If you were to get a new laptop…….

[Googlebot]

Not on this thread maybe, but I've AWS work colleagues who have switched back to Windows OS after dabbling in Macs.
Maybe related to our specific application & usage

edit: soz - you wrote 'aren't many' already'

I think you’re dead right, each product suits people differently.

 

[Coolcats]

You can never convince apple fans that they are being ripped off by a very slick marketing operation.

it is much more than a slick marketing operation the goods do what they say on the tin. You can buy a 4gigabit Raspberry pi for £54 or 8 for around £75 load it up with rasbrian software and have a use computer with free open source word processing etc, great little computers here is mine (must dust those fans). Ideal for projects which many on here have used them for but actually Apple have a brilliant product in the MacBook

 

[funflair]

Swapping that over to phones, I have an iPhone for personal use and a Samsung for a work phone and the iPhone runs rings round the Samsung, it’s bloody rubbish and so user unfriendly, just my honest opinion

You already love the apple product so even better when your laptop is apple as well as it all integrates, change a number or email in contacts on your laptop and it's on your phone as well, take a photo on your phone and it's on your laptop, add a calendar date on your phone and it's on your laptop etc etc etc.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Your paying for years of OS updates upfront along with security updates plus a spreadsheet, word processing presentation software, quality hardware for a stable platform. Windows is also proprietary

You are also making the current CEO of Apple a billionaire. How very nice for him even though he is a mere manager.

With ref to your ealier post, apart from a refurb Thinkpad all my Windoze laptops still work and one that I bought in 2004 still works, as does an even older Toshy that is in occasional use to run some MS-DOS software. A 3 year life? Perhaps recent ones are made to fail.

Waiting for Apple mac prices to drop to reasonable levels ... still waiting ... when the current HP lappy needs replacing (when support ends for Win 10) I will think hard about Apple.

 

[berni109]

Your money spend it how you like it's yours to do as you will.
A bit of conspicuous consumption now and again makes most people feel good
BUT
Apple hype does not justify their prices IMHO.
Just consider their product placement budget - how often do you see any computer on TV or film that does not have a little glowing apple prominently displayed.
How does it go ? You can fool some of the people some of the time ...

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[kevenh]

You already love the apple product so even better when your laptop is apple as well as it all integrates, change a number or email in contacts on your laptop and it's on your phone as well, take a photo on your phone and it's on your laptop, add a calendar date on your phone and it's on your laptop etc etc etc.

iTunes on Windows and iCloud for Windows links my apple & MS Windows worlds. My email is cloud based so also available Windows & iPhone.
There aren't any integration gaps I know of, that haven't been filled with solutions directly by apple or Microsoft.
ymmv

 

[Gellyneck]

Waiting for Apple mac prices to drop to reasonable levels ... still waiting ... when the current HP lappy needs replacing (when support ends for Win 10) I will think hard about Apple.

and then go for a Linux based machine!

 

[Tonks]

Mac. Without hesitation.
My last MBP was a 2013 machine and I used it last week for something as my current MBP didn't have the necessary software loaded. It's slow now, but still works fine with no problem. Would work faster if I swapped the memory for SSD, but it's not worth the cost for the amount it's used now.
My current MBP was bought as a reconditioned machine, and apart from a small mark on the case I wouldn't have know it wasn't new.
When my old (previous company supplied) Blackberry was getting old and staggery I moved to an iPhone simply because it syncs seamlessly with my MBP and iPad. (I bought an iPhone 11pro at the point the 12 was released, and thus saved a couple of hundred quid.)
I'm a dedicated Mac user now. But I don't change my phone every year, or upgrade my laptops frequently. I've had two in 9 years...

 

[Arnside037]

You already love the apple product so even better when your laptop is apple as well as it all integrates, change a number or email in contacts on your laptop and it's on your phone as well, take a photo on your phone and it's on your laptop, add a calendar date on your phone and it's on your laptop etc etc etc.

My 10 year old HP laptop does all that too. Its called Google (Gmail, Contacts, Calendar, Maps, Photos, Keep, etc) and you then have a lots of equipment to choose within your budget.
( I do like the latest ARM chips used by Apple re speed and battery consumption. Shame they aren't available on other platforms. Always liked ARM. Sold my shares in ARM after they shot up, to pay off the mortgage and retire, many moons ago, )

 

[cmcardle75]

Apple like most outsource their manufacturing, the chip was designed by Apple and happens to be manufactured by ARM it is much more than a customised chip, with Apples IP they could have chosen another chip manufacture it doesn't matter other than it is a highly effective design.

