Hydrogen powered commercial vehicles.

Apr 15, 2020
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It may be of interest to those who might be worrying about the future for motorhomes post 2030 when Diesel and Petrol vehicles will no longer be built in the UK.
In The Telegraph 31st March, there was an article about the car- making giant Stellantis making a production Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle on sale in the UK.
They are talking about real vehicles, not prototypes. France has 25 hydrogen filling stations, Germany 90 and the UK 12.
The new mid-sized fuel cell van, which will be badged as a Peugeot Expert, Citreon Dispatch and Opel Vivaro, will only be available as a left-hand drive vehicle this year, but by 2022 will also come to the UK as a right-hand drive Vauxhall Vivaro.
Hopefully this was not an early April Fools Day prank .
 

Badknee

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DBK

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The problem is how to sustainably produce the hydrogen. Almost all commercial hydrogen is currently made using a process which creates CO2 as a waste product.

We don't need more CO2.
 

Coolcats

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I think Gromett will be along soon and say it just won’t happen but here is the Reuters news personally I think there is a market for Hydrogen alongside Battery vehicles. Hyperion have a car that is designed to travel 1000 miles in a single tank of Hydrogen

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Coolcats

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The problem is how to sustainably produce the hydrogen. Almost all commercial hydrogen is currently made using a process which creates CO2 as a waste product.

We don't need more CO2.
Does not have to be so one plan is to generate hydrogen from wind turbines, there is other research producing hydrogen from sea water without generating CO2
 

Gromett

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I think Gromett will be along soon and say it just won’t happen but here is the Reuters news personally I think there is a market for Hydrogen alongside Battery vehicles. Hyperion have a car that is designed to travel 1000 miles in a single tank of Hydrogen
ok. Here I am :D

Your Rueters news article says "Stellantis says hydrogen fuel cell vans to hit Europe by end of 2021" ok. They may be made, but who the hell is going to buy them if you have no where to fill them?

As for the Hyperion... How many millions will this car cost. Not exactly going to be a big market for them.

In the meantime battery sales are expanding exponentially.

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Gromett

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Does not have to be so one plan is to generate hydrogen from wind turbines, there is other research producing hydrogen from sea water without generating CO2
That is called Electrolysis. Which as I have covered before uses VAST quantities of electric.

Wind -> Electric -> Battery -> motor. 80% of the generated electric is used to drive wheels.
Wind -> Electric -> Electrolyser -> compressor -> chiller -> transport -> pump -> battery -> fuel cell ->wheel only 25% of the generated electric is used to drive the wheels.

With hydrogen you need 4x as much electric generating capacity to get the same power at the motor for the wheel.
 

Coolcats

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As for the Hyperion... How many millions will this car cost. Not exactly going to be a big market for them.

In the meantime battery sales are expanding exponentially.
Maybe but I suspect the cost will not be dissimilar to the Lotus Evjia at around £1.7 Million for a battery car that will do 215 miles on a charge (Oh and I do love Lotus and I have been fortunate to own a number of them)
 

Coolcats

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That is called Electrolysis. Which as I have covered before uses VAST quantities of electric.

Wind -> Electric -> Battery -> motor. 80% of the generated electric is used to drive wheels.
Wind -> Electric -> Electrolyser -> compressor -> chiller -> transport -> pump -> battery -> fuel cell ->wheel only 25% of the generated electric is used to drive the wheels.

With hydrogen you need 4x as much electric generating capacity to get the same power at the motor for the wheel.
Such negativity Gromett, yet an alternate fuel vehicle with a longer range would suit a MoHo very well.

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Jun 12, 2016
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The other issue is the same as with electricity is the range
Carrying enough hydrogen for say 300 miles is not simple would need a much bigger tank than the equivalent diesel one and would take up a lot of space
OK for a bucket lorry etc that is not doing a big milage each day
 

Gromett

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Such negativity Gromett, yet an alternate fuel vehicle with a longer range would suit a MoHo very well.
Apart from the fact there is nowhere to fill them and it would cost more due to more electric being needed.

Not negative, practical.
 
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This is the future for trucks in the US, electric & hydrogen.


Cars

Pick up trucks

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Last edited:

Gromett

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This is the future for trucks in the US, electric & hydrogen.
I think you may be :reel:

Nikola the vapourware company who lied, cheated and conned their way to their high valuation. Including rolling a lorry down a hill to make it look like it works.

Cars
The one that went bust once already and has just had to do a reverse merger to raise finance? They started before Tesla.


Pick up trucks
Yup, these guys are the ones that are going to beat Rivian and Tesla in the pickup market? These are another bunch of cowboys like Nikola.
 

Gromett

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Charlie9038 Here is my predictions.
Trucks. Tesla, Volvo and Freightliner
Cars, VW and Tesla
Vans, Rivian and Arrival.
Pickups, Rivian and Tesla and possibly Ford if they pull their finger out.
 

Coolcats

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This is the future for trucks in the US, electric & hydrogen.


Cars

Pick up trucks
I agree Hydrogen does have a place in future EV’s in the past there were naysayers regarding battery vehicles.

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Sep 11, 2012
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Apart from the fact there is nowhere to fill them and it would cost more due to more electric being needed.

