the house plus a little gas heater that runs from the same size canister just in case of power cuts Has come in handy a few times but ventilation is needed (especially for the heater)

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[Basildog]

We went to Tiree, one of the Inner Hebridean islands, at Easter. We had booked a space on a croft with no facilities and, knowing we'd have no chance of topping up the LPG on the island, I decided to experiment in advance by running the fridge and occasional heating to see if we were likely to survive a week off grid. All went well and the gas lasted about five days before it ran out. I figured that by turning the gas off to the fridge every night we would just about get by. We wouldn't need gas for cooking as we would be eating with friends at a nearby hotel.

The first minor crisis now! Having burnt every last bit of gas off, I looked on the forum and the first thread to pop up is about an LPG shortage. Marvellous!! Fortunately, I was able to fill up first thing next day but I did spend that evening and night muttering "idiot" to myself.

The ferry was due to depart from Oban at 05:30, earlier than usual and for 'operational reasons', so we found a lovely spot a couple of miles outside town to park up for the night (thanks to @obanvanman ). It was freezing so I tried to put the heater on..... nothing happened. The hob worked so we had a bite to eat, cursed the heater and went to bed. Next morning the van was frozen over and still no heater .

We got to Tiree and, after another freezing night, decided to light the oven to warm the place a little while we got up and dressed. We usually use some cloths to stop the oven rattling so I removed these first.... but, in the half light, I didn't notice the black one at the back. Five minutes later the smoke alarm went off . Strangely, the oven flame was fading until no longer lit and wouldn't re-light.

The hob worked, so we decided to make a cuppa, but watched the flame fade away under the kettle. Soon the hob didn't work either. No problem, I have a mini camping stove with an aerosol type gas canister that would do the job. Or not. It was so cold the butane in the canister wouldn't gas off to light the ring. Five minutes in bed with a freezing aerosol sorted that one out

So, I figured the problem was with the regulator (Truma Mono Control CS) as we had a full tank of gas. The gas taps were all fully on, I checked the crash sensor reset on the regulator, as we had hit a couple of mighty deep potholes on the way to Oban, then eventually removed, whacked and reset the regulator but all to no avail.

After a miserably cold few nights, we did the 'Motorhome walk of shame' and checked in to the hotel for the last few days, absolutely no regrets whatsoever! Bliss.

We stopped off at Keswick CCC site on the way back - I don't think they made much profit as we used every kilowatt of power we could getting the van warmed again .

It seems the Truma regulator is known to block when used with LPG, as mentioned in a few threads on this forum, but our tank has barely been used. I've only filled it three times but thought I may have caused the problem by running the tank completely dry so I've been looking to get a new regulator and the recommended filter to go with it. Time hasn't been on my side and I haven't got it fixed for going away this weekend so I've been out to the van to think about what to do. I thought I'd just try and switch a ring on the cooker on and it worked, everything works!

If you have read this far, any suggestions about why it packed up? The LPG was from the local Shell station, so I assume the quality is ok. Temperatures were around freezing but not much below zero. I'm stumped, but will carry on using everything as usual and hope it's magically fixed forever.

Ahh yes, the two items! The little camping stove and a 2 litre garden spray that we bought to clean the dog. Warm a kettle full of water on the stove, fill the sprayer and you can have a warm(ish) shower with about a litre of water! Perfect to save water if wild camping, or in emergencies when the gas runs out!
Images aren't our exact ones but similar.

As a matter of interest what was the outside temperature roughly ?

 

[scotjimland]

As a matter of interest what was the outside temperature roughly ?

If you are referring to being too cold for Butane gas , the OP is using refillable bottles, LPG is Propane, will work down to about minus 40c

 

[Basildog]

If you are referring to being too cold for Butane gas , the OP is using refillable bottles, LPG is Propane, will work down to about minus 40c

No I had seen that already , I was actually thinking of the regulator freezing.

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[Pausim]

Did you turn the gas off before filling? If not perhaps some grot got blasted into the regulator which has now cleared. Only a guess, not had my refillable system long.

 

[scotjimland]

No I had seen that already , I was actually thinking of the regulator freezing.

fair point, unlikely, but thanks for clarifying

 

[The2i's]

Maybe buy a 2kw genny just in case....

That would be nice but, as we're in a PVC, we're a bit short of space and pushing our weight limit until I get the van replated. I should probably throw the microwave out and replace it with a genny, much more useful. We only use the microwave to keep nibbles in to go with the G & T's!

As a matter of interest what was the outside temperature roughly ?

Overnight, round about freezing. The weather was fabulous, a little chilly due to strong breezes, beautiful, clear blue skies by day and clear skies at night.

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[Basildog]

fair point, unlikely, but thanks for clarifying

Not as unlikely as you may think , I have been out to many statics with exactly that problem.
Can be caused by condensation build up inside and sometimes the vent hole blocks .
A kettle of hot water often solves the problem

 

[busby]

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

Only if there is no ventilation or you go to bed ,,,,BUSBY,,

 

[cranky]

I used to carry one of these until it was revealed that the motorhome fire at New Year a couple of years ago was caused by one of these canisters leaking and being ignited by the fridge pilot light. Be careful where you store it.

