Interesting (and frustrating), our legal advice on our motorhome.

Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
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Exp
.
I've started a new thread on this to be brief and to the point.
Story so far:
MH delivered last September, 25% damp found in December. Repair attempt by dealer in February, assured that it will be fine now. Damp check in July by me showed 38% but a professional test by my mobile engineer showed 50-55% confirmed by dealer.
The converter has written to me saying they want to do a complete repair at factory.

I have instructed solicitors to examine this to see if I have any grounds for redress of any kind. I spoke with her today and basically it seems our options are limited.
Rejection is ruled out as we have had use for 1 year which leaves rescinding the contract implying that I could get my money back less an amount for the use we have had or asking for a replacement.

However, as the converter has asked for a chance to repair then a judge would most likely deem this to be satisfactory and be most unlikely to give me any redress under the sale of goods act.
I know the converter will have to take the roof off and take out ceiling panels. To examine the wall where most of the ceiling damp is adjacent to will require taking out the washroom. The nearside wall will have to be examined so goodness knows what has to come out there!
Virtually a rebuild of a new MH!

I'm certain the MH will come back to us with a clean bill of health from the converter with an extension of warranty to keep us quiet.
It seems virtually impossible to hold converters to account for hidden defects that only come to light at the first service when massive structural damage has already occurred. At least ours was found early on by a constructors engineer when doing a recall repair on something else, not that it's done us any good!
Because we should now have it repaired by the converter the solicitor has said we can now take it to France for a holiday but I've lost so much heart over this that we are going to rent a cottage in Northumberland from tomorrow.
We love the MH really, the perfect continuation after years of caravanning but honestly this has drained me and I'll probably sell it and have done:(
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
18,959
55,117
kent
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
Did you pay any part of the purchase with a credit card?

If you did, make sure your solicitor knows about it.

Good luck
 

Badknee

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 25, 2014
5,321
38,146
notloB
Funster No
33,046
MH
Hobby 750 tag.
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Full timing for five years and loving it!
What a nightmare. The only thing good about it is they will make damned sure it's dry and waterproof for a long time to come I would think.
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
.
Exp
.
Did you pay any part of the purchase with a credit card?

If you did, make sure your solicitor knows about it.

Good luck
We paid the deposit of £2000 by credit card but the ceiling under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is £30,000, we paid £41,000 so no use to us!
Thanks for your good wishes.
 
Feb 16, 2013
11,705
14,592
uttoxeter
Funster No
24,713
MH
ambulance conversion
Exp
50 years
sorry to hear that BUT,you never know you might come out of it with a better than new van,they won't want any more comebacks, and with loss of use you might get your next holiday free
 

DBK

Jan 9, 2013
13,251
20,916
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
I suggest accept the complete repair at the factory and then decide if you want to sell it afterwards - but you will take a massive hit financially.

Personally, I can't see what the problem is if the converter* does it - they built thing from scratch to begin with. I would have no hesitation accepting their offer - it isn't right it leaked but they have offered to put you back to where you hoped to be when you bought the vehicle. At least you have been spared the problem of getting the run around by the dealer - because they are the person you had the contract with, not the converter.

I stress you shouldn't have been put in this position but if legally it looks as if you can't reject it then what is on the table sounds good to me - assuming the repair is done to a standard where the vehicle is indistinguishable from new which I would expect the manufacturer should be able to do.

* By converter I assume you mean the manufacturer of the MH.
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
.
Exp
.
I suggest accept the complete repair at the factory and then decide if you want to sell it afterwards - but you will take a massive hit financially.

Personally, I can't see what the problem is if the converter* does it - they built thing from scratch to begin with. I would have no hesitation accepting their offer - it isn't right it leaked but they have offered to put you back to where you hoped to be when you bought the vehicle. At least you have been spared the problem of getting the run around by the dealer - because they are the person you had the contract with, not the converter.

I stress you shouldn't have been put in this position but if legally it looks as if you can't reject it then what is on the table sounds good to me - assuming the repair is done to a standard where the vehicle is indistinguishable from new which I would expect the manufacturer should be able to do.

* By converter I assume you mean the manufacturer of the MH.
This is the voice of reason and common sense and I can't really argue with much of what you say.
One point is, how can I be sure that they have done a first class job? Just how completely are they going to strip it down and reveal the true extent of water damage? Guess I'll never know!
I read on here "don't buy new and don't buy British", there may be some truth in that.

Yes, the "converter" is the manufacturer.
You make the valid point about taking a massive loss on resale value, the more so if I were to reveal to any buyer the extent of damage and repair. I would feel morally bound to do this.
So really, having bought a MH not "free of defect" and not "of durable quality" to paraphrase the SOG Act and having to have this MH virtually deconstructed after 1 year plus taking a hit on resale value I have to meekly hand it back and cross my fingers that having a second bite at the cherry will enable them to turn out a decent product.
 