Not negative, practical.
My brother has a Land Rover discovery sport that’s both petrol and electric. It manages at best a grand total of 27 miles on electric. Yes 27 miles, that’s it, run out, empty. It only manages this if he makes it use petrol until he’s on flat roads. Of which there are very few around here.
You seem to think or want that the only future fuel is electric. Why don’t you want other alternative fuels to be successful? As far as I can see, so far electric vehicles are so far short of what ICE vehicles can do it’s embarrassing that you think they are in any way at all better. In fact never mind better electric vehicles are not even as good as vehicles using propulsion first used over 100 years ago.
I had a really good look around a Tesla a couple of days ago. Honestly, it was quite probably the worst built modern car I’ve seen, bar none.
I’ve literally just an hour or so ago watched a YouTube program about a steam powered truck. It could go 30 miles before needing water. That’s 3 miles further than my brothers disco. Hmm progress eh!!!
 

Gromett

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My brother has a Land Rover discovery sport that’s both petrol and electric. It manages at best a grand total of 27 miles on electric. Yes 27 miles, that’s it, run out, empty. It only manages this if he makes it use petrol until he’s on flat roads. Of which there are very few around here.
You seem to think or want that the only future fuel is electric. Why don’t you want other alternative fuels to be successful? As far as I can see, so far electric vehicles are so far short of what ICE vehicles can do it’s embarrassing that you think they are in any way at all better. In fact never mind better electric vehicles are not even as good as vehicles using propulsion first used over 100 years ago.
I had a really good look around a Tesla a couple of days ago. Honestly, it was quite probably the worst built modern car I’ve seen, bar none.
I’ve literally just an hour or so ago watched a YouTube program about a steam powered truck. It could go 30 miles before needing water. That’s 3 miles further than my brothers disco. Hmm progress eh!!!
You have experience of a hybrid and you base your criticisms of full BEV on that?

ALL hybrids are a pile of crap in comparison to a true BEV when it comes to battery range. They are a compromise tech that make no one happy.

If you are comparing steam engines to Tesla's I give up.

How about you compare your Brothers terrible PHEV with a Tesla on range? How about the new Tesla Plaid with 500 miles of range?

Oh, and just to throw a bit of humour in here. Did you know it takes longer to get a steam engine up to temperature than it does to charge a Tesla. Oh and you have to wait for the coal man to deliver the coal :p

When it comes to build quality I would take a Tesla over a Land Rover any day of the week :D :p
 

Gromett

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Well it’s going to go further than electric. Can also get water from far more places than electric.
Steam power, it’s the future. You read it here first😂😂😂

Sod the water! where are you going to get the coal? Do you have to be at home to accept the delivery? What happens if you run out of coal 30 miles from home?

Sod it, this is ridiculous I am out.
 
Sep 11, 2012
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Sod the water! where are you going to get the coal? Do you have to be at home to accept the delivery? What happens if you run out of coal 30 miles from home?

Sod it, this is ridiculous I am out.
It’s a truck. It delivers coal. I’ve 11 tonnes of it. You don’t have 11 tonnes of electric⚡️⚡️ Do you? 😂😂😂.

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Sep 11, 2018
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Way back in the 'old' days the Stanley Steamer could be ready to go from cold in just about 1 minute - and speed very near 100 mph, - didn't an American car maker reintroduce a steam car in the '60's ?
 
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You have experience of a hybrid and you base your criticisms of full BEV on that?

ALL hybrids are a pile of crap in comparison to a true BEV when it comes to battery range. They are a compromise tech that make no one happy.

If you are comparing steam engines to Tesla's I give up.

How about you compare your Brothers terrible PHEV with a Tesla on range? How about the new Tesla Plaid with 500 miles of range?

Oh, and just to throw a bit of humour in here. Did you know it takes longer to get a steam engine up to temperature than it does to charge a Tesla. Oh and you have to wait for the coal man to deliver the coal :p

When it comes to build quality I would take a Tesla over a Land Rover any day of the week :D :p
At least the panel gaps are even on the Land Rover unlike any of them on the Tesla and if he does run out of both electric and petrol I can take him a gallon to get him going. Try taking a Tesla a gallon of electric.
 
Jun 10, 2010
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That is called Electrolysis. Which as I have covered before uses VAST quantities of electric.

Wind -> Electric -> Battery -> motor. 80% of the generated electric is used to drive wheels.
Wind -> Electric -> Electrolyser -> compressor -> chiller -> transport -> pump -> battery -> fuel cell ->wheel only 25% of the generated electric is used to drive the wheels.

With hydrogen you need 4x as much electric generating capacity to get the same power at the motor for the wheel.
If we produce hydrogen with solar then does the 75% loss really matter?

5 years ago I went to TATAs active classroom at Swansea Uni, no grid connection of any sort. I was there to check out these


They had a roof full of solar connected to two saltwater batteries, it was a cloudy sunny day and these things were producing so much, they couldn't pull the batteries down enough to show us what they were producing, they had microwaves and kettles on and 2 EV's plugged into it and it wasn't making a dent.

We ve got them on the house ( but you wouldn't know if I didnt say) and our 7kw system peaked a couple of times at 5kw yesterday.

I'm no expert in this but don't we produce too much electric during the day and need to store it? Hydrogen strikes me a s a pretty clean and usable way of storing it and if we stored it in gas bottles then glenn2926 could take some out to his brother.

btw space for extra tanks on a commercial isnt usually an issue its weight thats a problem that is also a big issue with BEV trucks.
 
Jun 10, 2010
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For those that are interested here is our House with solar panels.


P1030399.JPG
 
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