Help needed re damage from skip contents

[Viennese]

Can anyone on here tell me who is likely to be liable for damage to my van caused by rubbish being blown in the storm last weekend from a skip parked opposite in the storage site which I pay for every month? I have CCTV footage they gave me but unfortunately it won't upload here. The site won't take any responsibility and I am claiming on my own insurance, who don't seem at all bothered who is to blame. I don't know who hired the skip, although I am trying to find out. so is it
1. The storage site for allowing a skip near my van?
2. The person who hired (and overloaded) the skip?
3. The skip hire company?
I can find quite a lot about skips on public roads but not about damage inflicted on private property. As you can see most of the site is now given over to container storage and they would probably be happy to see us few motor homers go as containers are more lucrative and less trouble. The site used to be Cassoa but is no longer paying for that registration. The CCTV video demonstrates that anyone who had been walking past would have been badly injured by the flying debris.
I noticed that the skip has now been changed to a bigger one and a lot of the rubbish in there now had been in the previous skip so presumably the hire company wouldn't take the old one away until the overloading had been reduced. We are now having to cancel weekends away which we have paid site fees for, as it is not driveable due to a tiny dent above the windscreen preventing it being replaced,

.

 

[wasp]

I would get in touch with the skip hire company and see if they will divulge the hirers details . That’s not good, ideally it’s the site owner who should be responsible

 

[funflair]

We had our Caravan damaged on a CL when I big pane of glass blew out of a greenhouse roof, their insurer said “act of god” so claim on your own insurance, we would have had to prove negligence to claim on theirs.

Martin

 

[7735]

As a landowner you are liable for any third party damage or injury that occurs on your property which is why it is essential to have public liability insurance. Speak to the site owners. Don’t be fobbed off.

spongy

 

[Vipar]

Interesting I will watch with interst bookmarked this post.
Sorry for your predicament ☹

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[nicholsong]

There was a case years ago named Rylands v. Fletcher, which as far as I know still stands.

It established the principle that if a person accumulates items on a piece of land and the accumulation 'escapes' and causes damage to another's property then that person is liable.

Following that principle I would suggest that the company filling the skip and not securing the contents would be liable.

Can you establish who that company is?

Geoff

 

[Gromett]

I am so sorry to hear about this, I hope you get it resolved quickly.

My only advice if you are being fobbed off is find a local solicitor who offers free surgeries. These usually give you a set amount of time for a free initial consultation. They will let you know the law, and any process you have to follow. They will do this in the hopes of getting the business.

Free legal advice on the forum is usually informative but may not give you the best possible advice. For something like this, I will even pay for a consultation with a solicitor.

That all said. I suspect the above advice is correct that it is the land owner/property management company who is responsible. If the damage is below £10,000 then it may be possible to deal with this through small claims court. But I may be talking off the top of my head there.

 

[Viennese]

There was a case years ago named Rylands v. Fletcher, which as far as I know still stands.

It established the principle that if a person accumulates items on a piece of land and the accumulation 'escapes' and causes damage to another's property then that person is liable.

Following that principle I would suggest that the company filling the skip and not securing the contents would be liable.

Can you establish who that company is?

Geoff

We are trying to find out. It may be an individual rather than a company as the skip contents included sort of household items and people are known to store their house contents in the containers during building work, university vacations etc.

 

[tacr2man]

Have you got legal cover on your MoHo insurance ?

 

[Coolcats]

Could be an act of God and no one is liable

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[PhilandMena]

I think you would struggle to prove negligence if seeking compensation for your loss under another persons duty of care.
If you insurance company has agreed to arrange for the repair, I suggest this is your best way forward.

 

[Viennese]

Have you got legal cover on your MoHo insurance ?

Yes I have

 

[Viennese]

I think you would struggle to prove negligence if seeking compensation for your loss under another persons duty of care.
If you insurance company has agreed to arrange for the repair, I suggest this is your best way forward.

Happy to do that but with £300 excess to pay plus lost campsite fees and perhaps lost ferry return booking as though I would like some compensation!!! It has also been suggested that the van will be hard to repair and take a long time because the damage is over a structural seam on the high top. Waiting to hear more on that one.

 

[DBK]

Very sorry to hear about this Catherine. . I'm not sure Act of God can stick as the storm was forecast and there are nets you can put over skips to stop just such incidents as this. The hire company must have them for transporting full skips.

