Elddis motorhome roof query (1 Viewer)

[raymarg]

I have a 2017 elddis encore and after discovering large blisters/bulges on the roof panel was told by my dealer that this was acceptable as the the top layer is not bonded, it 'floats' to allow for expansion as it is bonded to the side panels as part of the 'SOLID' construction.Can anyone give me confirmation or imformation that this is or not the case as this does not fit with my practical background experience.It doesn't help not having access to elddis with the same 'refer to your dealer' reply !

 

[mike mcglynn]

I know this is may not be relevant but I had a Rapido which had a roof covering that was not bonded down ,it was a vinyl type loose laid ,I found that out when I had to change a broken roof light .

 

[funflair]

I would have thought that the roof would be a composite panel rather than floating, anybody who has fitted solar panels to an Elddis should know as you don't really want them "floating"

Martin

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[Richard n Ann]

I have a 2017 elddis encore and after discovering large blisters/bulges on the roof panel was told by my dealer that this was acceptable as the the top layer is not bonded, it 'floats' to allow for expansion as it is bonded to the side panels as part of the 'SOLID' construction.Can anyone give me confirmation or imformation that this is or not the case as this does not fit with my practical background experience.It doesn't help not having access to elddis with the same 'refer to your dealer' reply !

Ours is the same, it bulges when the sun expands it, so yes it floats. I screwed the solar down through it so ours doesn't float as much now

 

[funflair]

Ours is the same, it bulges when the sun expands it, so yes it floats. I screwed the solar down through it so ours doesn't float as much now

Was there something to screw into?

Martin

 

[Minxy]

Hi Ray, from our experience with a Swift previously it's normal but can be quite concerning when you see it! A lot of MHs have a 'floating' alloy roof skin as it expands and contracts at a different rate to the sub structure so is not attached except where the roof lights, edges and joins are.

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[Two on Tour]

We have got a floater as well.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Was there something to screw into?

Martin

Not much, I used course threaded screws and didn't overtighten them. It's thin plywood underneath. They hold well enough, but don't thump them in with a battery drill

 

[Jerry13]

Not much, I used course threaded screws and didn't overtighten them. It's thin plywood underneath. They hold well enough, but don't thump them in with a battery drill

Got a new Elddis 120 , and am about to put another solar panel on after a disaster first time. Did you screw directly into the roof to fix the brackets ? Thanks Jerry

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[urban_biker]

Best to use a good adhesive like sikaflex to stick the brackets to the roof. No point in putting holes in your roof if you don't need to.

 

[Jerry13]

Best to use a good adhesive like sikaflex to stick the brackets to the roof. No point in putting holes in your roof if you don't need to.

I did , no221 and the panel came off.

 

[Lenny HB]

We have got a floater as well.

Are you trying to turn it into a toilet thread?

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[Two on Tour]

Are you trying to turn it into a toilet thread?

It was very slow coming but finally somebody takes the bait.

 

[Lenny HB]

It was very slow coming

Sounds painful.

 

[DandG5515]

Hi my roller team is the same, I have seen production at the auto trail factory, side panels are composite produced in the press, the roof panel is produced in the press without aluminim skin. When the shell is assembled onto the chassis the roof on a roll is added last. I would assume elddis solid construction is done in the same sequence.

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[Richard n Ann]

Got a new Elddis 120 , and am about to put another solar panel on after a disaster first time. Did you screw directly into the roof to fix the brackets ? Thanks Jerry

I pre drilled 3mm holes then put screws in with lots of sealant all under the brackets, think it was Sikaflex 512

 

[Geo]

It's easy sat here in my armchair criticising.
I surmise from these failing / floating panels there is an underlying failure to understand what is happening.
The key (excuse pun) is as always preparation, whilst clean surfaces are good clean is not the be all and end all when bonding plastic in any form.
All plastics are coated when made with mould release agents in order to prevent the plastic from sticking in the manufacturing process this same mould release agents also stops bonding materials sticking,
How many diy and professionally painted bumpers have you seen with paint virtually blowing off in the wind because of a failure to understand the materials your working with.
So in these circumstances we have plastics that dont want to stick and Aluminium that is by its nature a very oily metal and were surprised they part company at 60MPH Motorway speeds.

I hope you see I'm blaming human error here not the materials themselves.
Failure to understand, failure to prepare are the main reasons for failure.
That mould release agent must be chemically destroyed to succeed and that is done AFTER you have finished cleaning and immediately prior to bonding.
You dont see wings,, roofs, door skins flying of on motorways and most of those are bonded these days.
In simple terms you failed to prepare properly/ adequately

 

[Two on Tour]

It's easy sat here in my armchair criticising.
I surmise from these failing / floating panels there is an underlying failure to understand what is happening.
The key (excuse pun) is as always preparation, whilst clean surfaces are good clean is not the be all and end all when bonding plastic in any form.
All plastics are coated when made with mould release agents in order to prevent the plastic from sticking in the manufacturing process this same mould release agents also stops bonding materials sticking,
How many diy and professionally painted bumpers have you seen with paint virtually blowing off in the wind because of a failure to understand the materials your working with.
So in these circumstances we have plastics that dont want to stick and Aluminium that is by its nature a very oily metal and were surprised they part company at 60MPH Motorway speeds.