I'm sure they do outsource their manufacturing of the M1. But not to ARM, which is a specialist designer of processor cores and architectures and does not do manufacturing. Indeed, they are manufactured by TSMC, a major Taiwanese silicon fabricator.

Apple has a high level architectural licence from ARM, so is permitted to make significantly more substantial modifications to the standard designs than holders of the standard licence, who will typically just use a ARM Cortex core verbatim, right down to the layout of the transistors. Apple's designers, I'm sure, will have completely redesigned the actual core layouts from scratch for maximum speed and pushed the big/little architecture forward, but underneath, it is still an ARM processor and Apple continue to pay ARM the required royalties for selling them.

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[the1andonly]

I don't use Apple products, Windows or Linux only, and one of the main reasons I use Windows is BaseCamp doesn't run on Linux or Wine.

As said, BaseCamp runs on both Windows or Apple. Download links for both versions here https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/software/basecamp/

The need for a particular application always seems to tie us back to windows. In my case multiecuscan and VCDS can the they be run under wine and if so detailed guidence would be appreciated. Gellyneck
Most of my needs can be run on puppy linux or this Samsung tablet. Alternative software can sometimes be found eg Gimp for photoshop elements (but i paid for it and got used to it).
In the wider world i have never seen apple equipment control manufacturing equipment, only windoz and linux (open architecture) not relevant to op.

 

[Richard n Ann]

A great British company:

ARM architecture family - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Stonemags76]

If you just want it to work when you switch it on (without being a computer engineer!), then it’s Apple every time! You would have to pay me to go back to windows, as every time I came to use it it needed something fixing! We also have a 12 year old macbook that still works - had to replace my windows machines about every three years (& they weren’t cheap ones to start with!).

 

[carolyn]

Mac ”because you’re worth it”. Well that’s how I justify it anyway when I need/want a new iphone, ipad or laptop. The Macbook Pro is 6 years old now and Nick is in charge of keeping that going but when it dies it will be replaced with another without any hesitation.

He is happy with his cheap android phone and cheap notepad( I think it’s a Samsung).

I love my Iphone and my ipad, I love the fact that everything syncs seamlessly.

With the Macbook Pro we’ve never had a problem with viruses, even our previous one was fine, no having to download other software.

I’m not techy minded at all, it’s just so easy, if I don’t know how to do something I just google it and there’s always a simple step by step guide.

 

[makems]

Not on this thread maybe, but I've AWS work colleagues who have switched back to Windows OS after dabbling in Macs.
Maybe related to our specific application & usage

edit: soz - you wrote 'aren't many' already'

i found the switch to Mac quite traumatic - especially coming to terms with not having control over where data is stored - Mac makes a lot of decisions for you. However once I got over that it was a smooth ride. I was committed to Mac because I had already got rid of my MS PC. I could imagine that if you could go back easily the difficulty in adapting to the totally different approach to many things might persuade you to do that.
One other important thing about Apple is that you actually get FREE SUPPORT! on one occasion I needed a re-install of OS which was done remotely by a friendly chap in Apple Support. Another time I needed some help with iCloud - again sorted out on the phone FOR FREE.
Finally, iCloud automatically backs up your data for Mac, iphone and icloud with no effort - just switch it on (monthly charges for data storage like any other cloud storage system)

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[kevenh]

i found the switch to Mac quite traumatic - especially coming to terms with not having control over where data is stored - Mac makes a lot of decisions for you. However once I got over that it was a smooth ride. I was committed to Mac because I had already got rid of my MS PC. I could imagine that if you could go back easily the difficulty in adapting to the totally different approach to many things might persuade you to do that.
One other important thing about Apple is that you actually get FREE SUPPORT! on one occasion I needed a re-install of OS which was done remotely by a friendly chap in Apple Support. Another time I needed some help with iCloud - again sorted out on the phone FOR FREE.
Finally, iCloud automatically backs up your data for Mac, iphone and icloud with no effort - just switch it on (monthly charges for data storage like any other cloud storage system)

I used to find changing OS hard work but usually because I was trying to do tasks the old way. Usually at the expense of the new OS’ related better way.
So my change process is to learn the new OS
Online support is free for MS. But you’re describing getting a person on the end of a phone.

I’ve had good warranty phone support from MS. Only needed for a couple of product licensing application queries though.

Windows has an iCloud equivalent (OneDrive). But when I filled up the free allocation I added another vendor’s cloud

 

[Pablo19]

It makes me laugh when people compare a Mac with a windows laptop that cost less than half as much and say the Mac is far better. Same with phones. Macs and iphones are good no question but if you have any technological desire to do anything other than just "use" the device for it's obvious purpose then a Windows PC/laptop or Android wins hands down. I've had dual sim for years for example on an Android device to save me carrying 2 phones around but this has only just been copied by Apple for the iphone. That on it's own was a deal breaker for me. They are just too restricted and mainstream for me but each to their own.