However, whoever hired the skip might claim either the rubbish which hit your van wasn't put in the skip by them, but a fly tipper or the damage was caused by something which didn't come from their skip. They could wriggle out of responsibility but you could argue the skip not having a net on it was the cause.

 

[SteveandSue]

Don't see how it can be an act of God?
Someone put the skip there. Someone allowed/agreed to it being put there. Someone decided not to Net over the contents with clear forecast warnings of high wind on every news/social media - regardless of forecast there is a responsibility to ensure the rubbish/contents are safe -and not cause damage/harm.
Best of luck sorting it out seems a bit complicated -
Seems you have a considerable claim for damage and loss and the advice of seeking legal help seems a good idea?

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[irnbru]

You must be gutted and annoyed. I know I would be. I think Id have another go at the site owners for cost.

 

[Diabalo]

I had similar a couple of years ago, neighbours shed roof got ripped of in the wind and damage some roof tiles and guttering, it was classed as act of god and I claimed on my insurance and the neighbour paid the access but he didn't have to.

 

[PhilandMena]

Happy to do that but with £300 excess to pay plus lost campsite fees and perhaps lost ferry return booking as though I would like some compensation!!! It has also been suggested that the van will be hard to repair and take a long time because the damage is over a structural seam on the high top. Waiting to hear more on that one.

If I was in your position I would be very unhappy about this situation, after all you have not done anything wrong ! The thing is, for you to recover losses over and above what the insurance company provides is going to cost you money, time and effort and you may have to convince a court, beyond a reasonable doubt, that another party was aware a loss could be caused to another person when loading the skip or leaving it as it was. This may be difficult and costly. You could try and get resolution through a gentleman's agreement, hoping the other party (if you can identify them) accepts some liability and if not I fear you will just have to accept this is as good as it's going to get. Best of Luck.

 

[audlin]

Sorry to hear this, Catherine Viennese, and hope you get it all sorted without too much hassle and expense.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

I had similar a couple of years ago, neighbours shed roof got ripped of in the wind and damage some roof tiles and guttering, it was classed as act of god and I claimed on my insurance and the neighbour paid the access but he didn't have to.

I had the same, except it was the neighbours huge trampoline that came flying over, destroyed several roof tiles, smashed the kitchen window and then wiped out a few tiles on my other neighbours house before landing in a crumpled heap between us.

He came round enquiring whether we had seen the roof of his wendy house which was missing. Our reply, never mind your wendy house look what your trampoline has done! (Insert a few expletives in that last sentence for a more accurate sentiment). He hadn't even noticed it was missing.

I was right peed off because the storm was forecast and he'd made no effort to secure it, thinking the weight of it would hold it down. I had to claim off my insurance - and he didn't offer to pay the excess. ?

He's since moved and took his replacement trampoline with him, thankfully.

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[TheBig1]

I have some experience with this having run a building firm. When renting a skip you need to have liability insurance in place as a business

I would tell the site you are holding them liable for the damage and compensation. They won't like it and if the skip was put there for a customer who loaded it will pass it onto them to protect themselves. Otherwise they are liable

 

[GMLS]

If I was in your position I would be very unhappy about this situation, after all you have not done anything wrong ! T

Unfortunately not going anything wrong is no guarantee of someone else taking responsability. We've incurred £1000's worth of damage to a fence and classic beetle (written off) and a classic caravan (not insurred as off the road) due to a large tree branch owned by the NT falling across them. We had even warned them the tree did not look healthy but their insurers say they are not liable and CEO etc not interested. We've ended up claiming on our own insurances where we have them, but already its clear our premium are going to go up considerable for years across all vehicles

My sympathies

 

[Barclaybasher]

Unfortunately not going anything wrong is no guarantee of someone else taking responsability. We've incurred £1000's worth of damage to a fence and classic beetle (written off) and a classic caravan (not insurred as off the road) due to a large tree branch owned by the NT falling across them. We had even warned them the tree did not look healthy but their insurers say they are not liable and CEO etc not interested. We've ended up claiming on our own insurances where we have them, but already its clear our premium are going to go up considerable for years across all vehicles

My sympathies

If you contact your insurers they should declare it a 'no fault' claim and should not load your premiums. Get it in writing - I did with an RTC and was not penalised on renewal.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Viennese - Wow, that is serious damage. As the claim has been made to your vehicle insurer, it is up to them to decide whether to pursue a claim against the storage site owner to recoup their outlay.

