Grey water tank freezing - heater options

D

DCnHH

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Hi all,

we have a new Pilote P740C and are getting ready for winter in the French Alps. We have seen somewhere (in one of the myriad of forums on the web) that you can install a heating element that can be set to come on at 2/3 degrees and hold the tank at that temp. Anyone had experience with such a thing? Do they 'know' when the tank is empty and not switch on?
 
A company called Cak Tanks make them I believe. But though they might stop the water in the tank freezing it probably won't stop the waste tap and any pipe leading to the tap freezing. I guess you could add a lot of insulation around the tap to try and avoid this.

Alternatively, leave the tap open and drain into a bucket.
 
I thought Pilote's were winterised. The tank heaters are normally thermostatically controlled but they zap quite a lot of power only really usable on EHU. Best solution is build an insulated enclosure around the tank and take a feed off the heating to it.
 
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I fitted Cak Tanks tank heaters to our Autosleeper. Both tanks were underslung, I also insulated both tanks and insulated the external pipe work with waterproof pipe insulation.
You can also get heater elements for external pipes including the drain pipe but I didn’t fit these.
The heaters are thermostatically controlled and shut themselves down if they are not in water
The positives are that neither tank or pipe work froze in temperatures of - 20 c
Not so the tap though, that needed warm water poured over it occasionally so that it would let the water out!
But they drain the batteries quickly. Luckily we had 3 x 110 ah batteries and plenty of solar so as long as we used them and water sparingly we were fine
The best alternative though is to use them when on EHU.

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I have blown air diesel hetiing with a bit of ducting I can make anything frost proof
Bill
 
I think you may be worrying unnecessarily. I think the mass of (polluted) water water in a waste tank is unlikely to freeze in a winterised van.
 
two said:
I think you may be worrying unnecessarily. I think the mass of (polluted) water water in a waste tank is unlikely to freeze in a winterised van.
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Normally I would say someone is worrying needlessly buy the OP is spending time in the winter in the Alps, so can understand his concern.
 
DCnHH said:
Hi all,

we have a new Pilote P740C and are getting ready for winter in the French Alps. We have seen somewhere (in one of the myriad of forums on the web) that you can install a heating element that can be set to come on at 2/3 degrees and hold the tank at that temp. Anyone had experience with such a thing? Do they 'know' when the tank is empty and not switch on?
Click to expand...
A new Pilote doesn't have the tank and pipework in a heated double bottom? Dearie me.. my 2006 RMB does so appears that Pilote gained swfa info on how to build a moho properly on good construction from buying RMB. Thank goodness I listened to @Snowbird !

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Robin McHood said:
A new Pilote doesn't have the tank and pipework in a heated double bottom? Dearie me.. my 2006 RMB does so appears that Pilote gained swfa info on how to build a moho properly on good construction from buying RMB. Thank goodness I listened to @Snowbird !
Click to expand...

There lies the problem. I hear of people paying a small fortune for a Pilot badged up as an RMB. The only resemblance is the RMB stickers they put on the Pilot. Why Pilot decided to buy a premium brand like RMB that was respected throughout Europe as one of the finest motorhomes ever built and then reduce the quality I will never understand. RMB were building motorhomes with inboard insulated and heated tanks as standard equipment almost 30 years ago and a few were prepared to pay the price for the quality build. Had Pilot kept the flagship brand there would always be customers prepared to pay for the best that money could buy. Now, people are paying a premium price, but not getting premium quality.
 
Also got a new Pilote.
The waste tank is winterised, fitted against the floor and enclosed in insulation.
Ok in storage could, like internal pipes, freeze but in use the warmth of the cab will keep the tank above freezing level also when you use it you will be putting water above freezing point into it.
The mass of water would take a long time to drop to below freezing point.
If heating the van I would not worry about it.

Pilote A class Mh's have a double floor, its the galaxy range.
Coachbuilt motorhomes like the Pacific range are built on top of a chassis so are single insulated floors.
 
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How about these for exposed pipework. Designed as motorcycle hand grip warmers but see no reason why they should not be used on a pipe instead, just turn them on if there is a problem.
 