DuxDeluxe

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 10, 2008
11,070
28,984
Planet Zog
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3,243
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A Class Le Voyageur
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since 2008
A course of action might be to look and see what other vans of that marque suffer from issues and then look at the problem as a whole. You may well have been really unlucky, but at least the best people are doing the repair and they will make doubly sure that it is a good one.

It is a shame that you have had to go through all this. Commendably - you don't mention the maker/converter, which has kept this thread sensible and related to the issue itself. Thanks for that
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
.
Exp
.
A course of action might be to look and see what other vans of that marque suffer from issues and then look at the problem as a whole. You may well have been really unlucky, but at least the best people are doing the repair and they will make doubly sure that it is a good one.

It is a shame that you have had to go through all this. Commendably - you don't mention the maker/converter, which has kept this thread sensible and related to the issue itself. Thanks for that
Funnily enough I've been corresponding with an owner who posted on another forum who has a near identical problem. It appears to be a design fault peculiar to this converter.
It would be wrong of me to name names, be quite counter productive. Paradoxically we love the MH, it's layout and size are perfectly suited to our needs and our relationship with the dealer has always been cordial, even during our many visits to fix the multitude of other problems.
 

Badknee

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 25, 2014
5,321
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Funster No
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Hobby 750 tag.
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Full timing for five years and loving it!
Apart from not being able to afford a brand new van we keep on hearing horror stories about "multitudes" of problems, it's just not right really is it?
 

scotjimland

Free Member
Jul 25, 2007
32,020
29,505
.
Funster No
15
MH
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Exp
.
I feel your pain.. how disappointing it must be.

You buy a dream, and it turns into a lemon.. I'm really sorry you have had all this to contend with when all you want is to go out and enjoy it.. stress that you could well do without.

We will be buying a new van early next year and I was going to ask what make and model.. but in my heart I think I know who it is.. and it was pretty much confirmed when you said British..

I can't offer any legal advice.. not my field , but I thought you would have been due some compensation for denial of use.. anyways.. good luck with the repair.. hopefully you can put this behind you sooner rather than later and get out to enjoy it.
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
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Exp
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Apart from not being able to afford a brand new van we keep on hearing horror stories about "multitudes" of problems, it's just not right really is it?
Nailed:D
 

DBK

Jan 9, 2013
13,251
20,916
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
I think you could reasonably ask what they are going to do, although until they get it to their factory they won't really know. If distance is not a problem ask to visit once they have completed the strip down. I must believe the manufacturer is embarrassed by your experience and will want to keep you on side.
I expect they should put their best people on the task, again worth asking who is going to do the job.
 
Feb 24, 2013
10,669
31,983
Bolsover, Derbyshire
Funster No
24,833
MH
Hymer S800
Exp
not long enough
Like the replies already and I am sure all of us on here we share your woes and hope it all gets sorted

It might be a long round trip but how about asking to go and see it mid repair to see for yourself just how far they have gone with the dismantle and what exactly they have found, at least you will have a few more answers, if not more questions!!

(y)

edit


DBK types quicker and more concise replies
 
Feb 16, 2013
11,705
14,592
uttoxeter
Funster No
24,713
MH
ambulance conversion
Exp
50 years
go and see what they are doing and get allsorts of this years improvements and maybe you will come better off
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
When we sold our last van (to a dealer and luckily no comebacks to me) I found out shortly afterwards that it was in a similar state to the one you describe. Not brand new - it was a 2011 model. It had a valid, 9 month old, hab check certificate from the (different) dealer we bought it from. I have to say I wasn't all that surprised - a few weeks before at a music festival I was collared by someone with an identical van who explained the design flaw that causes the issue in great detail and told me it had happened to his van. I wonder if it's the same manufacturer. Mack100 PM me if you want to know who it was.
 

tambo

Free Member
Jun 21, 2014
875
641
Dunfermline fife scotland
Funster No
32,052
MH
a class
Exp
MH Since 2008, ex tugger and vw campers since 1992
I might be wrong but im sure the walls and the roof are the last parts to be fitted so they may well just remove the roof and both walls to rectify damage rather than strip things out

I know in the brochure I had for my eura mobil that it showed a picture of the vans on production line and all units etc were fitted on the floor and it had no walls or roof


So if they do that and fit new walls and roof panels then it may come back as good as new
 

DBK

Jan 9, 2013
13,251
20,916
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
My experience of a new British van is very different but I did buy from a small company and they are not the cheapest. We have not had a single fault in 15 months. Nothing has fallen off, no leaks, squeaks or creaks.
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
.
Exp
.
If I told you where the converter was I'd be giving the game away:LOL: but a visit would be useful.
@tambo:
By walls do you mean the external walls?
@DB:
a friend of mine has a PVC like yours, quite outstanding!
 

