Genoa bridge collapses (1 Viewer)

[cruiser]

Having driven fully loaded trucks over some of those bridges , we used to hold our breath. going over them . We was very glad when we lost the contract .

 

[Barclaybasher]

The powers that be handed over the contract of bridge inspection and maintenance to a private company...
...enough said. JJ

Ave explains what he thinks has happened.

Credible explanation..........rubbish design (not enough cables) poorly built, it should have been replaced

I can't see how any maintenance would have made any difference. it could have failed at anytime

Let's hope more bridges/viaducts are checked - for design and maintenance

 

[Rob Turner]

Its been said it was a lightening strike but they are already speculating that safety is being compromised due to the financial situation. Part of the bridge was being shored up at the time.

That’s some lightning strike!!

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[Chas17]

Kipling said it in 1935

 

[SpeedyDux]

Seen lots of reports suggesting that the tower falied and brought down the deck. However the only video I have seen that shows the tower falling show that the deck had already fallen.

I thought that too, based on that fuzzy video.

This being Italy, any plausible explanation that keeps the public and media happy will do for now. Their new Government also needs some excuse to terminate the Autostrada concession without having to pay any compensation. A history of maintenance cutbacks and delays might suffice.

Who else can they blame? Let's see ... as well as the Mafia for allegedly supplying below spec concrete and somehow falsifying the sample test results, there's the Architect (he's dead so he can't defend himself) and maybe others including the structural engineer and Contractor could be on the list of handy scapegoats.

It will be a long time until the official final Report, so why not speculate away. No disrespect for the victims intended. It is a matter of concern for all MHers who will be driving across Italy's many crumbling and apparently under-maintained road bridges in the coming months.

There is concern now in France as well because their budget for bridge maintenance was slashed in half a few years ago and there is a big backlog. It was one of their top news stories.

 

[Yorick]

How terrible that people have to live being oppressed by modern technology.

I'm confused by what your implying. Is all modern technology bad ?

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[Mikeco]

Had a look on Google Earth at this bridge including the underneath from the road below and it does look a bit of a mess.

 

[Minxy]

The lightening strike suggestions might IMV not be a total red herring ... if it struck some of the exposed structural reinforcing rods within the concrete it could have gone down the rods and caused some of the concrete to be 'blown off' the steel and significantly reduced the strength of what little support was left ... I do believe in coincidences but this happening within such a short space of time (less than a second?) before it collapsed seems not to be one. It wouldn't negate the underlying fault that the bridge was in a dire state of repair though - if the rods weren't exposed they couldn't have been struck in the first place but may explain why it happened at that point rather than in the future.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

When it all settles I would bet a wedge of money that the Mafia is to be blamed for all of this,disaster. Looking at the films of the wreckage it is plainly obvious to even the most bodging of cowboy builders that you have to put at least a bit of cement into the mix to make concrete.
There was loads of reinforcing cages without any concrete at all, still attached to it. Basically the concrete wasn't concrete but weak mix cement and sand. There is specific mixes of very high strength concrete mixes for civil engineering projects. EVERY load delivered HAS TO HAVE a slump test and if has to pass or the load goes back. This was not as it should be so the original builders purposely cut a lot of corners, and being Italy, the mafia have their fingers in every pie paid for by the state, millions of lira would be saved every day, to be skimmed off

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[olley]

EVERY load delivered HAS TO HAVE a slump test

Correct but there are ways around it, when the Orwell bridge was being built using a continuous pour process, if it was too wet the driver simply drove off for 30 mins before coming back for a retest, and if it was to dry, drive off, add some water and come back. Most of the drivers owned their own lorries and were paid per delivery.

 

[Barclaybasher]

They might find dashcam footage showing the actual point at which the bridge failed............maybe in the vehicles involved

 

[Figaro]

if it struck some of the exposed structural reinforcing rods within the concrete it could have gone down the rods and caused some of the concrete to be 'blown off' the steel and significantly reduced the strength of what little support was left

You would expect it to be well protected against lightening strikes. Simple technology and very effective.