I hope you see I'm blaming human error here not the materials themselves.
Failure to understand, failure to prepare are the main reasons for failure.
That mould release agent must be chemically destroyed to succeed and that is done AFTER you have finished cleaning and immediately prior to bonding.
You dont see wings,, roofs, door skins flying of on motorways and most of those are bonded these days.
In simple terms you failed to prepare properly/ adequately

Floating skin roofs are an entirely different problem when it comes to mounting solar panels.
The roof construction in our case from the bottom up consist of a decorative covering on 3mm ply which is bonded to a 25mm layer of polystyrene which is in turn bonded to another 3mm ply to form a sandwich. The outer 0.5mm, yes half a millimetre aluminium skin and has an electrophoretic paint applied to both sides and this is only attached to the roof at the perimeters of the roof were it meets the side wall. It is further attached to the roof when it is sandwiched by fittings such as roof vents, TV aerials and the like.

Just bonding solar panel mounts to this type of roof construction in my view poses one major concern.
My apprenticeship and early working career was as an aircraft engineer so I'm more than aware of the problem of metal fatigue, especially in aluminium.
With solar panels just bonded to the floating type roof construction there will be while driving a constant movement of the solar panel as it is buffeted by airflow over the roof and this in turn is lifting and dropping of the thin 0.5mm roof skin around the area to the solar panel in my view over time may lead the aluminium roof skin fatiguing and failing around the solar panel mounts.

As with Richard (Richard and Ann) who has the same roof construction I have as well as bonding our solar panel mount, screwed them down to the plywood under the aluminium using short but large diameter course threaded stainless steel self tapping screws.

If our roof was not the construction that it is, then I would just bond the solar panel mounts as I use Sika 292i which is a super strong marine construction adhesive.

As Geo is pointing to, with the correct preparation and materials, it is very very unlikely to have a solar panel disappear off a MH roof.

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[Jerry13]

It's easy sat here in my armchair criticising.
I surmise from these failing / floating panels there is an underlying failure to understand what is happening.
The key (excuse pun) is as always preparation, whilst clean surfaces are good clean is not the be all and end all when bonding plastic in any form.
All plastics are coated when made with mould release agents in order to prevent the plastic from sticking in the manufacturing process this same mould release agents also stops bonding materials sticking,
How many diy and professionally painted bumpers have you seen with paint virtually blowing off in the wind because of a failure to understand the materials your working with.
So in these circumstances we have plastics that dont want to stick and Aluminium that is by its nature a very oily metal and were surprised they part company at 60MPH Motorway speeds.

I hope you see I'm blaming human error here not the materials themselves.
Failure to understand, failure to prepare are the main reasons for failure.
That mould release agent must be chemically destroyed to succeed and that is done AFTER you have finished cleaning and immediately prior to bonding.
You dont see wings,, roofs, door skins flying of on motorways and most of those are bonded these days.
In simple terms you failed to prepare properly/ adequately

Probably right , but i read so much on the subject and yes , watched all the videos. Done all the steps and the van lay there for nearly three weeks before we used it. Blowing gale on A9 yesterday and it was gone.
Since read lots of articles , some even saying on here that Sika 221 is not even suitable for the job.
Usually not bad at repairing most things but this time its going into a workshop , I have no confidence in doing it again.

 

[Two on Tour]

Probably right , but i read so much on the subject and yes , watched all the videos. Done all the steps and the van lay there for nearly three weeks before we used it. Blowing gale on A9 yesterday and it was gone.
Since read lots of articles , some even saying on here that Sika 221 is not even suitable for the job.
Usually not bad at repairing most things but this time its going into a workshop , I have no confidence in doing it again.

As you have an Elddis 120, you roof construction will be the same as our Elddis Autoquest175 and Richards Elddis Accordo 105, please take note of my post on this type of roof construction when mounting solar panels.

 

[Jerry13]

As you have an Elddis 120, you roof construction will be the same as our Elddis Autoquest175 and Richards Elddis Accordo 105, please take note of my post on this type of roof construction when mounting solar panels.

Already did
Will leave it to the professionals.

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[Richard n Ann]

Already did
Will leave it to the professionals.

Let's hope THEY know that they're doing

 

[Geo]

Floating skin roofs are an entirely different problem when it comes to mounting solar panels.
The roof construction in our case from the bottom up consist of a decorative covering on 3mm ply which is bonded to a 25mm layer of polystyrene which is in turn bonded to another 3mm ply to form a sandwich. The outer 0.5mm, yes half a millimetre aluminium skin and has an electrophoretic paint applied to both sides and this is only attached to the roof at the perimeters of the roof were it meets the side wall. It is further attached to the roof when it is sandwiched by fittings such as roof vents, TV aerials and the like.

Just bonding solar panel mounts to this type of roof construction in my view poses one major concern.
My apprenticeship and early working career was as an aircraft engineer so I'm more than aware of the problem of metal fatigue, especially in aluminium.
With solar panels just bonded to the floating type roof construction there will be while driving a constant movement of the solar panel as it is buffeted by airflow over the roof and this in turn is lifting and dropping of the thin 0.5mm roof skin around the area to the solar panel in my view over time may lead the aluminium roof skin fatiguing and failing around the solar panel mounts.

As with Richard (Richard and Ann) who has the same roof construction I have as well as bonding our solar panel mount, screwed them down to the plywood under the aluminium using short but large diameter course threaded stainless steel self tapping screws.

If our roof was not the construction that it is, then I would just bond the solar panel mounts as I use Sika 292i which is a super strong marine construction adhesive.

As Geo is pointing to, with the correct preparation and materials, it is very very unlikely to have a solar panel disappear off a MH roof.

I agree 100% with your fixing method for your roof,the same applies to RV EDPM rubber roofs where a thin layer of PVA glue is all that's holding the rubber on
I believe the fitting of solar systems and panels is well within the reach of DIY owners. Some times in preference to some traders
The secret if there is one is understanding the materials your working with, and appropriate preparation