tambo

Free Member
Jun 21, 2014
875
641
Dunfermline fife scotland
Funster No
32,052
MH
a class
Exp
MH Since 2008, ex tugger and vw campers since 1992
If I told you where the converter was I'd be giving the game away:LOL: but a visit would be useful.
@tambo:
By walls do you mean the external walls?
@DB:
a friend of mine has a PVC like yours, quite outstanding!
Yes it seems I didn't imagine it .....if you do a Google search "motorhome construction video" you will see a youtube video of adria factory construction.......all the units fridges etc a fitted to the floor and chassis first then the exterior wall panels and finally the roof


So if they find water in the wall panels as well as the roof panel I'd guess they'll remove them completely and refitted new ones .....well hopefully anyway
 
Dec 21, 2011
3,367
2,777
London
Funster No
19,230
MH
IH PVC
Exp
Since 2012
I might be wrong but im sure the walls and the roof are the last parts to be fitted so they may well just remove the roof and both walls to rectify damage rather than strip things out

I know in the brochure I had for my eura mobil that it showed a picture of the vans on production line and all units etc were fitted on the floor and it had no walls or roof


So if they do that and fit new walls and roof panels then it may come back as good as new

We went to Autotrail to watch the vans being built and this is how they did it. Everything was installed on a floor plate and the walls and roof dropped on afterwards.

As Tambo states it should come back as good as new (y)
 

Silver-Fox

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 5, 2014
4,847
7,828
Cheltenham Spa
Funster No
33,201
MH
Rapido
Exp
im a not so newbie
What a state this is

I dont think it would be unreasonable to see the repair whilst it is being done

Also i would want something in writing to the effect if there is a hint of water ingress, in the following 3 years or the amount of time you own it, a brand new MH will be provided to you at no charge. you may find out how confident they will be in their repair.

Obviously some form of compensation should be forthcoming for loss of use and the amount of grief you have had, not to mention costs having to go back to the retailer.Personally i wouldn't necessarily be looking for just cash an alternative would do me.

Good luck with the repair
 

jhorsf

Free Member
May 15, 2009
9,154
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DERBYSHIRE
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6,717
MH
ih oregon
Exp
2000
I do wonder what sort of job they will make of "repairing" your van if they could not make a good job when they were making money off it.If they were any sort of company they should ask what you would like, a repair,a refund,or a replacement it is the honest way to do business.I really feel for you no one should be treated so badly .
 

longdog

Free Member
Apr 16, 2013
233
232
Swansea, South Wales
Funster No
25,566
MH
C Class
Exp
Since 2012
Get in touch with Trading Standards, they will listen to your tale and give you a reference number.

Always quote the Sale of goods Act 1979 (as amended) in any correspondence.

It worked for me and it has worked for others with damp motorhomes.

Set out in writing, the nature of the fault, what has or hasn't been done, give your expectations, (i.e. Money back plus expenses or replacement motorhome), and a timescale. Always quote the Sale of Goods Act 1979 ( as amended), you will see a change in their attitude towards you at the very least.
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
18,959
55,117
kent
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
Funnily enough I've been corresponding with an owner who posted on another forum who has a near identical problem. It appears to be a design fault peculiar to this converter.
It would be wrong of me to name names, be quite counter productive. Paradoxically we love the MH, it's layout and size are perfectly suited to our needs and our relationship with the dealer has always been cordial, even during our many visits to fix the multitude of other problems.
If it's a known fault and it wasn't revealed to you at the point of sale then possibly your right to reject hasn't been lost - after all you have been using the van and accepting the goods when the other party knew, or ought to have known ( given all the similar complaints) , that you were in fact sitting on a major problem.

Like all Court cases though it's a risk and you need to be a little cautious and not let your principles get in the way of common sense.
 
Aug 19, 2010
349
335
trawden lancs
Funster No
13,283
MH
A class
Exp
2010
Hi we have not read the whole thread so don’t know if it's mentioned have a look at the "Lemon law" it's directed at cars but you have bought a lemon if the converter can not get it right with new materials how are they going to get it right with already used materials
John b
 
OP
Mack100
Jul 27, 2013
722
2,242
Funster No
27,162
MH
.
Exp
.
Some interesting replies on here, at the end of the day (sorry!) it's up to some crusty old judge and as we all know there can be some really weird decisions in court.
I'm reminded of the judgement against the RV owner who lost his case concerning vehicle width because nobody had previously been prosecuted because of it.
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
18,959
55,117
kent
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
Some interesting replies on here, at the end of the day (sorry!) it's up to some crusty old judge and as we all know there can be some really weird decisions in court.
I'm reminded of the judgement against the RV owner who lost his case concerning vehicle width because nobody had previously been prosecuted because of it.
Actually the worst decisions come from younger Deputy District Judges( for that read solicitors who fancy a change)some of whom are absolutely crap.
 
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