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Hi DC
I understand your concern we have spent a few months each winter in the alps for the last 10 years.
We have had vans with both underslung tanks and tanks berween floors.
Yes you can have problems with both. If the overnight temp drops to -20 and doesn't rise during the day
water will freeze. What usually happens is a small amount of water gets trapped in or near the waste valve
and freezes solid. This means you can't empty your tank and the valve can get damaged.
Watched a guy last winter deforsting his valve which was between the floors having with a hair dryer. The important thing is to ensure that water that passes out past the valve completely drains away and doesn't have a low point leaving water in a hollow and back freezing to the valve.
If it's really parky I leave the valve open and let the waste water run out into a bucket ensuring the water drops straight into the bucket and to be honest as do most epople on the aires.

It's no big deal
Just remember to empty it frequently because if it overflows you have your own private ice rink to break a leg on

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As above, I wouldn't bother. We spend 2-3 months skiing, off grid. You'l find that almost everybody uses the leave it open, use a bucket approach. We had a heated waste in our Burstner, but never bothered with it, partly because of the power drain, partly because of the possibility of the outlet freezing, partly because of the difficulty of finding somewhere to empty. There's always somewhere for a bucket! We learned a lot in our first season away, through observing the old hands
 
Just curious but what do you do with the bucket of frozen waste water?

Ian
 
bigtwin said:
Just curious but what do you do with the bucket of frozen waste water?

Ian
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....and make sure your bucket doesn't have ridges in it, otherwise if it does freeze, it's difficult to get it out. For the same reason, a waste master isn't advisable. You could, of course, kick it with a ski boot. but that cracks the bucket. Ask me how I know this !!

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Ian we use a horse feed bucket for a number of reasons
1) They are strong
2) They are smooth
3) They are lower than other buckets.
4) Bright colour so if it is blown away it's easier to spot/
As for the waste you carry the bucket to the grey waste disposal point
Turn it upside down and tap it on the grid in the floor.
If it's only partly frozen the water drains into the waste. trough leaving the ice on top,
if it's solid it just stands in a line next to all the others, melting slowly over the day.
Don't worry everyone else is doing the same
 
two said:
Empty before nightfall.
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Is it solid, or liquid, at that stage.

If solid, what do you do with it?

I have visions of a pyramid like pile of bucket shaped ice blocks all piled on top of one another!

Ian
 
Jands said:
Also got a new Pilote.........

Coachbuilt motorhomes like the Pacific range are built on top of a chassis so are single insulated floors.
Click to expand...

All MY18 P740's come with a 50mm double floor hence the reason why they recently dropped the lower floor onto the chassis. The waste water tank is integrated within the new floor system.;)
 
rickwiggans said:
....and make sure your bucket doesn't have ridges in it, otherwise if it does freeze, it's difficult to get it out. For the same reason, a waste master isn't advisable. You could, of course, kick it with a ski boot. but that cracks the bucket. Ask me how I know this !!
Click to expand...
how do you know this?
:D2

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We were not winterised in our last van and the mark1 bucket worked well. The Alko chassis was pretty low and I could only get a small bucket under which did overflow often!!
 
I used the bucket method in Scotland (cairngorms) in the winter with an uninsulated underslung tank and it worked fine. The bucket needs to be wider at the top than the bottom so the resulting giant ice cube falls out easily.
 
If your vehicle is a y a slight angle it's important to ensure the water flows easily into the bucket
If it doesn't and gets held in the pipe it freezes solid and forms a damn all the rest of the water is then trapped inside
 
Thanks All for the advice. We are back from a great month in the Italian Alps (not as cold in March as we expected). Went for a low tech option!! Because our dump is in the middle of the van I concocted a wee apparatus (rubber grommet, piece of 40mm pipe with 45 degree bend on one end and a bendy bit on the other end (helps direct flow to bucket). Kept valve open and used a collapsible bucket (1/2 open) under my pipe and just switched out the buckets as necessary and disposed in the waste pits in the afternoon. Worked a treat!!! Yep Rick a ski pole has the same effect on a bucket as a ski boot!

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