That leaves your uninsured loss including the £300 excess, and other consequential financial loss and out-of-pocket expenses. Your legal expenses cover may assist you to recover your uninsured loss from the storage site owner.

The first thing I would want to see is the storage contract T&Cs. It is basically a contract of bailment. I would want to check the clause that excludes or limits liability of the storage site owner. If it is unreasonable, the exclusion clause can be classed as an unfair contract term and therefore legally unenforceable against you as a consumer. In that situation the storage site owner can be sued for damages and a defence that relies on the exclusion clause should fail. You could expect a District Judge would be sympathetic to you as an innocent consumer.

The next question would be whether the site owner hired the skip, or whether it was hired by someone else. If the skip hirer is a third party you may have no legal recourse against the site owner.

Assuming that the skip was hired by the storage site owner, at common law the storage site owner's primary duty is to take care of your goods. The standard of care depends on the circumstances, but as your PVC is valuable and you are paying for storage, they should take reasonable care of your PVC at least. Arguably they have failed to do so.

This is a useful reference for the law on bailment especially the obligations of the bailee (storage site owner) if you scroll down.

THE LAW OF BAILMENT - LEXBIBLIO

Bailment The essence of bailment is the possession of goods by a person, a bailee,without his simultaneous holding of the immediate reversionary interest in the goods. It does not follow, however, that all possessors are bailees, or at least bailees in any real sense of the term. Nor indeed does...

www.lexbiblio.co.uk

 

[PhilandMena]

Who would pay for this to be resolved in a court ? How much would it cost I wonder if the case was won or lost ?

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[Coolcats]

If you contact your insurers they should declare it a 'no fault' claim and should not load your premiums. Get it in writing - I did with an RTC and was not penalised on renewal.

That sounds reasonable

 

[SpeedyDux]

Who would pay for this to be resolved in a court ? How much would it cost I wonder if the case was won or lost ?

Your first port of call for a small claim is this:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27

The main principle is that the loser does not have to pay the winner's costs so that tends to make it uneconomic to be represented by your solicitor. It's suitable for DIY claims, as a litigant in person, because the risk of having to pay the other side's costs is negligible as long as you conduct your case in a reasonable manner.

 

[Anthea M]

Happy to do that but with £300 excess to pay plus lost campsite fees and perhaps lost ferry return booking as though I would like some compensation!!! It has also been suggested that the van will be hard to repair and take a long time because the damage is over a structural seam on the high top. Waiting to hear more on that one.

Catherine sorry to see the damage to your van.
Thank goodness you weren’t driving when it happened!
Take care and I hope you can resolve ASAP.

 

[Spriddler]

Don't see how it can be an act of God?
Someone put the skip there. Someone allowed/agreed to it being put there. Someone decided not to Net over the contents with clear forecast warnings of high wind on every news/social media - regardless of forecast there is a responsibility to ensure the rubbish/contents are safe -and not cause damage/harm.

Especially since the hirer was negligent in over-filling the first skip necessitating it being changed for a larger one.
Unfortunately the Court will dispense the law, not fairness.
Rotten luck.

 

[PhilandMena]

Your first port of call for a small claim is this:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27

The main principle is that the loser does not have to pay the winner's costs so that tends to make it uneconomic to be represented by your solicitor. It's suitable for DIY claims, as a litigant in person, because the risk of having to pay the other side's costs is negligible as long as you conduct your case in a reasonable manner.

I had a quick look at this and found this, amongst other stuff.

Check if you can make a small claim
You can make a small claim for up to £10,000 if you have a problem with something you’ve paid for - like poor service or a faulty product. You can also make a small claim if you’ve paid for a service or product you haven’t received. You must make your claim within 6 years of when you bought it.

Check if you can make a small claim
You can make a small claim for up to £10,000 if you have a problem with something you’ve paid for - like poor service or a faulty product. You can also make a small claim if you’ve paid for a service or product you haven’t received. You must make your claim within 6 years of when you bought it.

Check the cost of making a claim
It might not be worth making a claim if it’s going to cost you almost as much as you’re claiming.

You’ll have to pay a fee to make a claim - the amount depends on how much you’re claiming. You might also have to pay other fees as your case progresses. Check the court fees on GOV.UK. If you win your case, you might get these back from the other side. If you lose, you might have to pay their fees.

Not something I would want to be confronted with. I do hope it gets resolved without having to go to court.

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