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[Yorick]

How terrible that people have to live being oppressed by modern technology.

I'm confused by what your implying. Is all modern technology bad ?

The lightening strike suggestions might IMV not be a total red herring ... if it struck some of the exposed structural reinforcing rods within the concrete it could have gone down the rods and caused some of the concrete to be 'blown off' the steel and significantly reduced the strength of what little support was left ... I do believe in coincidences but this happening within such a short space of time (less than a second?) before it collapsed seems not to be one. It wouldn't negate the underlying fault that the bridge was in a dire state of repair though - if the rods weren't exposed they couldn't have been struck in the first place but may explain why it happened at that point rather than in the future.

Lightning goes up. Not comes down.

 

[Figaro]

Lightning goes up. Not comes down

It earth's to the ground or other shortest route whenever I've seen it

 

[TheBig1]

It earth's to the ground or other shortest route whenever I've seen it

it looks like it works that way, but filmed in hd slow motion you see fingers of static reaching up to make the circuit first

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[Yorick]

It earth's to the ground or other shortest route whenever I've seen it

I'm sure I remember from school that it's not what it seems.

 

[clanjones]

Slump tests are only one of the many concrete tests taken at the point of delivery. In my youth as a bridge designer and site resident engineer, concrete cube were taken for testing on site and at the batching plant ( in my day anyway, until I saw the light financial and moved to IT!). These were then crushed at specific days depending on the criticality of the mix location. Generally 3, 7 and 28 days to confirm strength and various other aspects of the mix design.

I have seen cubes crushed at 24 hours when there were concerns over quality - concrete is easier to remove the younger it is! This relates to the UK, no experience of Italian procedures.

This was all before self certification by contractors, as with all things in life there are good and bad contractors and what I do know is that cheapest is not necessarily the best!

In Edinburgh we have recently had school cavity brick walls separating. The cause, not enough wall ties and guess what, no site supervision the contactor self certified the quality. Aye right!

I rest my case. ( End of mini-rant!)

 

[TheBig1]

in Bournemouth there is a shopping centre called castle point. The concrete used to build the two story carpark started to crumble in days. On investigation the contractor bought the cement used on the grey market cheaply. Turns out it was out of date and the wrong type. The contractor promptly went bust

10+ years later and work has only just started replacing the pillars and refurbishing the top deck 50m at a time

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[Minxy]

I'm confused by what your implying. Is all modern technology bad ?

Lightning goes up. Not comes down.

It earth's to the ground or other shortest route whenever I've seen it

it looks like it works that way, but filmed in hd slow motion you see fingers of static reaching up to make the circuit first

I'm sure I remember from school that it's not what it seems.

You're all right ... in part ... it does both!

Types of Lightning
Cloud-to-ground lightning bolts are a common phenomenon—about 100 strike Earth’s surface every single second—yet their power is extraordinary. Each bolt can contain up to one billion volts of electricity.

A typical cloud-to-ground lightning bolt begins when a step-like series of negative charges, called a stepped leader, races downward from the bottom of a storm cloud toward the Earth along a channel at about 200,000 mph (300,000 kph). Each of these segments is about 150 feet (46 meters) long.

When the lowermost step comes within 150 feet (46 meters) of a positively charged object, it is met by a climbing surge of positive electricity, called a streamer, which can rise up through a building, a tree, or even a person.

When the two connect, an electrical current flows as negative charges fly down the channel towards earth and a visible flash of lightning streaks upward at some 200,000,000 mph (300,000,000 kph), transferring electricity as lightning in the process.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/natural-disasters/lightning/​

 

[Minxy]

You would expect it to be well protected against lightening strikes. Simple technology and very effective.

Yes you would BUT if it has exposed metalwork that is not protected, such as the reinforcing rods which aren't covered in concrete, then they could be 'attractive' to the lightening bolt etc.