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[Dazzles]

One of the advantages to carrying exchange bottles rather than a fill system is you can pick up bottles pretty much anywhere.

 

[scotjimland]

Not as unlikely as you may think ,

ok.. I can only speak from personal experience.. 30+ years

When there is a high take off of gas, frost forming on the outside of a regulator is quite normal, nothing to be concentred about, usually just a sign that humidity is at a level capable of producing condensation.

Although regulators can freeze under normal operating conditions, there are times when regulators are freezing because of actual problems.

One of the issues causing a regulator to freeze is liquid propane entering the regulator, which can cause the effect of extreme freezing'

There are two ways that can happen, 1) If the bottle is overfilled or, 2) If the tank, usually a bottle, is not upright Both of these scenarios are possible and while avoidable, are not very common. for example, a faulty 80% cut off valve .

None of this is caused by ambient being too cold

 

[DavidG58]

You are not wrong .

Lighting the oven to warm the place surely that's really dangerous.

Can’t see this being any different to using the grill just a bit more heat, or just use the hob instead

To OP @The2i's we have not been to Tiree how would you rate it compared to other islands if you have done more?

Any photos to show us please

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[Nasher]

I have diesel heating in my van, so LPG not an issue, but for emergencies i will just whisper this:

Clarke IG950 generator from machine mart - Vat free offer so about £180 - don't tell the others!

 

[scotjimland]

LPG not an issue

never found LPG an 'issue' .. it's cheap , clean and readily available all over Europe.

and with solar, have no need of a smelly noisy genny ..

 

[Minxy]

View attachment 226263 I used to carry one of these until it was revealed that the motorhome fire at New Year a couple of years ago was caused by one of these canisters leaking and being ignited by the fridge pilot light. Be careful where you store it.

Can you point me to the info about that as it would be interesting to read about it.

We have one of these stoves but the smaller one (originally sold by Asda) which packs up very small and you HAVE to remove the cylinder to do so, no danger of us leaving it in when packed away.

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[Nasher]

never found LPG an 'issue'

Please accept my apologies, I should have typed "so LPG not an issue for me"

I am not anti LPG, the reason I do not have LPG in my MoHo is that I use the MoHo to carry smelly, noisy motorcycles and don't want naked flames

 

[sallylillian]

My Truma duo sort of failed after 2 years, despite the obligatory filters. Mine just decided to take gas from both bottles simultaneously, and whatever I did with advice from here it would not stay on only one bottle. After an engineer inspection it was deemed faulty and replaced FOC. I now carry a spare!

 

[Spriddler]

One of the advantages to carrying exchange bottles rather than a fill system is you can pick up bottles pretty much anywhere.

I fitted a Gaslow refillable and kept one of my Calor exchangeables purely to have a refill option at home and/or abroad.

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[Dazzles]

I fitted a Gaslow refillable and kept one of my Calor exchangeables purely to have a refill option at home and/or abroad.

View attachment 226313

Good idea. We carry 2 Spanish bottles, just need to change the connections. Might invest in a gas flow system.

 

[Spriddler]

Good idea. We carry 2 Spanish bottles, just need to change the connections. Might invest in a gas flow system.

It suits me fine as my gas usage is fairly low as I don't do much m/homing in brass monkey's weather. 'Er indoors says she doesn't enjoy wintering in a garden shed. (Nor do I, but I don't let on as one day I may need some compromise/concession points up my sleeve ).
I can't fill the Calor cylinder 'over there' but there are loads of LPG garages so never had a problem but use the Calor as a standby.

 

[The2i's]

To OP @The2i's we have not been to Tiree how would you rate it compared to other islands if you have done more?

Any photos to show us please

@DavidG58 - Here are some photos.

Nearly all photos are on the coast as that's where we spent nearly all of our time. Random people in the pictures are friends, it was really quiet and we rarely saw other people out walking.
The first picture is at the layby near Oban where we parked overnight before getting the ferry.
Tiree is a very flat island with only a couple of small hills but, unlike Harris, is very green. Sheep and cattle seem to roam freely everywhere, so dogs need to be on a lead most of the time (unless your dog is more obedient than ours). Like a lot of the Highlands and islands, the weather can make a massive difference. We've been really lucky and had excellent weather most times that we've been out to the islands. It's a small island, you could drive every bit of road within an hour or two, travelling slowly, but you wouldn't want to rush - it's so laid back and the islanders are generally very friendly.
You have to get a permit to stay on the island with a motorhome and stay on one of a number of designated crofts. We stayed on croft 12 as it was adjacent to the Lodge hotel, great for bar or restaurant meals and the odd tipple. The view from the van was spectacular. Scarinish is the main village (Co-op, bank and another pub/restaurant) and is a quick drive or half hour walk away.
The ferry takes four hours from Oban, which includes a stop at the Isle of Coll. We would have booked a day or two there, but the only permitted place for overnighting doesn't allow dogs. Coll looks to be much rockier and doesn't seem to have the same golden beaches.

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