 

[Pausim]

I keep reading that Windows laptops are much cheaper than Apple ones but is this a fair like for like comparison? There are cheap bottom end Windows laptops but there are no comparable Apple ones, they just don’t do cheap bottom end ones.

I have read a couple of articles suggesting that by the time you get a Windows laptop of comparable quality and performance there is very little price difference. One article compared a Microsoft Surface Studio with a MacBook Pro. The Microsoft one started out looking cheaper but by the time they had increased the spec to the same level as the Mac it cost slightly more.

It is still a matter of personal preference but when doing a price comparison you need to make sure you are comparing ones with the same build quality and performance specification.

 

[kevenh]

I keep reading that Windows laptops are much cheaper than Apple ones but is this a fair like for like comparison? There are cheap bottom end Windows laptops but there are no comparable Apple ones, they just don’t do cheap bottom end ones.

Yes, like for like on spec and use, Apple can be 3 or 4 the price.

My apple mac colleague and I ordered replacement new laptops at about the same time.
Our developer job roles have a Mac or Windows laptop spec option. His Mac was 3 times the price of my HP EliteBook 840 G7

Plus, I get to say "works on my rig" more often than he does. And better, never have to return to an IT office to have my laptop rebuilt like the Mac users. The latter I concede could be corporate builds of the apple IOS but

 

[Hettie's Crew]

WESTY66 If your thinking about a MacBook Air, it’s being replaced this year, due out Q2/Q3, that’s why the current M1 MacBook Air (2020) is reduced in price.

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[WESTY66]

You already love the apple product so even better when your laptop is apple as well as it all integrates, change a number or email in contacts on your laptop and it's on your phone as well, take a photo on your phone and it's on your laptop, add a calendar date on your phone and it's on your laptop etc etc etc.

Martin, I must be doing something wrong nothing links except emails and txt messages between my iphoneX and my iPad! Photos and any adjustments simply don’t carry over to the other, is it because I won’t pay extra for cloud space??

WESTY66 If your thinking about a MacBook Air, it’s being replaced this year, due out Q2/Q3, that’s why the current M1 MacBook Air (2020) is reduced in price.

I always get stuff that’s running out of date, I just can’t bring myself or my wallet to get the latest thing, but thanks for letting me know

Im pretty certain it’ll be an Apple Mac when I change

 

[TheMachMan]

Your money spend it how you like it's yours to do as you will.
A bit of conspicuous consumption now and again makes most people feel good
BUT
Apple hype does not justify their prices IMHO.
Just consider their product placement budget - how often do you see any computer on TV or film that does not have a little glowing apple prominently displayed.
How does it go ? You can fool some of the people some of the time ...

Of course Microsoft don’t spend any money on marketing!
As you say we are free to spend our money as we wish, but suggesting Apple users are being duped isn’t the sort of comment I’d expect from a fellow Funster!

 

[funflair]

Martin, I must be doing something wrong nothing links except emails and txt messages between my iphoneX and my iPad! Photos and any adjustments simply don’t carry over to the other, is it because I won’t pay extra for cloud space??

I always get stuff that’s running out of date, I just can’t bring myself or my wallet to get the latest thing, but thanks for letting me know

Im pretty certain it’ll be an Apple Mac when I change

You should still be able to sync without buying cloud space, you will need both/all devices on the same iTunes account.

 

[berni109]

You're Only duped if you believe the hype. Make your decision based on the facts as they pertain to you.

I’m not techy minded at all, it’s just so easy, if I don’t know how to do something I just google it and there’s always a simple step by step guide.

Apple products are particularly suited to a certain cross section of computer users and meet their needs perfectly.

Apple products are IMHO overpriced but please do as you want with your money.

I much prefer andriod based systems but then Google has a stranglehold over that operating system but the configuration is down to how I want it to be.

 

[AndyPK]

If it ‘works’ for you, does it REALLY matter what OS/Hardware you use……..?!?

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[MaidinDevon]

Interesting thread, I have a 2015 MacBook Pro, and don't really know how to use the functions, but i can do email, surf etc and so on. I have been waiting for it to pack up, or go slow, so I can justify going back to windows, but it doesn't seem to want to

My biggest gripe with the Apple products is they are very autocratic when it comes to passwords etc, and refuse to do what I want, but maybe i can get over myself. Also i have been lazy, and avoided learning the OS. However, i no longer need to use windows for work, so maybe I should turn my argument on its head and buy an Iphone, and while I am at it, maybe an Ipad as well.

My current phone is a Samsung 10+, it has an awesome camera. However, it is 3 years old, and beginning to play up.

Question. which Iphone would you recommend? I am happy to consider refurbished, or an older model, I don't need the latest kit, just something that works. I don't use my phone for gaming, but do want a decent camera. Battery life is important too.

If I decide to buy an Ipad, which one is good for MHF etc, and reading kindle on. Also for photos. Or sell the Macbook pro and buy an air instead?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[Coolcats]

You are also making the current CEO of Apple a billionaire. How very nice for him even though he is a mere manager.

With ref to your ealier post, apart from a refurb Thinkpad all my Windoze laptops still work and one that I bought in 2004 still works, as does an even older Toshy that is in occasional use to run some MS-DOS software. A 3 year life? Perhaps recent ones are made to fail.

Waiting for Apple mac prices to drop to reasonable levels ... still waiting ... when the current HP lappy needs replacing (when support ends for Win 10) I will think hard about Apple.

It is unlikely for the foreseeable future for macs to drop in price even at sale time they are not discounted (unless discontinued models) get a Mac you won’t regret it

 

[Coolcats]

I'm sure they do outsource their manufacturing of the M1. But not to ARM, which is a specialist designer of processor cores and architectures and does not do manufacturing. Indeed, they are manufactured by TSMC, a major Taiwanese silicon fabricator.

Apple has a high level architectural licence from ARM, so is permitted to make significantly more substantial modifications to the standard designs than holders of the standard licence, who will typically just use a ARM Cortex core verbatim, right down to the layout of the transistors. Apple's designers, I'm sure, will have completely redesigned the actual core layouts from scratch for maximum speed and pushed the big/little architecture forward, but underneath, it is still an ARM processor and Apple continue to pay ARM the required royalties for selling them.

Some details it’s a very sophisticated chip Apple have done a great job with this one.(copied from wiki but lots of other sources of info out thier

CPUEdit​

The M1 has four high-performance "Firestorm" and four energy-efficient "Icestorm" cores, providing a hybrid configuration similar to ARM DynamIQ and Intel's Lakefield and Alder Lakeprocessors.[8] This combination allows power-use optimizations not possible with previous Apple–Intel architecture devices. Apple claims the energy-efficient cores use one-tenth the power of the high-performance ones.[9] The high-performance cores have an unusually large[10] 192 KB of L1 instruction cache and 128 KB of L1 data cache and share a 12 MB L2 cache; the energy-efficient cores have a 128 KB L1 instruction cache, 64 KB L1 data cache, and a shared 4 MB L2 cache. The SoC also has a 16MB System Level Cache shared by the GPU.

GPUEdit​

The M1 integrates an Apple designed[3] eight-core (seven in some base models) graphics processing unit (GPU). Each GPU core is split into 16 Execution Units, which each contain eight Arithmetic Logic Units (ALUs). In total, the M1 GPU contains up to 128 Execution unitsor 1024 ALUs,[11] which Apple says can execute up to 24,576 threads simultaneously and which have a maximum floating point (FP32) performance of 2.6 TFLOPs.[8][12]

Other featuresEdit​

The M1 uses 4,266 MT/s LPDDR4X SDRAM[13]in a unified memory configuration shared by all the components of the processor. The SoC and RAM chips are mounted together in a system-in-a-package design. 8 GB and 16 GB configurations are available.

The M1 contains dedicated neural network hardware in a 16-core Neural Engine, capable of executing 11 trillion operations per second.[8] Other components include an image signal processor (ISP), an NVMe storage controller, Thunderbolt 4 controllers, and a Secure Enclave.

Supported codecs include H264 and H265 (8/10bit, up to 4:4:4), VP9, and JPEG.[citation needed]

 

[cmcardle75]

Apparently, as well as ARM versions of Linux it is now possible to run Windows for ARM on M1 Macs using virtualisation software (i.e. "Parallels"). This might enable people with a need for Windows software to run it using virtualisation and not need to have a separate Windows PC. I don't think you can install Windows 11 natively, as Macs don't have TPM chips, which is a Windows 11 requirement. However, that is presumably no hardship for people wanting to be in the Apple domain. I believe Windows 11 for ARM now has x86-64 emulation which allows even Intel native apps to run.

 

[Gellyneck]

If it ‘works’ for you, does it REALLY matter what OS/Hardware you use……..?!?

Stop it!

You're bringing incontrovertible logic to the thread!

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